The iPhone Thread !!! Update: OS 3.1.2 Out!

[jassi]

28k for an 8gb is too much when you can get the unlocked 16gb for the same price in the local market. I, along with a couple of my friends gifted the 16gb iphone to my friend on his birthday yesterday. Also the 8gb is 22-23k. This is rates from a shop called quick connect, opposite banshankari bda complex
The initial impressions are the excellent UI and the accelerometer which causes it change the screen orientation when tilted. It is definitely not over-rated for the UI, however for the features and technology it is fairly limited. The friend who we gifted was having lotsa problems with his HTC touch after he dropped it once from the stairs

Right now he is happy with the iphone's personality but soon he will learn the camera sucks, to transfer videos you need to convert them, if batteries conk you need to ship the whole phone, etc. blah

I personally use a viewty now and if you venture into the world of themes, its UI is excellent too . Its a flash UI and there-in lies the flexibility, couple that with the excellent camera, vibrating feedback touchscreen and i have a winner for me.

However both me (with the viewty) and my friend (with his iphone), have come to realise from our past experiences that nothing beats a windows mobile (WiMo) so far.
I hope google phones or linux mobiles (LiMo) come out soon and beat Microsoft soon!!

[mav2000]

hi jassi,

can we load something like google maps or a gps software on the viewty. am quite impressed by the loks and camera, but have my doubts abt the software available for this phone.

@kb100 - didnt mean that there is no software at all, but there seems to be a problem here in india, with new versions coming out and having to hack them. also the iphone needs to be hacked to get any software onto it is what i hear and that does not cut it for me. this seems to be the normal protocol for all apple products, where they try to lock in the customer to themselves and like greater control over the after market. just my two bits and i dont get me wrong, its got some beautiful hardware and an absolutly stunning UI, but i guess there are some drawbacks like any other mobile available in the market today.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by DKG

Ram I think the iphone is the answer. Its brilliant and every now and then you get free upgrades with applets allowing you to do more. I have dispelled with the need to buy CD's as iradio is brilliant. Most of the functions you desire can be added or developed. It truly is a masterpiece

@DKG, thanks for caring enough to suggest.

With due respect, I'd say that, some of us here, have closely followed the spirited growth of the smartphone, forging strides ahead, while Apple were still brainstorming their offering.

The Nokia N82 is already far ahead of the iPhone in everything except the flashy touch interface.

The iPhone is an excellent multimedia player with an avant-garde user interface, an average cellular phone and a mediocre camera, for the times.

Its camera lacks both autofocus functionality as well as any kind of flash or camera light. And a 2.0 megapixel sensor is nothing to write home about, these days.

By way of comparison, the Nokia N82 has an industry-leading 5 megapixel camera with 4-element Carl-Zeiss Tessar optics. Like a contemporary digital camera, it has a mechanical shutter for distortionless freeze-motion images and a brilliant Xenon flash.

The iPhone lacks GPS functionality and even the announced iPhone 2.0 will not have GPS hardware.
The Nokia N82's GPS has bailed me out in Pune, Satara and Munich.

As a cellphone, 3G is a distant dream for the iPhone. It runs out of steam at 230 kbps.

In Munich with Vodafone service, my N82 operated with 3½G UMTS at blazing speeds. (theoretical max of 3000 kbps).

As a media player, the Nokia N82's capability is impressive. It can even handle wireless stereo A2DP headphones.

By way of contrast, Bluetooth functionality of the iPhone is an apology. Not only cannot it handle the wireless stereo A2DP headsets, but it won't even sync with external bluetooth GPS receivers.

However, it is when it comes to third party applications that the iPhone really falls woefully behind the N82. The N82 can handle both Symbian and J2ME applications. I have oodles of them from Instant Messengers and GPS navigators to the acceleration pedometer and YouTube connectivity.

The iPhone was by design meant to exclude 3rd party software application developers.

My humble deposition is that the iPhone is no more than, a toy for the conservative consumption of the also-ran American market.
They have no clue of how savvy our expectations have gotten, in cellphone tech! One just learned that they still put up with paying for incoming SMSes!

I regularly listen to the N82's builtin FM stereo radio aboard the Volvo bus between Mumbai and Pune. My 2006 Nokia N73 and even 2005 Nokia 3230 could do that. The iPhone still has no FM radio.

To sum up, the N82 for me has been a capable phone, computer, camera, radio, multimedia player, GPS-device, internet device for surfing the web and reading emails on the move. The iPhone is best a good multimedia player and a phone.

Thank you dear friend, for suffering some of my educated disillusionment with the iPhone. Couldn't resist pouring my heart out.

But coming back to our topic, I would like a next generation wristwatch that packs the Nokia N82-like features in silicon. Having DVB-H capability would be icing on the cake. Asking too much?

Ram

[jassi]

viewty comes with the google package as lg has tied up with google for the same - so you get google maps, gmail access, search, blog, youtube, et al and you can even upload your videos taken directly to youtube

LG has also tied up with divx, so you can play divx videos. Infact divx recommends viewty on their site. Besides this you can play most mpgs, avi, etc. Right now in the absence of my car player, the viewty is my primary car video player and infact its pretty cool as the moment a call comes in, it gets routed to my car speakers and the moment call ends it automatically goes back to playing videos. Note that I have all of my music as videos (recorded off vh1 or downloaded from youtube using realplayer), but this will work if you are playing mp3s also.

Apart from that you can edit movies and photos, including the ones taken by the excellent camera. The camera takes 5MP stills and you can adjust the iso all the way upto 800 for night shots + there is a tiny xenon flash which you can use as fill light if needed. The video capture can be at 30fps for regular videos (640*480) or 120fps for slow motion capture!!

Another cool feature is the haptic feedback screen, which vibrates to respond to your touch, this makes typing and using the UI really cool and you don't need a stylus (i dumped mine on day 2 )

You can also view pdfs, edit docs, ppts, xls, etc. Besides all of this, it is a flash UI, so any flash game or application can be used. Similarly there are amazing themes available for it, some examples
original black theme changed to iphone style

YouTube - iPhone Style Testing Video - Theme Core Add-on

slide theme Slide Theme
another one

YouTube - theme "pure" pour viewty

these are just 3 out of 150 themes excellent themes I have the more you use this phone and explore the more an absolute pleasure it is, both UI wise and the great technology inside it

I would never buy an iphone, unless it came with the technology that I need. I love the iphone UI and heat sensitive touch screen though.

[srijit]

Not everyone likes the iPhone and wonders why anyone would ever use one. I prefer it because I like the features offered and the utility it affords me.
I need the internet full time. I dont want to use crappy browsers and tiny email clients.
No other phone offers me the internet at this price range. No other phone has an UI that doesnt make me want to smash it to bits. I currently use a SE w800i and I hate Nokia's menu's.

iPhone doesnt have a TON of software like Win Mobile has. The problem is that the TON of software that Win Mobiles have, does not mean that they are good. I have high hopes for the App Store that Apple will open this Summer. But because I am in India, I'm realistic and will unlock my iPhone when I get it. 3 of my friends have it and I am amazed by what they can do with it on the road. Email, chat, surfing the web, in your car, in the shop, so fast and so easy.

Divx support might sound good, but there are other factors at work. iPhone doesnt support Divx ( AFAIK ), but instead uses the brilliant H264 codec. I am not just saying this to support Apples decision. I too think that it should support more codecs. But has any of you seen what H264 is capable of?
Done properly H264 can be used to create a 50Mb equivalent of a 350Mb XVID TV serial. That is a 1/7 reduction is size with fantastic quality. Want to see a demo? Check out this site. H264 size is 100Mb, while the original source was 700Mb. Can Divx do that at this quality? No, cos I have tried.

The iPhone is also an iPod. As I have never owned an iPod, I can only imagine what it is going to be like. I wonder if it has Amarok like functionality.

The camera is a bit underspecced. 2Mp is low, but I personally dont have big problems with that. My current phone also has a 2Mp camera.

Anothe bizzare use that I have for the iPhone is to use it as a VOIP device with fring.com service. Instead of me using my computer, I can use the iPhone to connect to my wifi router and chat away.

These are just some of the reasons that I look forward to using an iPhone. To me it is an internet device that also happens to make calls and play songs. I am hoping that in the coming months more and more features get me excited. My friends have been using it from last October and they are still excited with what they can do with it.

Please note that I have not bashed any other mobile except for a bit of trash taking about Nokia's interface. Trying to figure out my mother's N72 nearly made me cry.

[jassi]

I am not denying that the iphone has gone leaps and bounds in terms of usability because of the excellent UI and some cool UI related technology (heat sensitive screen, accelerometer, etc)

And believe me it does makes you feel very happy when you use the limited features it offer, however as a device it nearly doesn't do as much as any phone which cost upwards of 20k.

My background - In the past, I have been a devoted SE user (while i was working for nokia ) and then moved on to windows mobiles (O2, samsung) I have used palm treo and have coded for the palm OS. I currently use a viewty and am very happy with it both in terms of UI and technology. I play almost everyday with my room-mates 16gb iphone which i have gifted to him. I will not discount the fact that the iphone UI is awesome!! but read below

Now with my background with phones, lets see how iphone compares

Internet - windows mobile phones do it really well and so does the viewty - if you hate internet explorer, try opera mini or firefox mini. They are all good browsers and yes can do all the shenanigans of zooming in out that the iphone does.
And yes you are correct the Nokia, SE phones don't compare, but the wimo and viewty are really good at internet and email. Install google pack and you get gmail, search, maps, utube et al and yes the UI is almost the same as iphone when it comes to these internet apps.
So if its internet you can find better phones with 3g or higher specs and you would be better off on the road than with the iphone. The iphone afaik has no java or flash support (unless it just came out) on the safari browser.

Email, chat, surfing the web, in your car, in the shop, so fast and so easy - wake up theres quite a few phones which do with this elegance on the road and no you won't feeling like smashing em cos of UI

Video codec support - most wimo phones support h.264 if thats the codec of your choice. infact most wimo phones as well as the viewty support divx, h.264, and throw what you want at em in any wrapper wmv, avi, mpg, etc. iphone is a closed system when it comes to codec support. end of story!!

iphone is also an ipod - there are much better players than ipod out there. try archos for one. and yes quite a few phones out there are excellent audio/video players. so much so that i have no qualms about using my viewty as my car audio/video source (with all the formats it supports why would I)

iphone has a 2mp camera - there are good phones with 3.2 or 5 mp nowadays. mp is not even that important. For someone who travels a lot and is quite forgetful or lazy, it makes sense to have at times a great camera on your phone. great camera is not mp, its about as close to a real camera in terms of picture quality that matter, which may involve manual/auto focus, macro mode, iso settings, fill flash. iphone has none, viewty has em all and so do most WiMo phones. besides the iphone camera does not take videos, forget recording frame speeds and few frill features which other phones offer.

voip device - most phones come with skype today and the iphone isn't the first to do that.

There are so many other things that are missing on the iphone. I am not an iphone hater, i just wish that it could do more. I have played around with an iphone and love the UI to bits, but it has serious limitations for a user like me, and for most people who have used a phone that costs more than 20k+. I am seriously waiting for the iphone 2 and hope that apple makes it do much more things which bring it at par with the average expensive phone available today. Yes what apple does do best is market the iphone to the average user and that is first place where they win handsdown, the 2nd being the excellent UIs they create!!

PS - i work for a large company which has tied up with apple to improve the iphone for office productivity (read vpn client and yes i am part of that team) Apple iPhone Enterprise-ready with Cisco VPN - The Platform: The Official Cisco Blog
The moment the iphone becomes more productive it is going to be provided as a choice for corporate phone in my office to work on the move. The current timeline seems to be sometime in q4 2008.

I am sure if the iphone hardware 2 and software 2.0 can do more, i will buy one even if it is 40k that shows how much i like the UI

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by ram

The iPhone was by design meant to exclude 3rd party software application developers.

This is not true, Apple has released a ground breaking SDK for iPhone which has been the most talked about SDK (what's new) in the world since a month.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This is not true, Apple has released a ground breaking SDK for iPhone which has been the most talked about SDK (what's new) in the world since a month.

With due respect, I consider this as a damage control measure necessitated by the obvious 'mistakes' made earlier during conceptualization!

[Ram]

Right on @anupmathur.

Apple was shocked by market demand into releasing their SDK to 3rd party developers. Flak would have killed the iPhone stillborn otherwise! Did the iPhone ever have the equivalent of
http://forum.nokia.com?
Probably just about there today, if that!

It was never Apple's native style nor was it ever their strategy to let 3rd party developers profit from their platform.

BTW, that is the key reason why IBM's PC platform stole an early and decisive march over the Macintosh -- Apple naïvely thought they'd do everything themselves.
Ram

[Samurai]

Ram, Anup,

I know you guys have logged lot more miles than my two decades in the industry. But, have you actually seen the presentation here: Apple - QuickTime - Apple March 6 Event

My company has never used Macs and never developed anything for Macs, I don't even own an iPod. So, I have no soft corner for Apple products.Yet, few weeks back my boss declared that we need to start looking into iPhone based developments, he said it is possible everybody will switch into iPhone, which I found ludicrous. He said he was blown away by the new SDK, and that got me really wondering. He is a 1975 batch IITian with more than 3 decades of industry experience at every corporate level in every platform starting from Mainframes. You can't impress him easily.

Therefore, I too saw the presentation. Well, I am also blown away. The new SDK is so revolutionary, I went weak in the knee. If you have already seen the presentation and then making this statement, then I don't know what to say.

[srijit]

Jassi, I forgot to mention a few points. First off, it was just my opinions and it might be in no way the right one. The only thing I know is that I can find no faults with the iPhone. Other phones might have better options but they still dont mean anything to me. That might be hard to understand, but there is nothing I can do about that.

Internet - I live in Trivandrum and I dont think I am going to experience 3G speeds anytime soon. My experiences with my friends iPhone were with the wifi at our houses and Airtel EDGE on the road. I liked what I saw.

Video Codecs - I am sure that many phones support H264 codecs. I just love the iPhones screen and also the ease of use. I have also heard that TMPC (?) player is in the works for iPhone and that should solve the codec crunch.

iPod - The point was that I wouldnt have to carry a 2nd device. I currently listen to music on my old SE w800i, and I would like to have some intelligent playlists like Amarok has. I was just wondering alound whether this would meet my expectations

Camera - 2Mp is low. The camera features are bland. But people are already using the SDK to create camera apps. It wont be a big deal and I am sure that the pics taken on the iPhone would just be for novelty.

Video Recording - Currently not possible. Maybe someone will release a recorder.

VOIP - Ah, but I dont want to use skype. I prefer voipbuster, to make unlimited calls to the US, UK and Australia. Skype is costlier for PC to phone calls. Plus fring.com supports skype too, I think.

Samurai san, your boss is a very astute man, as if you dont know that already. I too have the SDK video saved on my computer. I dont believe that any SDK comes near it. Imagine the localization possibilities

[mav2000]

Hi Jassi,

How good is the internet surfing experience in the viewty compared to the newer n series phones. also is there a voip solution on it?

[nishantgandhi]

The highly controversial Apple iPhone is finally getting a more reasonable price of GBP 169 instead of the original GBP 269. O2 UK and Carphone Warehouse who exclusively sell the iPhone in UK will be also giving GBP 100 vouchers to customers who have bought the iPhone in the last 30 days.


The new price cut of GBP 100 (valid as of today) actually makes the European version of the iPhone less expensive than the US counterpart - the price tag pf GBP 169 translates into something roughly around $330, while the US 8GB version still costs $399 before taxes.

The price drop actually makes us wonder whether O2 UK is having problems with selling their legit iPhones. Nevertheless, it's not sure whether this step will tame the black market of unlocked iPhones imported from the USA. After all, to get an O2 iPhone you have to sign a long-term contract with O2.


While the iPhone 8GB gets its numbers slashed, the price of the 16GB iPhone version remains unchanged at GBP 329.


This move from O2 opens doors to even more rumors about the expected announcement of a 3G iPhone in June 2008. The new 3G iPhone is rumored to even boast a 32GB version

(Source)

[jassi]

srijit - i understand your points mate and am in no way saying people should not use the current iphone, if it meets their expectations they should.
i love technology and the iphone is good stuff - someday i would want to use it when it meets my needs. Expecting more from apple in terms of technology and given that the sdk is out expecting more in terms of software from the general community is also normal and I hope you understand my perspective as i understand yours. peace to all cheers:

mav - i have not played around with n series so can't compare, but yes I can say that the viewty browser is good and if you use the bundled google package or add opera mini browser, the internet experience (performance and usability) is at par with iphone and other windows mobile phones. It will be better when hspda is launched in india, as of now we are on edge.

cheers,
jatin

[srijit]

nishant, all those 8Gb phones have sold out in most places They might be clearing stocks for either 32Gb iPhone or for 3g phone or both.
Also Italy is rumoured to have the first 3G iPhones, but without any carrier lockin. One of their networks get to be the exclusive seller for a few months and then after that all can sell.