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Old 8th October 2007, 01:54   #16
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Ok, here's a thing that bugs me the most. People spend a king's ransom on sound system hardware. Speakers, amps, pre-amps, the lot. One small thing they tend to ignore is in essence the most important. Your input signal.

To get quality audio one has to consider the whole of the signal chain. If you listen to mp3s on Bang & Olufson floor standers with Rotel amps, its much like drinking Moet & Chandon out of a paper cup. It kills the feel completely.

There is a significant difference between mp3 (bit rate up to 640kbps) and True HD audio (bit rate of about 18Mbps).
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Old 8th October 2007, 09:52   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinee View Post
If you listen to mp3s on Bang & Olufson floor standers with Rotel amps, its much like drinking Moet & Chandon out of a paper cup. It kills the feel completely.

There is a significant difference between mp3 (bit rate up to 640kbps) and True HD audio (bit rate of about 18Mbps).
vinee,... I simply love that comparison for quality!!!! sorry, that's in fact passion, a few steps above quality!!

in home audio i always choose to play lossless or HD.


@gill: sonodyne's products do a good job at a price that you are looking for. a complete setup with woofers carefully chosen for your room dimensions will surely keep both your ears and your wallet happy.
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Old 9th October 2007, 01:44   #18
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This question has come up frequently and been asnwered too here. You may ask again, let us see what others recommend

A few things to keep in mind:

0. Choose speakers first. Select amplifier to drive them second.

1. At this budget, do not buy seperate pre-amplifier etc. Get a good quality integrated amplifier.

2. Avoid Indian builders/assemblers. Just say NO. They simply cannot match the price-performance-quality triad of Chinsese/Malaysian/Thai companies or firangi companies, no matter what they boast in media or internet.

2. Where cables are concerned, the proper gauge and termination/connection is all that matters. Do not waste money.

3. If your PC has s/PDIF out, try using that as source with Foobar player. ASIO etc. Don't really need a dedicated CDP.

4. Pay attention to equipment setup and room treatment. Might make a pleasant difference.

5. Numbers and specification mean very little. Media reviews (stereophile) mean even less. Audition a variety of equipment in realistic conditions, and trust your own ears.

6. Listen to the music. Do not listen to the dealer. Just tell them to shut up.

Last edited by SuperSyn : 9th October 2007 at 01:47.
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Old 9th October 2007, 14:46   #19
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Hi Supersyn,
Great inputs thanks a lot man!Few querries though cropped up in my mind!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post

0. Choose speakers first. Select amplifier to drive them second.
Should n't it be otherway around,loke what are my requirement in terms of power,quality,sound reproduction and room space available.then chalk down the power needs or does it goes hand in hand for speaker and power matching!!!

2. Avoid Indian builders/assemblers. Just say NO. They simply cannot match the price-performance-quality triad of Chinsese/Malaysian/Thai companies or firangi companies, no matter what they boast in media or internet.
Any Bad exp or what?Else plz mention few names that are available in this price range!!As it ease out my difficulty,though i have read in the forum(Link u mentioned) Indain brand like Norge,Torvin,AP are doing great job!
2. Where cables are concerned, the proper gauge and termination/connection is all that matters. Do not waste money.
Very true!!Got ur point

5. Numbers and specification mean very little. Media reviews (stereophile) mean even less. Audition a variety of equipment in realistic conditions, and trust your own ears.
6. Listen to the music. Do not listen to the dealer. Just tell them to shut up.
Best peice of advice!!!
Friends after reading few articles and internet sites, i come to realize that room dimensions plays a role in over all sound exp when it comes to loudspeakers as one has to maintain a proper distances between the drivers and listners.My room stands at 20feet*18feet.
which i think is small and have to change alot to place those big drivers(3'-5' tall)in the room.
I was looking for floorstanding cause of by low frequncy needs,,as i had a misconception that floor standers delivers great low frequency as in comparision to small sleakers.Is my misconception right or wrong???
Considering my room size shouldn't i look around for good bookself speakers(8") for good sound reproduction at low aand moderate voulems!!!
Plz advice!!!
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Old 10th October 2007, 21:48   #20
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Hello Gill

1. This is mostly a philosophical opinion, because ultimately the amp+speaker have to gel together. However, the reason I prefer to 'choose' speakers first is primarily because, for a given source, speakers make the biggest difference in sound quality and character. Most any decent integrated amplifier from a major would do the job for you, as long as you make sure it is able to supply sufficient current etc.

But yes, if you can get to listen to amp+speaker both, then that is best. Nothing like listening for yourself before buying.


2. The reason why Indian brands are praised at that particular hifi forum is because they have got manufacturers, their representatives and the dealers all posting as commercial members (and some in disguise). Clash of interest. Which does not mean that everyone is misguiding, people are just biased. It is all a bit incestous, really.

But by all means, do audition the Indian kits, it will at the very least give you some reference to compare and discriminate. This can be very helpful! And, like many people, you might like Indian equipement more than imported stuff.

For a given amount of money, you can smuggle/import an amp+speaker from Dubai/Singapore etc that will have, at the very least, better quality control, finish, internal components etc. The reason being most foreign majors make their equipment in Chinese factories in far larger quantities then the small batches of Indian builders.

These 'brand name' companies have to satisfy a more mature market (west), so, in the end, even if they charge extra for brand recognition, it usually is worth it. Of course, one keeps on hearing how so-and-so never-heard-of-before Chinese company is making good speaker at xyz price point blah blah. Then there is the DIY/kit-assembly route.

I'd much rather try the potluck by smuggling Chinese made kit then Indian. Manufacturing in India is not competetive due to various reasons, and that forces certain compromises in materials + end product.

I do not question the competence/intentions of all Indian builders/assemblers. Some might have the heart in right place, but may be let down by other factors.

However, this is just my personal opinion.

There was a thread about all this at that forum. I would say, that you open all the relevant sub-forums there, and read as many threads as you can.

Another dealer/troll infested India specific forum is hifivision.com

*shrug*

You may also try google search for other bulletin boards (AV Science for one, there are so many others), and see what is being recommended at this price point. Just to get a starting point.

Trouble is, auditioning the gear can be difficult in India.

3. About Floorstands and bookshelves, one can generalize. Here, specifications do mean something.

For a given budget, if you shop smartly, you can get a bookshelf speaker set that will have better sound (accuracy/response/control) than a floorstand.

Bookshelves usually have better sound stage. (At this price point).

The other side being that for this same price, said bookshelf usually won't have ability to reproduce the lower frequencies (that is, if those frequencies actually exist in your music...), the floorstand most likely will go deeper (bass). But is is possible that the bookshelf will have more control over its relatively limited bass producing abilities.

Different manufacturers, and their different 'ranges' of speakers may or may not employ different components, and can sound different. And some charge too high a premium for their brand name. Hit Google, read (biased) reviews, visit a few DIY speaker type sites, and try not to get into paralysis by analysis type of situation.

You have to decide what you are looking for, and how the system will fit and sound in *your* room.

Read the specification, listen to a few (at home, possible?); what can I say, this is a never ending money consuming pursuit, and there is no correct solution.


PS: I am not recommending any equipment at all, I find it very difficult to do in this case (plus you can find more focussed threads on other forums).

However, presently I am using Shure earphones which I feel easily match if not beat most high end setups, at far less price. Portable, and blocks noise too (which is a major issue for my location+travel). Of course, there are the standard disclaimers of headphone versus speakers. Might not be what you require.

Last edited by SuperSyn : 10th October 2007 at 22:06.
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Old 11th October 2007, 11:16   #21
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Just a headsup - I personally would think twice before buying any equipment which does not have an authorised or Company owned service centre in my city.

Even high end audio equipment needs service & spares and your imported Chinese amp will be a very expensive paper weight , if the spares & services are non existent. Ofcourse, There are generic service technicians of audio equipment, but I would not let one touch my high end equipment and do his R & D on the same . If you are a DIY guy with plenty of time in hand, then it is a different issue.

I have seriously burnt my hand , when earlier I had bought high end audio equipment, and then literally had to shout, cajole , convince , fight the companys top brass to send some one to repair my equipment. This was after 3 months of lodging a complaint , when the equipment still had warranty. This company had no service centre in bangalore . ( I am not referring to my current set up. , which has a company service centre in Blr )

Also IMO, quality of a product being better, only if large numbers are made may not always be true. Seriously high end audio equipment is handbuilt in small quantities most of the time.

Purely my personal opinion and others might have had better experiences.

Last edited by w 12 : 11th October 2007 at 11:30.
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Old 11th October 2007, 11:51   #22
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Check out Onkyo along with Jamo spekers.
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Old 11th October 2007, 12:22   #23
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I have a DENON CD Player / BRYSTON .5B PRE / PULZ RS 250 POWER AMP setup with locally made boxes with Bolton speakers (didn't have money for branded ones) and it sounds fantastic. No shrill highs, no floor shaking lows or annoying mids. Just balanced sound.

In my opinion, if you LOVE music, DO NOT go for home theatre stuff. Stick to STEREO...and DO NOT buy a Sub Woofer. It gives you exaggerated lows and over time you lose your sensitivity to bass.

That's my personal opinion.

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Old 15th October 2007, 15:14   #24
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Torgy yu really need to get a beter power amp and speakers (though I have not heard your speakers).
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Old 15th October 2007, 15:20   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Torgy yu really need to get a beter power amp and speakers (though I have not heard your speakers).
Yes, i know. Still haven't saved enough money for that. :(
I just wanted to convey how balanced the PULZ amp sounds.

-- Torqy
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Old 19th October 2007, 08:22   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqy View Post
In my opinion, if you LOVE music, DO NOT go for home theatre stuff. Stick to STEREO...and DO NOT buy a Sub Woofer. It gives you exaggerated lows and over time you lose your sensitivity to bass.
-- Torqy
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Torgy yu really need to get a beter power amp and speakers (though I have not heard your speakers).
I second Torgy's opinion on Stereo vs Home Theater.
Navin, what amp and speakers would you advise?
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Old 19th October 2007, 09:57   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filcord View Post
I second Torgy's opinion on Stereo vs Home Theater.
Navin, what amp and speakers would you advise?
For Torgy? He has a Bryston Pre amp - I try Bryston SS or the Consonance Tube. The Consonance is the ultimate budget tube amp and can handle EL34s, 6550s and KT88s.

For the Speakers JM Lab Chorus, Epos M22, Proac, but really DIYing a speaker is so easy (if you have access to a godo carpenter) why not try it. There are plenty of tried and tested designs on the net.
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Old 20th October 2007, 09:45   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
For Torgy? He has a Bryston Pre amp - I try Bryston SS or the Consonance Tube....... EL34s, 6550s and KT88s......For the Speakers JM Lab Chorus, Epos M22, Proac, but really DIYing a speaker is so easy
And for us ordinary mortals living in the boondocks? God knows I have never heard or seen these rare makes.. Bryston, Consonance..
Any mainstream suggestions? Or any shops in Mumbai where these audiophile makes can be seen and auditioned?
And what are prices like... remember I live in the boondocks, and purchasing power is in pari materia.
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Old 20th October 2007, 09:58   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by filcord View Post
And for us ordinary mortals living in the boondocks? God knows I have never heard or seen these rare makes.. Bryston, Consonance..
Any mainstream suggestions? Or any shops in Mumbai where these audiophile makes can be seen and auditioned?
And what are prices like... remember I live in the boondocks, and purchasing power is in pari materia.
Consonace is made by Ella. The OPTs are rumoured to be made by Stephen Tay (when I asked him he would not say, I assumed his silence to mean that the rumour is true).

The Ella Consoance is very mainstream atleast in my neck of the woods. If Torgy can get his hands on aa Bryston 0.5 why not a power amp?

if purchasing power is an issue I suggest DIY. Preamps, power amps and speakers are pretty easy to DIY and there are plenty of tried and tested amp and kits on the net.
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Old 20th October 2007, 23:22   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
If Torgy can get his hands on aa Bryston 0.5 why not a power amp?
I picked up the Bryston Pre from the USED market.
I picked up the Denon from the USED market.
I picked up the Pulz from the USED market.

I guess now you know WHY.



-- Torqy
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