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Old 22nd November 2007, 14:12   #1486
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
You forgot high ISO performance. For indoor scenarios, you need high ISO, and E510/410 do not seem to be upto mark..
ok so we kill the E510/410/330 that leaves the D80 which is old, E3 which is expsensive, or K10D which is also old and does not have a decent but cheap long zoom.

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Originally Posted by gkrishn View Post
I would say strike a compromise. Between 24mm, 2.8, IS, service ceters etc, decide which is of top most priority. Better rank them...At such wide angle, one really dosnt need a IS. .
1. 24mm
2. 2.8 and IS
3. Service center (since Oly, Canon and Nikon have one close to me)

what i found when i used the 20D and 17-85 IS is that even at 17mm I was using IS so that I could shoot at 1/15. I did not push ISO above 400 though.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 15:06   #1487
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If you do not want IS, go for the canon 40D with 16-35L and the 70-200F4 L IS
If you want IS stay away from Canon/Nikon, go for the Oly E-3.
If E-3 is out of your budget, pentax is the best option.
You will be found wanting in zoom area, but K10D high ISO performance beats E510/410. Apparently the in camera IS is also quite good.

So lets assume you need wide angle IS, I suggest
1. E-3
2. K10D
It all depends, how much do you want to spend.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 15:54   #1488
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
1. 24mm
2. 2.8 and IS
3. Service center (since Oly, Canon and Nikon have one close to me)
I considered all point equally important for simplicity.

Canon 40d with 16-35mm @ 25.6mm scores (0.5 + 0.5 + 1) = 2 points
Nikon with 17-55/2.8 gets @25.5mm scores (0.5 + 0.5 + 1) = 2 points
Oly has every thing you ask for, so it gets full 3 marks. (but is this 12-60 available today??)

As you can see other than oly no one else seems give a 24mm solution.

Either you buy that or i would sugest to go for a canon 40d with 17-55/2.8 IS or equvilent from nikon. And step back a little when you feel you miss that 24mm.

Ok, i missed the pentax. That also seems to fetch 2 points due to lack of service center(but that is last ranked).

Include the body preferance in this, i guess you should be able to decide then. With pentax and nikon having old bodies(in your words), we are left with canon and oly. You can decide on the price and availability.

Man... this is too confusing.

Last edited by gkrishn : 22nd November 2007 at 16:02. Reason: added pentax...
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Old 22nd November 2007, 16:30   #1489
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Speaking of IS does Oly IS do rotational like the Pentax K10D does?
The Pentax K10D does not only move the senser up-down-sideways but also can rotate the sensor to compensate for the slight rotation when you press the shutter button
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Old 22nd November 2007, 20:29   #1490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrishn View Post
I considered all point equally important for simplicity.

Canon 40d with 16-35mm @ 25.6mm scores (0.5 + 0.5 + 1) = 2 points
Nikon with 17-55/2.8 gets @25.5mm scores (0.5 + 0.5 + 1) = 2 points
Oly has every thing you ask for, so it gets full 3 marks. (but is this 12-60 available today??)
Ok, i missed the pentax. That also seems to fetch 2 points due to lack of service center(but that is last ranked).
Man... this is too confusing.
You think it is confusing. What about me?

1. we have not checked about Pentax service.
2. the Pentax with the 16-50/2.8 lens might be just as good as the Oly or NikCan solutions. the problem I see with the Pentax is not service but a decent long zoom (Oly-NikCan do well here with Oly having the best)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Speaking of IS does Oly IS do rotational like the Pentax K10D does?
Tanveer, dont confuse me further! :-)

The way I see it is
1. Canon's 17mm x 1.6 = 28mm = too tall
2. Nikon's D80 does not compare with the E3, D300, 40D, etc.. but does it compare favourably with the E510 or K10D?
3. Oly's E3 is too expensive and the E510 is not great in low light
4. Pentax's K10D does not have a decent long zoom (FF equivalent of 100-400/4-5.6)

Let say we keep $1500 for the lenses ($1000 for a 24-70/2.8 IS and $500 for a 100-400/4-5.6 IS) and $1000 for the body...then we have $200 for the flash and $150 for the battery pack and $150 is "overflow". Remember I have the Canon 420EX flash so I dont need to buy a Canon flash!

For $1000 we can get the Canon 17-55/2.8 IS, Oly 12-60/2.8 or Pentax 16-80/2.8 (Nikon's 17-55 is $1300)
For $500 we can get the NIkon/Canon 70-300/4-5.6 IS but the Oly 50-200/2.8 is bit too expensive ($700) and Pentax does not even have an offering here.

At my budget (D80/E510/K10D) the K10D is the best body but Pentax has no decent long zoom, the D80 might hence be my best option unless I strech to $4000 and get the E3 but then at $4000 the D300 becomes viable too! Confused gkrishn? LOL.

Last edited by navin : 22nd November 2007 at 20:30.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 21:29   #1491
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Confused gkrishn? LOL.
No... not really. As i already mentioned.... compromise. I would simply give up the 24mm req and go for a canikon solution. You miss only one factor and get everything else you wanted.

Just 4mm... In real world, I dont know how much more is 24mm wider than 28mm. Infact its about 25.5(nikon) and 27.2(canon). All it takes just a few steps backwards... i guess.

Within canikon,oly and pentax there dosnt seems to have a solution you are looking for.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 21:32   #1492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrishn View Post
Within canikon,oly and pentax there dosnt seems to have a solution you are looking for.
Navin, you're confusing the hell out of every member..must say.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 21:34   #1493
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Originally Posted by gkrishn View Post
All it takes just a few steps backwards... i guess.
A few steps back through the wall, down the cliff, into the river, off the bridge. Man, the things people do to promote Canikon...
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Old 22nd November 2007, 21:37   #1494
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Now, this will make matter more complicated for Navin.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 21:57   #1495
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Originally Posted by Rudra Sen View Post
Navin, you're confusing the hell out of every member..must say.
Now i tried to rephrase it. And failed!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
A few steps back through the wall, down the cliff, into the river, off the bridge. Man, the things people do to promote Canikon...
Well... some time back i gave 3 out ot 3 for your beloved oly. But he seems to be having some cost and high iso related performance kind of issues with it.

Ok i just went over bh photo. No system has a 24mm/2.8/IS except for 4/3rds.

For oly there are 2 solutions....
Olympus 11-22mm f/2.8-3.($ 674.95)
Olympus 12-60mm f/2.8-4 ED($949.95)

Thats about it. Alternativly you can try yoga(or some thing like that) to try to improve on your hand holdability.

Last edited by gkrishn : 22nd November 2007 at 22:07.
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Old 22nd November 2007, 22:20   #1496
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I would have voted for pentax. 50-200 is decent.
But since you are an ICEr, I really want you to spend 4000$ and get a E-3
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Old 22nd November 2007, 22:56   #1497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrishn View Post
Now i tried to rephrase it. And failed!!!
Ok i just went over bh photo. No system has a 24mm/2.8/IS except for 4/3rds.
hey sorry. i did not intend to make you guys sweat.

All this time i thought you guys were playing a joke on me and making me sweat offering up combos that i had not initially considered (like the E3) or did not even know about (like the K10D+16-50/2.8).

in the end we covered the following...

Canon 40D ($1000), 17-55 IS+70-300IS ($1500)+ BGE2N ($200) + 420EX ($0) = $2700 - sacrifice 3mm wide angle

Oly E3+12-60 ($2500), 50-200 (non SWD) $700, FL 36 ($180), HLD4 ($200) = $3580 - sacrifice $900 (more than Canon) and availability (Canon is available in India and off the shelf in the US, currently Adorama and B&H are out of stock on the E3+12-60 kit).

I called Adorama and they have no real idea when it will be in stock (they first said "2-3 weeks", when asked for confirmation they said "maybe a month", then I asked them to confirm a specifc date and they said "call back later ok").

Nikon D300 ($1800), 17-55 ($1300), 70-300 ($470), MBD10 ($250), SB600 ($180) = $4000 (Tanvir's dream) - sacrifice food on the table, medical bills, and son's schooling! :-) if I replace D300 with D80 then it is $3000.

Canon 5D ($2200), 24-70/2.8+70-300 VR ($1600), BGE4 ($220) = $4020 - sacrifice - see Nikon D300 above.

Pentax ruled out because of the lack of a 70-300 or even a decent 50-200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
I really want you to spend 4000$ and get a E-3
Why do ICEers have to spend more on camera equipment?You know before I even posted about my SLR on this forum I had talked to Rudy about this and the Canon 40D was what I had in mind. Then Rudy got me thinking about Full frame and I got greedy then I asked you guys and I went mad.

Now...one question...

If I get the Canon 40D in India I will pay a bit more (about Rs. 20-22K more) and the 40D will not have a warranty. If however I convince my boss to carry it back from the US will the system bought from B&H or Adorama have warrranty coverage in India?

Dont confuse me again! You'll only confuse yourselves in the bargain. LOL

Last edited by navin : 22nd November 2007 at 23:12.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 00:34   #1498
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You want 24mm in 35mm format.
The problem is that you will not find any IS lenses in that area. there is not enough demand in the canon and nikon space for IS in that area simple because mostly wildlife shooters with telephoto have been traditionally wanting IS.
your kind of shooter buys a compact cam mostly.
That said if yo go for an in body IS DSLR, you have the Oly and the Pentax which will give you your wanted range
Nikon and Canon will not come with an in body IS anytime soon because of lot of money invested in the IS lens space.

In the Pentax K10D space there is the Pentax SMC-DA 16-45mm which costs 350$ and is a good lens. Pentax is 1.5 crop so you have effective focal length of 25mm-78mm
There is the more expensive(1000$) 16-50mm lens, which is equivalent of the "L" space.
Pentax Digital SLR Cameras :: Lenses
You were wondering about lack of lenses, go to this webpage.

Another lens which can be used on 1.5x crop pentax is the excellent sigma 17-70 which comes to around 25.5mm at wide end.

If you go 4/3 system which is oly, you can get the 12-60SWD

Both Oly and Pentax have what you need, but India is Canikon country, and shopkeepers will give you weird looks if you whisper anything else.
There are 17-55 and a 17-85 IS lenses available.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 10:14   #1499
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Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
There are 17-55 and a 17-85 IS lenses available.
Deepak, I have admired your photos on dpreview.

As far as Canon and Nikon go almost everything is available locally.
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Old 23rd November 2007, 11:31   #1500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakvrao View Post
There are 17-55 and a 17-85 IS lenses available.
We are looking for 24mm in full frame
17mm in 1.6 crop is 27.2mm
Only if there was a 16mm wide lens which could be IS also!

So Navin ji, the confusion is over. Try the K10D(don't worry too much about long zoom for now, 50-200 should suffice. Here is the link http://www.pentaxslr.com/pdf/50_200_specs.pdf
Thats 306mm in full framespeak.

If you are not satisfied, try the E-3 and splurge.
1. Cost of E-3 body 1700$
2. Cost of lenses and accessories $2000
3. The look on samurai's face when you beat him to the E-3 and post samples : Priceless
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