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Old 2nd January 2008, 12:16   #1666
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Originally Posted by alli.gator View Post
Very true about the Carl Zeiss. The only thing is that Canon/Nikon have imaging origins. That experience they could translate to better pictures through the use of in-house lens.
What about Zuiko lens from Olympus or Leica lens now from Panasonic? How are they inferior to Canon or Nikon?
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Old 2nd January 2008, 15:56   #1667
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>>HotChillyPepper: I own Lumix DMC F50. Its an amazing Camera true value for money.

Do you mean SLR like model Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50 or is it some other model?
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Old 3rd January 2008, 00:23   #1668
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AIRC - Adorama Imaging Resource Center: 10 Photo Industry Predictions for 2008
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Old 3rd January 2008, 09:29   #1669
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For a lay user like me with mostly point-and-shoot needs, the glass doesn't really matter. I don't too much of macro and such. So I guess even a panasonic, olympus or kodak with good reviews will be on the consideration set. They were, when I was checking out to buy a semi-SLR a few years back, but finally I went with a S2 IS mainly because of the good expert reviews it got on dpreview and high user satisfaction ratings on other websites. Nor do I regret it now, it's a good camera.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 10:48   #1670
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Originally Posted by alli.gator View Post
For a lay user like me with mostly point-and-shoot needs, the glass doesn't really matter.
See, this is why I questioned you repeatedly. If you pass blanket judgement like that, it confuses people who are evaulating their camera options. Now that you admit you are lay user, and believe that glass doesn't really matter, I am satisfied.
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Old 3rd January 2008, 11:21   #1671
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Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
tanveer let me add , the Sigma 70-300mm is a tab bit slower when it comes to focusing in comparo to the Nikon 70-300mm.
Also makes a lousie grinding noise while focussing which I hate most.

I currently have the Sigma 70-300mm APO DG Macro lens and I rarely use it, more-so only for macro's.
I too have the same lens, bought it for 6K; and for that price it's a decent lens. I mostly use it for macros, but it is good for long shots as well in decent light conditions.

I am looking for a wide lens now; the contenders are Nikkor 12-24 and Sigma 10-20. Nikon costs 40K and Sigma half of it. Although Sigma is a bit wider but it is not as fast and sharp as Nikon; but it is much cheaper. Ah... decisions...decisions...

\N
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Old 3rd January 2008, 12:38   #1672
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refocus imaging is really cool! they some nice samples in their website to try out.

Refocus Imaging
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Old 3rd January 2008, 13:59   #1673
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
See, this is why I questioned you repeatedly. If you pass blanket judgement like that, it confuses people who are evaulating their camera options. Now that you admit you are lay user, and believe that glass doesn't really matter, I am satisfied.
Sure, happy to spread the satisfaction around . While I may not care too much who's giving me the lens, experts like dpreview (as well as other lay users like me) do tell me that I may be better off with spending my money on canon/nikon. Nothing convinces better than seeing a bar graph that shows one camera voted much ahead others, does it?
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Old 4th January 2008, 08:13   #1674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alli.gator View Post
While I may not care too much who's giving me the lens, experts like dpreview (as well as other lay users like me) do tell me that I may be better off with spending my money on canon/nikon. Nothing convinces better than seeing a bar graph that shows one camera voted much ahead others, does it?
See, that's the kind of herd mentality hurts forums like us, just like it has hurt photo.net or dpreview. We may be an auto forum, but many members have come to depend on the forum to get reviews on gadgets and software too. They trust opinions of other BHPians over general public. Therefore, we should we careful before giving advice.

For example, I almost don't give advice on P&S cameras. The reason being I don't know much about them anymore since I hardly follow or study P&S products. Even while advising on dSLRs, I stick to what I know and mostly talk about Olympus E-system because that's the system I know. If somebody asks about a specific Canon/Nikon lens, I can't give advice other than in general sense. I could say zoom factor is too high, but I can't say it isn't sharp enough or there is distortion. It is better if people with first hand experience give frank opinion than saying everybody buys Canon, so buy Canon. I questioned simply because you made a blanket comment on Canon and Sony. So I wanted to establish whether it is a learned opinion (after evaluating all the competition extensively) or just assumption looking at user polls. User polls indicate popularity of an item or person, it need not indicate superiority or merit.
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Old 4th January 2008, 09:19   #1675
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Agree with you on this Samurai. Maruti Alto sells more than the BMW M3, and is definitely more popular, but does not mean that its superior to the M3.

By the user poll logic, every what car query has one answer. For diesel car buy indica for petrol buy Alto
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Old 4th January 2008, 09:25   #1676
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User polls indicate popularity of an item or person, it need not indicate superiority or merit.
Is it? Would suggest you look at the poll as well as the reviews before you comment. Also, last I saw, those websites are doing pretty well, "herd mentality" or not. You can use technology (read alexa) to firm up your opinions. Over there, you can even compare dpreview with say, team-bhp. You'll clearly see that while we're an ambitious forum that's proud of it's growth, the others have already done that.

God I hate to sound like I've been wronged, so filmy, but then... Samurai, this is my last reply to your more or less personal attention to my posts. Since you insist _insistently_, I'll qualify everything I said on this thread till now, but won't materially change what I posted. No more "lessons" or "scope restrictions" from you is my humble request.

View: General users are better off buying cameras of canon or nikon make due to their solid imaging background. This imaging background gives them a better ability to convert the lens' output into a good picture. Lots of other manufacturers also come up with good cameras for specific budgets or specific needs (e.g. good looks), one is better off researching on sites such as dpreview (or as Samurai mentions - photo.net).

Applicability of this view: General users, lay users, non-experts, alli.gators and non-Samurais.

Now back to the business of having fun here...
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Old 4th January 2008, 10:01   #1677
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Agree with you on this Samurai. Maruti Alto sells more than the BMW M3, and is definitely more popular, but does not mean that its superior to the M3.

By the user poll logic, every what car query has one answer. For diesel car buy indica for petrol buy Alto
I don't agree with this analogy here. Alto and BMW don't compete in the same segment. But Nikon/Canon and Olympus does. And usually for a given set of features, Olympus is a less expensive than Nikon/Canon.So there must be some reason for Nikon/Canon being more pupular and out-selling Olympus.

\N
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Old 4th January 2008, 11:07   #1678
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Originally Posted by ntomer View Post
I don't agree with this analogy here. Alto and BMW don't compete in the same segment. But Nikon/Canon and Olympus does. And usually for a given set of features, Olympus is a less expensive than Nikon/Canon.So there must be some reason for Nikon/Canon being more pupular and out-selling Olympus.

\N
The choice of lenses in CANIKON world might be a reason. But soon Olympus (actually fourthirds format) will have enough glass for competition.

Actually i liked the idea of different manufacturers adopting a format (or a system) so that lenses can be interchanged irrespective of the manufacturer.....instead of restricting one to a particular manufacturer (or a set of manufacturers).

That's fourthirds format.

-- Torqy
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Old 4th January 2008, 11:10   #1679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alli.gator View Post
Applicability of this view: General users, lay users, non-experts, alli.gators and non-Samurais.

Now back to the business of having fun here...
I disagree with you. Actually for a advanced user and a pro user canon Nikon make more sense. Even for users with more specialty needs Canon and Nikon are a better bet.
For example, I love long exposures and high ISO photography. For me Oly system is a dead end, as its more noisy.
For a lay user who wants bells and whistles, shoots families and landscapes on holidays trip, systems like Olympus and pentax make better sense because they care capable of giving better results out of the box. For example in camera shake reduction.
In a normal environment(upto 20-30 sec exposure max, ISO 400 max) there will be no difference in quality whether the shot is taken from an Oly, a pentax, a Fuji(which will acutally give better results than the lot).
When you go to limits. For example exposures involving 30 minutes 40 minutes. ISO 1600.
Or you are looking at extremely wide angle 8mm shots.
Its at stuff like this Canon and Nikon make a better bet.
Canon and Nikon have more lenses on offer.
To the lay user who will use focal lengths from 24mm to 400mm and not go into specialist type photography, it does not matter at all which DSLR it is.
I am yet to see a guy who does normal photography and is limited because he does not own a canon or Nikon.
Infact when people ask me what camera to get for their simple holiday shots etc., I suggest a P&S like Canon S5 IS etc., or the Fuji F31fd.
However if you want to go in for highly specialist photography where you need bokeh of a F1.2 lens on a full frame sensor and go ultra wide angle, then you start looking at more established systems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ntomer View Post
I don't agree with this analogy here. Alto and BMW don't compete in the same segment. But Nikon/Canon and Olympus does. And usually for a given set of features, Olympus is a less expensive than Nikon/Canon.So there must be some reason for Nikon/Canon being more pupular and out-selling Olympus.

\N
Canon/Nikon have had the lead. If you look at the market share graphs, now Oly and Pentax are clawing at their market share. When a company improves market share so drastically it definitely means that the product is good. You do not snatch away market share from established brands unless you have a product that is good.
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Old 4th January 2008, 11:22   #1680
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Sorry to go offtopic from the discussion, but I received my "Joby Gorillapod"
Plan to do some "different" kind of shooting tonight.
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