The Digital Camera Thread: Questions, discussions, etc.

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Night shots and high ISO??? I always use ISO 200 for night shots. There is no subsitute for a tripod. Many exposures I take have duration in minutes.

Yes night shots at high ISO - with Nikon there is an advantage to keeping long exposures limited, because of amp noise but then Im sure you knew that...

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Of course you missed a fatal flaw in my argument, which I now state.
I said that in 2 years time you will have APS-C pushing 15MP with clean images at ISO 800.
In the same time Full frame will push 30MP with same image quality at same ISOs(maybe even better).

Hey, be my guest, you're welcome to pick all the holes you want in your arguments

Originally Posted by tsk1979

As for your glass, would love to see your images. The best glass I own is the 74$ 50mm 1.8, and most of my photography is done by the 18-55 kit lens.

good for you. I started my photography with a film p&s Minolta. Over the years I've bought all the equipment I want not because it makes me a better photographer (I still think that some of pictures from that Minolta were damn good) but because it helps me get the shot I want. Equipment after all is just that - equipment.
And yes, I have posted some pictures.

Originally Posted by jaibir

The problem is on lens availability with these - especially if you are trying to source them in India. Here, Nikon and Canon are the ones you'll find easily. If you do have access to US stores/sites, your options widen a lot. You can browse around a few online stores like bhphotovideo and adorama to see what system offers what lenses and decide what suits your needs.

I agree with you completely on this.

Originally Posted by jaibir

I swapped by D40 for a used D70 - mainly to get some stick time with a wider variety of lenses. Plan to use this body for a year odd before trading it in for a new one.

Good decision - the D70 is a much more capable body than the D40, 40x, 60. Although when it comes to trading it in, waiting may not be a good idea. I thought I'd do the same with my D70s and guess what a shop in Canada told me I'd get for it? $250 tops. The trade was just not worth it. I decided to keep the body and continue using it.

Originally Posted by navin

I have now realised that most of my viewing will probably be done on a big (46"/52") TV. I wont be taking prints much. Hence a FF DSLR might be be soething I will graduate too once body prices drop to about $2000. Till then I'd have to live with the 40D. You dont realise the limitations of the 40D image untill you see the images on the 1Ds.

Thanks for replying. I guess if the difference is that obvious in the way you view your pictures, FF is warranted.

[kb100]

Originally Posted by kb100

First between Prosumer Vs DSLR

Prosumer its between Canon S5 IS and the Panasonic FZ18

In the DSLRs it gets a little more complicated...

1. Canon EOS 450D - with the IS 55mm Kit lens
2. Canon EOS 400D - with the same IS kit lens from the 450
3. Nikon D60 - with its 55mm kit lens
4. Nikon D40X - With the D60's Kit lens!
And the mother of all Q's - what ZOOM lens to buy/use along with this... without breaking my back - every which way!!

Pro's/Con's ... and CONs...
Confucius Rules!!!

Guruz!!.. Help here pls.. Can you help me pick the good combination here - Money no object limited to 10- 20K here and there. I am not likely to change this for some time - other than lenses that is.

Any views on the 450D?

One thing that is on my mind is aftersales service - another Tbhpians Panasonic prosumer packed up (water fell on it) and they have not been able to repair it at all!. In fact their Delhi HO claims it has to be sent to the US for repair!

These are no longer mechanical or electro-mechanical gadgets - with so much electronics I would be happier if they had reliable and comprehensive service facilities right here in India! Am I right in assuming maybe this is where Nikon and Canon score in India as of now??

[jaibir]

Originally Posted by StarScream

I thought I'd do the same with my D70s and guess what a shop in Canada told me I'd get for it? $250 tops. The trade was just not worth it. I decided to keep the body and continue using it.

you can probably get around INR 15k for it in India if its in good shape and the shutter count is relatively low.

[Samurai]

KB, dSLRs are a money pit. Unless you are entensively using your P&S in aperture priority mode while manipulating ISO, F-stop, metering and compensation, you are not ready for dSLR.

Once you get a dSLR, you'll start wondering which lens to buy. And each of such lenses would be more expensive than most P&S cameras.

[smsrini]

Interesting project that claims to achieve 1gigapixel resolution.

Gigapxl Project

[navin]

Originally Posted by kb100

First between Prosumer Vs DSLR
Prosumer its between Canon S5 IS and the Panasonic FZ18

In the DSLRs it gets a little more complicated...
1. Canon EOS 450D - with the IS 55mm Kit lens
2. Canon EOS 400D - with the same IS kit lens from the 450
3. Nikon D60 - with its 55mm kit lens
4. Nikon D40X - With the D60's Kit lens!
And the mother of all Q's - what ZOOM lens to buy/use along with this... without breaking my back - every which way!!

Pro's/Con's ... and CONs...
Confucius Rules!!!

For the Prosumeer I'd include the Fuji as well. Fuji seems to manage the get noise down to lower levels than Canon or Panny.

Handle the Nikon D60 and Canon 450D. See which you prefer. Each of them has a handling feature the other does not and hence untill you handle both dont jump.

Kit lenses have improved over the last 2 years. Especially the APS-C lenses. The old Nikon 18-70 for example was a killer VFM lens. The new Canon 18-55 IS too has garnered great reviews (I have not used one so cant confirm).

Originally Posted by jaibir

The Sony A-300/350 have live view.

I find using live view on a a DLSR to be uncomfortable, but then I am old fashioned. I tried it with my 40D and gave up. a DSLR with a decent lens (17-55, 24-70, 70-200) just can be used in live view mode. I guess if and when body/lens weights drop and rotational LCDs become more available on DSLRs live view will make more sense.

Originally Posted by kb100

Guruz!!.. Help here pls.. Can you help me pick the good combination here - Money no object limited to 10- 20K here and there.

One thing that is on my mind is aftersales service...Am I right in assuming maybe this is where Nikon and Canon score in India as of now??

Nikon has opened up a few service centers but in A.S.S Canon has many mor centers (atleast in Mumbai) than Nikon. Another object to look at is what DSLR are your friends and relatives using. One reason I chose Canon for example was becuase I would then have occasional access to all of niece's Pro Lenses so say I wanted to borrow her 70-200/2.8 for my son's school play I could.

Originally Posted by Samurai

KB, dSLRs are a money pit. Unless you are entensively using your P&S in aperture priority mode while manipulating ISO, F-stop, metering and compensation, you are not ready for dSLR.

Once you get a dSLR, you'll start wondering which lens to buy. And each of such lenses would be more expensive than most P&S cameras.

Actually with a bit of prudence, dilligence and commom sense you will find you wont graduate to beyond 5-6 lenses. 2-3 zooms and 2-3 primes. For example on a APS-C sized system the following combo 10-20/3.5-4.5 (indoor and architechture and landscapes), 17-55.2.8 IS (geneal purpose), 100-400 (telephoto) mated to a 28/1.8 and 85/1.8 (for low light) will cover most needs.

The biggest advantage (even bigger than the difference in lens quality) of a DSLR is the size of it's sensor. In the old days we used to shoot on slide film and families would then watch these slides on projectors (my dad, aunt, and uncle were all avid photographers who used to even develop B&W prints at home). Today with DSLR, Memory chips and players like the PS3/Xbox replace this process the output of which can either be shown on a screen or large TV.

When images are blown to 40 inches+, sensor size becomes a real issue.

[kb100]

Brilliant... Thank you Navin!!

Can all of you take a lok at the Panny FZ18 and tell me how that stacks up for someone like me - As in it seems to have the 28-504mm equivalent lens - stabilised at that! ...and seems like it has the ability to experiment within limits.

IN real life I doubt if I am actually interested in anything else other than getting good snaps... The equipment is just that - equipment!


I had narowed down on the Panny till someone scared me off with their service stories. I can pick up the EOS/Nikon etc but wonder if the equipment will get outdated much before my skills catch up! (I am pathetic when it comes to being self-taught - lazy I guess. I pick learn at blazing speeds if I had someone showing me what to do!)

I am actually in dilemaS..

[navin]

Originally Posted by kb100

Can all of you take a lok at the Panny FZ18
28-504mm equivalent lens - stabilised at that! ...

IN real life I doubt if I am actually interested in anything else other than getting good snaps... The equipment is just that - equipment!

I can pick up the EOS/Nikon etc but wonder if the equipment will get outdated much before my skills catch up!

KB answer the following:

1. what are you going to do with the photos?
a) send to friends via email - think small 4-6MP P&S 1/2.5"
b) Print to 4x6, 5x7, or 8x10? - think 7-8MP sensor of 1/2" or larger like 2/3" (Fuji S100, Sony R100 etc..)
c) display on large TV think 10MP+ APS-C or larger

2. What do you want the camera for"
a. family occasions with 75% indoor and 25% outdoor (birhtdays, etc..)
b. travel and family (as above)
c. special functions like school sports and plays + travel & family (as above)
as in the previous question the more demanding the situation the more useful is a better camera

3. How serious are you about photography
a. not serious just want good fun snaps
b. somewhat serious what to learn about f stop, shutter speed etc while taking family and travel photos
c. deadly serious. want to preserve photos for longevity and develop into a good photographer.
you know the drill... :-)

You will find you will find the answer to your questions yourself.

BTW if you interested in the Panny FZ18 please also consdier the Oly 570UZ (hot shoe) and Nikon P80 (nice lens)
Olympus SP-570UZ digital camera specifications: Digital Photography Review
given that Oly will be setting up service center s in the metros to service their DSLRs maybe you will get service for their prosumers as well. Besides CCDs are not as sensitive to light as film so a hot shoe and external flash (which you can add later) will help in indoor situations.
a good review of the Oly 570
Olympus SP-570UZ - Magnificent Magnification - DigitalRev.com
a bad review
CrunchGear » Archive » Review: Olympus SP-570UZ
an ugly review
Olympus SP-570UZ Video Review - Digital Cameras - CNET Asia

[tsk1979]

I am not a fan of these super zooms.
Why?
Not because the glass is bad, but because the sensor size is too small.
Due to a very problematic thing called physics, if you have a very long range zoom on a large sensor(even APS-C), your lens size goes for a toss.
So with a big sensor a 20x zoom will rival a agni missile in size.

As you reduce sensor size, you can have smaller lenses.
for example till about 6MP Fuji had this big sensor which was amazing. But this meant they could not offer 15x zooms etc.,
With their newer sensor which is 8MP or 10MP, they offer big zooms, but the image quality has gone for a toss.

[kb100]

Originally Posted by navin

KB answer the following:

1. what are you going to do with the photos?
a) send to friends via email - think small 4-6MP P&S 1/2.5"
NO

b) Print to 4x6, 5x7, or 8x10? - think 7-8MP sensor of 1/2" or larger like 2/3" (Fuji S100, Sony R100 etc..)
YES

c) display on large TV think 10MP+ APS-C or larger
YES

2. What do you want the camera for"
a. family occasions with 75% indoor and 25% outdoor (birhtdays, etc..) The other way around - some 60% OUtdoors
b. travel and family (as above)
c. special functions like school sports and plays + travel & family (as above) LOTS of this
as in the previous question the more demanding the situation the more useful is a better camera

YES -- ALL THREE OF THEM

3. How serious are you about photography
a. not serious just want good fun snapsNONO
b. somewhat serious what to learn about f stop, shutter speed etc while taking family and travel photos YES
c. deadly serious. want to preserve photos for longevity and develop into a good photographer. YES YES YES
you know the drill... :-)

You will find you will find the answer to your questions yourself.

BTW if you interested in the Panny FZ18 please also consdier the Oly 570UZ (hot shoe) and Nikon P80 (nice lens)
Olympus SP-570UZ digital camera specifications: Digital Photography Review
given that Oly will be setting up service center s in the metros to service their DSLRs maybe you will get service for their prosumers as well. Besides CCDs are not as sensitive to light as film so a hot shoe and external flash (which you can add later) will help in indoor situations.
a good review of the Oly 570
Olympus SP-570UZ - Magnificent Magnification - DigitalRev.com
a bad review
CrunchGear » Archive » Review: Olympus SP-570UZ
an ugly review
Olympus SP-570UZ Video Review - Digital Cameras - CNET Asia

My answers in BOLD

And see how the same cameras' get balsted by different websites/reviewers! ... Makes the job of selecting very difficult.

I went P&S shopping yesterday - for my Mother - so the most basic of P&S's. We discovered that company branded showrroms always had a bias(but naturally) to their own products - So this time we decided to walk into a multi brand camera store - that way I get to see choices. They showed us a Kodak, a Nikon and a Canon. Kodak seemd the 'meekest' of them all.. Luckily I saw a comp idling away ... so took identical shots of one particularly colourful wall and downloaded it onto the system.. and surprise surprise - the kodak had the other two beat hands down - much better exposure and saturation! The contrast was brilliant as well.. the other two everything seemed pretty washed out - 'bleached' is the term that came to mind! Even my wife was surprised. Left to myself I would never even have considered a KODAK - stoopid preconceived notions and prejudices! Bought the Kodak on the spot!

So have been wondering if these shops are the way to go - at least you get to try your equipment out before buying any of it!

[jaibir]

Originally Posted by kb100

So have been wondering if these shops are the way to go - at least you get to try your equipment out before buying any of it!

Unfortunately try before you buy isnt always an option, especially if you're buying a DSLR with b&w. Most shops wont have an open sample around. The best way around this is to either borrow it from someone you know or go to a less prestigious shops that deals in used cameras as well and might have some handy for you to try.

[prashant.dinkar]

Hello Guys ,

I Know a lot of technical stuff is going on over here , saw the last few pages.... But have to post it here only , because otherwise Moderators wont approve it or Will merge my query with this thread only , so please bear with me .

Actually I am looking for some help from you guys ...
I am going to buy a Camera this weekend , I am a complete Novice regarding cams , but i always wanted to keep a decent camera so its time to go for it now.
1.My Budget is 18K. Please suggest Best cam possible in that range .
2.I will be using the cam mainly for Macro Shots and Pics of Bikes and Cars .
3. I really dont like those sleek cameras I think they are just toys please correct me If i am wrong .
4.I wanted to buy Canon S3IS but its not available now so should I go for S5IS ? But I read somewhere that S3IS was much better cam and S5IS is not worth the money. Is it true ? Do we have any other options?
5. What all accessories should i opt for ?
6. Can I go ahead and buy from Grey Market if yes please tell me some trust worthy places in delhi NCR .
7.I already got a nice Sony DVD Handy Cam so shooting video is not the priority from this cam I will only use it for still images .

Looking for your Valuable Inputs
Thanks
Prashant

[tsk1979]

Get the widest cam you can afford(wide angle) since you are going to do automobile photography.
S5Is is a more advanced version of S3IS and a natural progression

[prashant.dinkar]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Get the widest cam you can afford(wide angle) since you are going to do automobile photography.
S5Is is a more advanced version of S3IS and a natural progression

Hey ,

Can you give me an idea about the best Cam in that Price bracket and also about the Reliable Grey Stuff Shop as you also put up in NCR .

Thanks
Prashant

[NetfreakBombay]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I am not a fan of these super zooms.
Why?
Not because the glass is bad, but because the sensor size is too small.
Due to a very problematic thing called physics, if you have a very long range zoom on a large sensor(even APS-C), your lens size goes for a toss.
So with a big sensor a 20x zoom will rival a agni missile in size.

As you reduce sensor size, you can have smaller lenses.
for example till about 6MP Fuji had this big sensor which was amazing. But this meant they could not offer 15x zooms etc.,
With their newer sensor which is 8MP or 10MP, they offer big zooms, but the image quality has gone for a toss.

It is a very valid point and a gist of many DSLR vs Prosumer wars on forums.

My take on this is, Prosumers give you almost all the "functionality" of DSLR, but with inferior image quality. I have Fuji 59000 and many times I wish for a bigger sensor, specially indoors.

On positive side, prosumers are easier on newbies like me. Its easy to experiment with a single 28 - 300 lense, and quality it pretty good till 400 ISO. (Though camera claims to go up to 1600, anything above 800 is useless on this).