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Old 24th August 2009, 01:02   #16
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Sad to hear about your experience. APC is supposed to have very good service. You should have gone for Amaron or even Base Terminal tubular batteries. Exide is not so good even for inverter batteries. I wouldn't touch Amco either.

Btw instead of taking their nonsense about whats wrong, how difficult is it to check the cells yourself or in your presence, with a hydrometer??
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Old 24th August 2009, 01:44   #17
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Originally Posted by Raccoon View Post
APC is supposed to have very good service.
Well i thought so too - but the experience has been quite contradictory. I have no benchmark experience with other inverter vendors to compare too though.

Quote:
You should have gone for Amaron or even Base Terminal tubular batteries. Exide is not so good even for inverter batteries. I wouldn't touch Amco either.
Well when you buy an APC inverter, there is no choice of battery, you take what they give. In my case it was amco tubular, changed to amco flat on APC's advice.

Quote:
Btw instead of taking their nonsense about whats wrong, how difficult is it to check the cells yourself or in your presence, with a hydrometer??
who keeps a hydrometer at home But yeah the battery tech shop has demonstrated to me all that i need to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
ideally, its better to purchase the batteries yourself and get the techs to install them since the UPS mfr offers only 6 month warranty on the battery (if they supply it ) and you get a 2 year warranty on the battery if you buy it yourself. Found this out when i was replacing the battery of my dead UPS
well with APC inverter the price includes the battery of their choice (amco) and there is no option to discount the battery and get my own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Why am i not surprised?! My colleague who thinks quite highly of APC and their batteries had both his batteries replaced within a year of its purchase. Since he was charged nothing for the replacement, he thinks quite high of APC and its service. Lets see how the new ones live out their life.
Yeah i was quite relieved when they changed my batteries free of charge, only to realize now that they put in some cr*ppy refurbished ones! Tell your colleague to get the batteries checked by an independant shop for signs of failure, dead cells as well as the manufacturing date and take it up with APC while under warranty if anything is wrong.

Quote:
Personally, i dont feel that the price APC charges for their inverters is justified. Heck, if you need a pure sine wave inverter, they dont even have one below 1000 VA! After consulting some long term users, i got myself a SuKam.
Yes I am starting to think that way now. However i trusted that an expensive world renowned brand would be the only 'true' sine wave inverter out there. Little did i know that the ownership experience would be such a hassle!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
Wow! what perfect timing Jassi. This morning my APC inverter conked off and I have called the customer care. The sad part is the battery warranty just expired, although the inverter is still covered. Let me see what the service engineer says. At least I know what stuff to keep in mind if they go about replacing the inverter or battery.
Good luck dude - be careful with the field engineers (central data systems, rolex or stenta) and their advice. A few of them are cunning salesmen and will try and sell you batteries at some crazy prices. Also they might give you batteries which are almost dead and will die in few weeks. It seems warranty replacement batteries have additional 90 day warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Exide make special battery for inverters. Go for them. And tubular battery is better than the plate type.
I too hear on tubular being better than flat batteries. I am trying to get rid of the hassle of battery preventive maintenance and it seems both amco and exide don't make those. The panasonic and quanta batteries are sealed maintenance free (smf), so no emissions and no preventive maintenance and also cheaper, however both are flat. I am not sure if there are any smf tubular batteries.


Here is an email, I sent to one of their escalations. No response yet.

Quote:
Hi,

This is regarding my APC inverter Bi1000i serial number BB0*****.
At the outset, I would like to say that I do believe that APC makes good quality products and I have more than once paid the premium APC charges over their competitors like Su-kam, etc. I have on multiple occasions recommended APC products and most of my family and friends have bought an APC product on my recommendation.

However, somewhere along the line I feel, APC has lost the plot with poor service and too much outsourcing to inept providers.
In my case specifically it has been a very painful experience owning the Bi1000i. I have no complaints against the quality of the product but the service experiences leave a lot to be desired. I encourage you to read the detailed post on my entire experience on a public forum here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadgets-computers-software/63989-apc-inverter-good-products-but-bad-service.html

The specific issue, I am facing for the last 1 year has not been fixed and my warranty has expired in Mar 2009. In the last 1 year, I have been continuously complaining about low backup times (a few mins at best with 75% load) and then the inverter would not turn on. This was verified by APC field engineers and initially thought of to be an inverter issue. The inverter was replaced and the problem still persisted. This was followed by a battery replacement (amco 80AH flat) by APC engineers from Central Data Sytems.
After battery replacement, over the past 2-3 months, I have noticed the problem is still present. On opening a case again this month, an engineer was sent by APC (from stenta systems), who correctly identified the problem as a pair of bad replacement batteries given to me just before my warranty expiry. He also mentioned this in most cases is a manufacturing defect, however in the absence of warranty, I need to shell out 13-14k for new batteries.
Stenta people also called me and told me I have the incorrect low life flat batteries when ideally I should have tubular batteries. This is contrary to initial confusion when I purchased in Mar 2007 and was given tubular batteries with the unit and APC advised me on email to change them to flat batteries. I had to haul the tubular batteries to an APC recommended amco dealer then and get them replaced with flat batteries.
With respect to my current problem, after a lot of calls with APC and Stenta, another engineer has now been sent in, who claims the batteries are ok and just need to be boost charged. I feel this was just done to negate the previous engineer from Stenta who said in his report the batteries have dead cells and manufacturing defect.

This time around, I personally carried the batteries to known authorized battery dealer in koramangala who clearly told me that the batteries would not respond to boost charging as 1 cell in each battery is dead. This means instead of the needed 24 volts, the batteries are only holding 20v across them. Hence they are not going to hold charge or give enough backup. Looking at the battery serial numbers and markings, he clearly identified the batteries as being dated mar 2008 and sep 2007.

My questions are
1)Why was my problem not correctly identified as a battery issue for so long. Many months of my warranty period were wasted due to mis-diagnosis.
2)When my warranty was just about to expire, I had to continuously push APC and finally the batteries were replaced with refurbished old batteries. Why was I not given new replacement batteries?
3)Does APC or their battery partner (amco), perform any quality checks on the batteries being given out during warranty replacement?
4)Why have the warranty replaced batteries died in 3-5 months? And why do these batteries have dead cells? Why did the installation engineer from Central Data Systems not identify the dead cells in the batteries during installation?
5)Does APC understand that an inverter is not like a tv or microwave which is used daily but is used only under emergency power failures? If yes, then why is APC and field engineers telling me that I should have diagnosed the problem myself immediately after warranty replacement?
6)Does APC understand that power failures especially of the long-time frame are not that frequent? If yes, then how does APC expect me to validate if the warranty replacement batteries have dead cells or are not giving enough backup?
7)Stenta calls and tells me that batteries will fail in few months, if I don’t use them daily. Does APC expect me to switch off my mains daily and see if inverter is giving enough backup. Can APC put engineers at my house for 4 hrs to see if inverter is giving enough backup?
8)Are warranty replaced batteries expected to fail in few months? The authorized battery dealer tells me 1.5-2yrs is the life of a new battery and not 3-6 months.
9)Does APC have a strong pre and post sales customer satisfaction process in place? Does not look like with my long history of issues from day 1.

I would appreciate an answer to above questions and a fair assessment and resolution of my problems. I seriously don’t think I deserve such treatment from a global company like APC, especially after spending 25k on the Bi1000i which is twice the amount APC’s local competitors provide hassle free inverters for!!

Also encourage you read the post on public forum at regarding my various issues with APC http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadgets-computers-software/63989-apc-inverter-good-products-but-bad-service.html

Thank you for the support.

Regards,

Last edited by jassi : 24th August 2009 at 01:51.
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Old 24th August 2009, 07:06   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
Why am i not surprised?! My colleague who thinks quite highly of APC and their batteries had both his batteries replaced within a year of its purchase. Since he was charged nothing for the replacement, he thinks quite high of APC and its service. Lets see how the new ones live out their life.

Personally, i dont feel that the price APC charges for their inverters is justified. Heck, if you need a pure sine wave inverter, they dont even have one below 1000 VA! After consulting some long term users, i got myself a SuKam.

APC dont have batteries. Mine came with Amraon. Service was good and prompt. Been using it for 2 years plus.

I guess the local a.s.s. guy is to be blamed. Did you escalate the issue?
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Old 24th August 2009, 09:05   #19
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I have also heard that APC have an immediate replacement policy. In my experience with UPS's APC are good but not as reliable as some Indian brands. But then the replacement policy!!
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Old 24th August 2009, 09:56   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
APC dont have batteries. Mine came with Amraon. Service was good and prompt. Been using it for 2 years plus.

I guess the local a.s.s. guy is to be blamed. Did you escalate the issue?
I am not sure about which is the brand of battery which was supplied to my friend, but i shall check with him.

As i had mentioned, since they replaced the batteries free of cost, my friend was not too concerned. Waiting with fingers crossed to see if it repeats.
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Old 24th August 2009, 10:08   #21
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Jassi

Since you are in Bangalore, I recommend you go down to their office (used to be on Lavelle Road) and ask to meet one of their managers in person. You may get your problem resolved immly.
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Old 24th August 2009, 17:42   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jassi View Post
Well when you buy an APC inverter, there is no choice of battery, you take what they give. In my case it was amco tubular, changed to amco flat on APC's advice.
Hmm... if I were you, I'd have dropped the idea about APC if they foist an Amco on me (unless I know other customers who are satisfied with it). Very bad experience with their bike batts.

Quote:
who keeps a hydrometer at home But yeah the battery tech shop has demonstrated to me all that i need to know.
Me does.

Quote:
I too hear on tubular being better than flat batteries. I am trying to get rid of the hassle of battery preventive maintenance and it seems both amco and exide don't make those. The panasonic and quanta batteries are sealed maintenance free (smf), so no emissions and no preventive maintenance and also cheaper, however both are flat. I am not sure if there are any smf tubular batteries.
We have a SuKam with Amaron batts. They are not sealed but require very little "maintanence". I'd say less than even once a year.

Last edited by Raccoon : 24th August 2009 at 17:45.
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Old 25th August 2009, 16:36   #23
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Update from my side. The APC service engineer had come to my place and found the issue to be a faulty battery. Only my mom was at home, but thanks to this thread I had told her that if they replace anything, make sure its new. So she checked with him and it turns out they only give refurbished batteries as replacement. She rejected and took his office number and told that I would call and let them know what we decide. I am planning to call them and let them know of this thread and experiences of people and ask for a new battery or at least extended warranty for the replacement battery.

- Jag

@Mods, please rename this thread since the discussion is shifting towards the negative side of APC service.
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Old 25th August 2009, 16:41   #24
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Jag, check if they will let you buy your own batteries. you get batteries of your choice, and a longer warranty

EDIT: because the thread was moved; the links in jassi's mail are no longer valid. Mods, can anything be done about that ?

Last edited by greenhorn : 25th August 2009 at 16:43.
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Old 25th August 2009, 16:45   #25
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@Jag : How long did the battery last? Which brand was it?
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Old 25th August 2009, 16:48   #26
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@Green, they are replacing the battery under warranty, so no buying batteries involved. But, I'd definitely have a say in the brand that I am given as replacement, if they decide to give anything other than my current Prestolites.

EDIT:
@Benny, Prestolites lasted for ~15 months.

Last edited by Jaguar : 25th August 2009 at 16:49.
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Old 25th August 2009, 18:24   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
...
EDIT: because the thread was moved; the links in jassi's mail are no longer valid. Mods, can anything be done about that ?
Jassi,

Threads had been merged. Unfortunately the link in your email will no longer function. The new link is (this thread) : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadget...dded-well.html (APC UPS: Good Service EDIT: Now a bad service experience added as well)

cya
R
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Old 3rd September 2009, 09:17   #28
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Thumbs down my APC saga is still on

well after no response from mr. SA Ganesh who i was told to send an escalation email, I sent a reminder email (with the new tbhp link) to mr. SA Ganesh, but this time marked apc service in the email. After 4-5 days got a response from them yesterday, that the battery will be immediately replaced.
So i came back from office after lunch, took the batteries from battery tech and by the time I cam home, the batteries had already been replaced by the apc engineer (from ciba systems this time i think). He had already left, when i decided to turn on a few gadgets and to my horror, the inverter now started beeping in 30 secs and shut down. So i ran downstairs quickly and caught the engineer. Asked him what batteries, he has put. He said they are fully charged, but as usual refurbished and not new. I got him back up and showed the problem, he said its not battery issue, its a faulty inverter fan and I have to raise a case with APC to change the inverter now

Now i am not sure why a newly replaced inverter (3-4 months old) has a fan problem. I am guessing it was always there, but only now has come to the fore with my indepth tests and probing. This too must be a refurbished part i guess! Will send out another email replying to APC explaining this new discovery!
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Old 3rd September 2009, 09:50   #29
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[quote=jassi; This too must be a refurbished part i guess![/quote]
After sales replacement will be always refurbished (read as replacement spare) In my 10+ years of exp dealing with many UPS brands i have never seen a new replacement unit. Unless they don't have the same model as replacement unit and the call is escalated to highest level.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 09:58   #30
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Originally Posted by mohang_j View Post
After sales replacement will be always refurbished (read as replacement spare) In my 10+ years of exp dealing with many UPS brands i have never seen a new replacement unit. Unless they don't have the same model as replacement unit and the call is escalated to highest level.
well what i am concerned about is the replacements failing one after the other. If they are re-furbished, then i hope they should last for atleast 1-2 years and not just fail in a few months. In my case both the replacements (battery and the inverter) are faulty. Infact I feel the replacement inverter has been over-heating since day 1, however as a layman i would not know that its a fan issue, if things are working. More so because an inverter only turns on once in every few days. Also all the engineers that have come in have missed this fan issue completely.
Here is my latest email to them

Quote:
Hi, the batteries have been replaced. Thank you very much for doing the
same.
The batteries being replaced are not new but refurbished. I want to
understand, why new batteries have not been given, and also what are the
chances that once again these refurbished batteries will fail in a few
months.
Also more importantly the inverter is still not holding up even 75%
load. It starts beeping immediately and shuts down. I asked the APC
engineer (i think from ciba systems) and he said, the batteries are
perfectly fine, however the replacement inverter which has been given to
me has a faulty fan and hence the inverter needs to be replaced again!
Once again I have similar questions as in my previous email
1) why are replacement components failing in 2-4 of installation.
2) even if they are refurbished, it is expected that they have passed
some level of quality checks before being given out to unsuspecting
customers.
3) why was this fan problem not diagnosed in the last few months of me
complaining about my inverter issues? I feet it has always been there
since the day of replacement, as the inverter has been turning very hot.
As a layman I will not understand the exact issue, however none of your
engineers have diagnosed this correctly.

I would appreciate if we can resolve these issues asap. Also once
necessary replacements are done, it would be great if APC could send an
engineer who can ensure everything is perfect, instead of telling me to
raise cases after every replacement call to fix the previously replaced
parts.

Please do keep Mr. SA Ganesh in the know about my case.

good day,
jatin
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