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Old 15th January 2008, 18:55   #16
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Originally Posted by Blue Thunder View Post
But getting a good branded speaker for under 20K is tough.
@hyper_vtec, try Polk Audio Monitor 50. Check out the profx site.
Some Wharfedale floorstanders should cost within 20K, though going by what @RoC mentioned, I think their sensitivity levels are pretty low - mid 80s.

@Blue Thunder, how are the Sonodyne Sonus 2605s? I think they cost around the 21-22K mark for a pair. IIRC, they've also launched a new version of the 2605s.
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Old 15th January 2008, 19:22   #17
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Thanks bluethunder and shuvc...

I know that the multi-speakers are good. But somehow i feel listening to music on them is not a good experience.

Anyways i would make a good buy. If not now, i would wait, accumulate ca$h and then buy.
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Old 15th January 2008, 21:08   #18
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reignofchaos, I would like to know the source for your above statement. Onkyo receivers are well-known for their home theatre receivers, and their power ratings mentioned are always at 0.08% THD (OR LESS), definitely not 10% THD , that is ludicruous.

And one can get good wuality stereo integrated amps with 100 W into 8 ohms at 0.08% THD or less, at much less than a lac (should cost around 30K).
Please verify such technical info before posting on the forum. Thanx.
Show me one stereo amp that can output a real 100W into speakers and I'll buy it for you for free. Anyway here's the link for the receiver in this system

Onkyo HT-S570 - 5.1-Channel Home Theater System | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

The specs are:
Power Output (8 ohm, 1 kHz, FTC) 100 W/Ch
Dynamic Power* -
THD (Rated Power) 0.08 % (all channels)

Doesn't say how many channels driven, doesn't mention whether that THD is for 1 channel driven or all 6 channels driven. Doesn't mention the 20Hz-20kHz power rating. Seems highly suspicious to me.

Anyway here are Sound and Vision magazine's measured ratings of quite a few amps. Pay close attention to the Onkyo power ratings for the newer amps.... TX-SR501 and TX-NR901. Plus those power ratings are when the amp clips, which is way way higher than 10%. The distortion at 1W is roughly around 0.1%.

ratevsac

Anyway all these debates of power are basically meaningless. For an amp to sound twice as loud, it needs to be 4 times as powerful. So once can distinguish between a 25watter and a 100 watter in terms of loudness but one would be hard pressed to distinguish between a 50 watter and a 100 watter.

@shuvc: The sonus 2605 is quite a good speaker. However build quality is suspect. I utterly hate the Polk monitor series as they are really bright and are just uncomfortable to listen to. The higher end LSi series is quite decent though. The wharfedale diamonds are not an easy load and will struggle with this amp.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 15th January 2008 at 21:26.
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Old 16th January 2008, 08:08   #19
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@Blue Thunder, how are the Sonodyne Sonus 2605s? I think they cost around the 21-22K mark for a pair. IIRC, they've also launched a new version of the 2605s.
I have no idea about the current Sonodyne speakers, shuvc. I have listened to only the SX 606 and SX 909 towers : pretty good, both of them.
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Old 16th January 2008, 10:29   #20
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@shuvc: The sonus 2605 is quite a good speaker. However build quality is suspect.
Don't understand this area much ..

How does build quality have an effect in general? Does it start to rattle some years later? Or do they develop leaks? Or is it just that the dimensions are not that accurate and consistent between different pieces?

How does one check build quality?
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Old 16th January 2008, 11:52   #21
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
) Pay close attention to the Onkyo power ratings for the newer amps.... TX-SR501 and TX-NR901. Plus those power ratings are when the amp clips, which is way way higher than 10%. The distortion at 1W is roughly around 0.1%.

ratevsac
501 is a old model. the latest iteration of the samemodel is 505. Here is the test bench results for their latest AV receiver , wich has got rave reviews globally., the TX SR 605.

"Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 144/217 W (21.6/23.4 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 85 W* (19.3 dBW)*
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 80 W* (19 dBW)*
Distortion at 1 watt (THD+N, 1 kHz)
8/4 ohms: 0.02/0.03%
Noise level (A-wtd): �77.9 dB
Excess noise (with sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 1 dB
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz +0, �0.0 dB
Reference level is �20 dBFS; all level trims at zero. Volume setting for reference level was 78.

Stereo performance
Output at clipping (1 kHz, 8/4 ohms, both channels driven): 124/175 W (20.9/22.4 dBW)
Distortion at reference level: 0.02%
Linearity error (at �90 dBFS): 0.0 dB
Noise level (A-wtd): �75.9 dB
with 96-kHz/24-bit signals: �87.7 dB
Excess noise (with/without sine tone)
16-bit (EN16): 0.8/0.8 dB
quasi-20-bit (EN20): 10.7/11.5 dB
TX-SR605 showed just how technically accomplished mass-produced electronics can be today, with perfectly flat frequency response and perfect D/A linearity to -90 dB (and beyond). Both are as good results as I�ve measured, and while my memory isn�t infallible, I believe this to be the first time these two particular aces have been drawn by the same unit. The Onkyo�s S/N results on our dithered-silence tests were slightly "better-than-perfect" in theoretical terms (-75.6 being the pure-dither result), which suggests a slight shortfall of its LSB (lowest significant bit) magnitude; probably not meaningful in any audible sense."
Sound and Vision Magazine - Test Bench: Onkyo TX-SR605 A/V Receiver


Costs Just Rs,35,000 in bangalore. ( sold out everywhere and available against orders )


10% THD in an onkyo ? come on.Even a decade old onkyo will not have that number.

Last edited by w 12 : 16th January 2008 at 12:01.
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Old 16th January 2008, 12:17   #22
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10% THD in an onkyo ? come on.Even a decade old onkyo will not have that number.
I also dont agree here. Onkyo speakers may have some problems but there receivers are good.

And having a amp with 8 ohms and 1% thd will not cost a lac. One can get a STEG K-series it is rated at .3 % thd at 90 % rated power.
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Old 16th January 2008, 12:36   #23
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@w12: I do not doubt the fact that they are good amplifiers. I only cast a doubt on the way they are rated. This particular amp states 175W/ch @6ohm, 1 channel driven at typical FTC specs (1kHz, <1% distortion). However if you see the results you posted, the clipping power is 144W @8ohm and just 80W @8ohm when all channels are driven. Also clipping means way way way more distortion than just 10%. If an amp clips with a speaker connected to it, the tweeter will blow.

When an amp states a certain power and the measured results are something way off, its ridiculous. As you see from the tests, if a pair of channels are driven, the clipping power would be roughly around 120W and hence the usable power won't be more than 80W. So effectively a 175W claimed power by the maker is only 80W in real world.

@low_bass_maker: Dude I'm talking about 100 watt @8ohm, serious stereo home amplifiers and not some car boom box amps. Car amps are all rated at 4 ohm or lower and hence can't be compared to home amp power specs which are rated at 8ohms.

@shuvc: It just doesn't give the appearance of a solidly built speaker. Whether this matters or not is personal. But nothing really will happen to it when playing music. Its only if its say moved from one point to another later in its life that it might fall apart. One never knows.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 16th January 2008 at 12:38.
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Old 16th January 2008, 12:39   #24
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@low_bass_maker: Dude I'm talking about 100 watt @8ohm, serious stereo home amplifiers and not some car boom box amps. Car amps are all rated at 4 ohm or lower and hence can't be compared to home amp power specs which are rated at 8ohms.
I dont think Steg, DLS, Audison, Sinfoni are some car boom box amps.

Amp will have to work less hard at 8 ohms when compared to 4 ohms.
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Old 16th January 2008, 12:44   #25
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^^Yes but the power delivered at 8 ohm will also be halved. My home amplifier that I use now delivers 225W @8ohm but a whopping 400W @4ohm, both channels driven at <1% distortion, across the entire frequency spectrum. When I mean 100W, i mean something that measures the same way. Anyway we are going off topic here.
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Old 16th January 2008, 12:52   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Onkyo HT-S570 - 5.1-Channel Home Theater System | Model Information | Onkyo USA Home Theater Products

The specs are:
Power Output (8 ohm, 1 kHz, FTC) 100 W/Ch
Dynamic Power* -
THD (Rated Power) 0.08 % (all channels)
You're right. This is the power output at 1kHz and not across the whole operating band, and this is almost certainly measured without all channels driven at the same time, which is a huge load on the PS and hence lower power output in entry level AV receivers.

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Originally Posted by Blue Thunder
And one can get good wuality stereo integrated amps with 100 W into 8 ohms at 0.08% THD or less, at much less than a lac (should cost around 30K).
Quote:
Originally Posted by reignofchaos
Show me one stereo amp that can output a real 100W into speakers and I'll buy it for you for free.
Stereo integrated putting 100 W into 8 ohms with < 0.08% THD at under a lac? Here you go --> NAD Electronics :: C372 Stereo Integrated Amplifier

150 W @ 8 ohms, 20Hz - 20 kHZ, 0.02% THD, INR 48k, IIRC.

I have PMed you the shipping address.
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Old 16th January 2008, 13:03   #27
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Heheheh I knew someone or the other would bring up the NAD C272/C372. Frankly speaking, the NADs are kinda sad amps. Having heard the C272/C162 combo and lived with a C320 for more than a year and having moved to better quality stuff, all I can say are that the NADs are uninvolving, boring and have the typical British house sound.

Its not something I'd call HiFi. There's a reason why this thing costs 60-70k. The design has a hell lotta compromises. Push-Pull, global negative feedback to keep distortion down and all of the standard tricks of the trade. Anything better than that costs a lot more money.
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Old 16th January 2008, 13:03   #28
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I dont think Steg, DLS, Audison, Sinfoni are some car boom box amps.
Lol, what on earth is a "car boom box amp"?
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Old 16th January 2008, 13:04   #29
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post
^^Yes but the power delivered at 8 ohm will also be halved. My home amplifier that I use now delivers 225W @8ohm but a whopping 400W @4ohm, both channels driven at <1% distortion, across the entire frequency spectrum. When I mean 100W, i mean something that measures the same way. Anyway we are going off topic here.
I think we are talking of distortion added by the amp not of that of what impedance at which they work.
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Old 16th January 2008, 13:07   #30
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Heheheh I knew someone or the other would bring up the NAD C272/C372. Frankly speaking, the NADs are kinda sad amps. Having heard the C272/C162 combo and lived with a C320 for more than a year and having moved to better quality stuff, all I can say are that the NADs are uninvolving, boring and have the typical British house sound.

Its not something I'd call HiFi. There's a reason why this thing costs 60-70k. The design has a hell lotta compromises. Push-Pull, global negative feedback to keep distortion down and all of the standard tricks of the trade. Anything better than that costs a lot more money.
Ok then tell us which amp is according to you a good amp. As you have said Nad as sad and other high class Car audio amp as boom box

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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Lol, what on earth is a "car boom box amp"?

Ya new term for me also. But I do not find any driver (speaker) in a amp which will complete the boom box.
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