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Old 12th March 2008, 18:08   #46
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Its true we liked Krell, but that was without any bias against the other two.
I wouldnt expect that either, that too when all five of you concur.

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One of my fav amplifier is Plinius SA102 the one runs on n-p-n configuration. That does not mean that every amplifier coming from Plinius/McCormack/Krell stable has to be good.
SA-102 is in a different league altogether....and I have not generalized any brand vs brand comparison at all. I have very specifically mentioned the model numbers of each amps we have compared here.

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Power rating is not the only spec to judge an amplifier. Any two amplifier with same power rating and specs can look identical on paper. But they will sound different and control the same loudspeaker differently. What matters is the way amplifier is designed and how good the power supplies are.
Fully agree...would never dispute this one as I have seen 80 watters beating the 200 watters.

I would try to be more specific in this post. I have three very close friends using the 400xi and I use Plinius 8200 (not 9100). 400xi is used with Dyn A82, A72 and Cadence Amaya Electrostatic while 8200 is used with Dyn Contour 1.3SE. Sources and cabling are all of very decent grade matching the combos. We guys are pretty transparent about each other's system and BIAS is the last thing we do when evaluating equipments.
Our listening habits also match to a good extent, "nice and loud", ranging from Jazz, Rock, Pop, Blues, Classical, Bollywood almost anything.

Coming to Krell vs Plinius vs MCK.....we have carried out this test multiple times at multiple places with multiple electronics and speakers...and what I have stated above is again common view among us after many iterations of listening tests....none of us disagree that Krell does most of the thing right going by point to point analysis...speed, control, tone, detail, image, stage almost everything and thats the reason I mentioned that I am not surprised you guys liked the Krell. All I am saying is, I am surprised the Plinius lost control and MCK couldnt drive well. That is absolutely contrary to what we have heard here (at multiple occasion). Yes, we all feel that Plinius is far more musical but thats subjective. Control and drive is not as subjective.
I know it may not be feasible to get hold of another Plinius and MCK piece around to audition...but just wanted to put across the word that if you get another chance, do take it up.

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We have listened to the reference of each company in a particular category with McCormack combo being odd one out as it was a prepower combo. I don't think that Plinius 9100 and McCormack DNA-125 would have made any difference in the final conclusion.
Depends...if you want to close your doors so soon I cannot stop you. But if you are open to listen more....you know what an audiophile gain or lose.
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Old 12th March 2008, 20:40   #47
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Depends...if you want to close your doors so soon I cannot stop you. But if you are open to listen more....you know what an audiophile gain or lose.
I never close doors and I am open to the A-B's anytime. But in this case the findings cannot be different the design topology between DNA-225 and DNA-125 is similar, same goes for Plinius brothers. The only difference is power.

Its like a track day where Ferrari Stradale has lost to Porsche 911 GT3 and someone says now try it with regular Ferrari 430 .
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Old 13th March 2008, 11:42   #48
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I never close doors and I am open to the A-B's anytime. But in this case the findings cannot be different the design topology between DNA-225 and DNA-125 is similar, same goes for Plinius brothers. The only difference is power.

Its like a track day where Ferrari Stradale has lost to Porsche 911 GT3 and someone says now try it with regular Ferrari 430
Sir, all I am saying is try auditioning these products at a different place with different electronics/speakers. I dont say you need to carry around these equipments to do that...wait for other such opportunities to listen to different McCormack and Plinius products and you may still choose to stick to your current opinion...but thats fine as you did it after multiple auditions. Room acoustics, partnering sources, cables all matter a lot in what you hear at the end. I have heard the 400xi at 4 different places including my own living room and it sounds very different at each of these places. Again it also sounds very different when partnered with a Marantz CD-17, Bluenote Stibbert, Krell SACD Standard CDP....same goes with cables. Audio is not as straightforward as a sports car.....Audio is more art than science and it has lot to do with what you hear, where you hear, how you hear and how your brain interpretes things, thats the reason its so subjective. The amps in question are very close to me and thats the reason I am interested in knowing more about them. If by any chance any of you are travelling to Bangalore, please do ping me and we can meet. We can sit back and listen to all these amps again (at different places with different partnering equipments) and in detail. I would love to know where things are going wrong. It can only help us grow as an audiophile. My doors are open.
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Old 24th March 2008, 16:31   #49
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Continuing the Home audio selection story...Having frozen on the amplification and speakers we have started auditioning different CD players.. We were able to demo an Arcam CD192 CD player.. A/b ing it with a jolida tube reference..

The arcam had loads more detail and a tight bass and was more musical all the way..The Gurus will give a more articulate review (my audio vocabulary being rusty.)...even though had a much heftier price tag too...


Am wondoering what a Creek destiny CD P will sound in comparison.. can anyone provide an input here...

Associalte equpment used for the demo were:

Krell 400 Xi Integerated amp
Dyanaudio Focus 140
Jolida JD100 Tube Reference CDP
VDH cabling and Interconnects...
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Old 24th March 2008, 17:21   #50
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Hi SK456,
If you feel CD-192 is out of your budget try the CD-73. Arcams are one of the most musical CDPs in their price range. Creeks are good but I doubt they can do as good as an Arcam. BTW, I would suggest you try to go with CD-192 as it is the closest you get to their reference FMJ series CDP and one thing that I have learnt so far in my audiophile journey (which has not been very long), what you miss at source can never be regained by even the best amps or the speakers. You have a good speaker and a good amp, at least feed it all the signals you can extract from your CD so that they can faithfully reproduce them. Compromising at the source (assuming you can afford it by stretching a bit more) means you have actually missed some music forever. Believe me there is a lot of musical information on the Cd that entry level players never extract. Moreover CD-192 should stay with you for long as it wouldnt be easy to upgrade from here. It should compete well with any CDP costing under 150k IMHO.
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Old 26th March 2008, 12:14   #51
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The arcam had loads more detail and a tight bass and was more musical all the way..The Gurus will give a more articulate review (my audio vocabulary being rusty.).
Am no Guru but here are my 2 cents:
1. More detail across the audio spectrum
2. More open and extended treble
3. Better control over bass
4. More neutral midrange (makes it clear that the apparent midrange warmth of the Jolida is more of "bloom"/ coloration)
5. More focused stereo imaging

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..even though had a much heftier price tag too...
Very well justified IMHO, I think the differences b/w the CDPs would have been even more apparent had we used more resolving interconnects/ cables...

Am sorry to have heard the Arcam...damn you SK
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Old 26th March 2008, 13:59   #52
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Hehe so do i see two CD192 players coming?
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Old 26th March 2008, 14:07   #53
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Well I still have a last A/ B left.. The Krell 280CDP .. Coming soon
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Old 26th March 2008, 14:52   #54
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Krell are not great at making CDP. I have heard their current SACD standard CDP and they sound awefully analytical and bright. Arcams have a much better heritage of making nice CDPs...but the 400xi would love a balanced input (XLR) which Arcam doesnt have....in case the Krell 280 has it then do check out the balanced output of the CDP with your 400xi. They are supposed to be used in balanced mode only.
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Old 27th March 2008, 09:51   #55
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Hehe so do i see two CD192 players coming?
Not for quite a while I'm afraid....will certainly consider when I eventually upgrade my entire setup from scratch...
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