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Old 30th July 2012, 00:45   #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S_U_N

I bought APC 700 VA UPS with USB connectivity. I really wanted a system to shutdown the computer automatically once the power goes off.
Sir how much was the price? Can you please give the model number? Ive always wanted this sort of a power backup which shuts down the system properly. Also does this work with an iMac?

Danke.
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Old 30th July 2012, 10:19   #182
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Originally Posted by Parthasarathig View Post
Sir how much was the price? Can you please give the model number? Ive always wanted this sort of a power backup which shuts down the system properly. Also does this work with an iMac?

Danke.
APC BACK-UPS ES 700VA 230V INDIA

The UPS box comes with PowerChute Personal edition. However, to my knowledge this works with Windows only.
You will have to search for a Mac OS version of this software.
Alternative is to use the OS in built feature: Apple menu -> System Preferences -> Energy Saver and then click on the UPS tab

However, I am not sure how flexible that second option is.

The cost of the UPS was Rs. 4000 for me.
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Old 30th July 2012, 10:29   #183
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Originally Posted by babhishek View Post
UPS's are available for 1.2k from decent indian brands, and for a few mins or seconds, they are the best deal!.
What are these decent brands? And which one of these decent brands did you wind up buying?

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remember ups prices will come down in two years again, something which costs 1600, will cost 1200 - total cost in 3rd year = 2800. an APC after 3 years and a required battery replacement (recommended in 3 yrs) will cost the same.
Your 'theory' of price drops is completely off the mark mate. Forget about being priced less, the APC UPS I bought back Jan 2004 in costs about 20% more today than it did back then.

And yes the cost of a new battery set is a fraction of the cost of a new UPS. Examples:

Backups RS 1500 - Cost when new is around Rs 12K (Rs 10,200 in 2004), cost of 2 new batteries (Amaron 7AH, 9AH not available) is Rs 1800. I have 3 of these UPSes.

Smart UPS 2200 - Sine wave UPS, cost when new Rs 25K, cost of new batteries is 7200, Exide 17AH x 4 units @ Rs 1800 each.

A repeat customer like me is the best testament to APCs reliability and quality. In fact I am planning to switch to APC for the home UPS. At this time it is a Microtek that caught fire - yes caught fire. It is fortunate that I was at home when it happened and could disconnect it from the mains and the battery to prevent further damage to the UPS and property. The Microtek was under warranty and the circuit board replaced.

I've seen local UPS brands like iBall, Nirantar, etc, they look cheap compared to an APC. No way I would rely on them.

Fact is APC is one of the best out there - to buy or not to buy is a choice a customer makes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parthasarathig View Post
Sir how much was the price? Can you please give the model number? Ive always wanted this sort of a power backup which shuts down the system properly. Also does this work with an iMac?
Unfortunately APC PowerChute Personal Edition software does not support Macs, only Windows.

Last edited by R2D2 : 30th July 2012 at 10:38. Reason: Added response
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Old 30th July 2012, 10:54   #184
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I have always bought APC and have no plans to switch over to anything else. Recently, the battery on my 1100 VA (650W) went after more than 2 years. It was still working. Only problem was that it took 3-4 attempts to power on and when powered on, it was better to keep it on (the hassle of attempting to power it on again). Their customer service was excellent, and they came to my home in less than 24 hours.

Last edited by vasudeva : 30th July 2012 at 10:55.
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Old 30th July 2012, 10:59   #185
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Their customer service was excellent, and they came to my home in less than 24 hours.
+1

They respond within 24 hours, subsequently the Cust support exec in BLR follows up to check if the work is done properly.
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Old 30th July 2012, 14:00   #186
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What are these decent brands? And which one of these decent brands did you wind up buying?
Quote:

I've seen local UPS brands like iBall, Nirantar, etc, they look cheap compared to an APC. No way I would rely on them.
My unbiased view.

I have been using iBall Nirantar 600VA so far and now switched to APC in March.
I would not say, iBall was bad. I had purchased the same for Rs. 1600 or so in 2007. The body plastic had cracked at several places and I got a replacement body (not new, used one) along with a battery replacement for Rs. 800 in 2009 after my two year warranty was over.
After that the battery backup reduced recently in 2012 and the body has again developed cracks and some parts (handle for example) came off.
The UPS is still usable till date (I would get sufficient time to turn off my desktop), but I think I have got good value for the money spent.

I wanted a system to shutdown the computer automatically and so the search for USB connectivity based UPS devices began.
I don't have the entire list of such models with me now, but in the end I realized that only iBall and APC have such models.
There are very few takers for these models, and hence there were out of stock in Pune. The one from iBall was cheaper by around 800-1000 rupees but out of stock.
After repeated pursuing with APC dealer and escalation with APC, finally after 10 days I was informed that the model I wanted (600VA, I think) was out of stock, but 700VA was in stock). So, I went in for the higher model (Rs. 4000 is the negotiated price) even though I did not need it.

The build quality is good, but it would be unfair to compare a Rs. 1600 device with Rs. 4000 device.

Overall, I would say, iBall gives good value for the money. I have another iBall Nirantar purchased at my other home. After 2 years, the battery went off, and my dad purchased a battery for Rs. 650 and fit it in. No issues after that.

For APC, it is too early to comment on service but their sales/ distribution is not better than iBall. Remember that APC products are not imported but manufactured in North India.
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Old 30th July 2012, 14:16   #187
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Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
My unbiased view.

After repeated pursuing with APC dealer and escalation with APC, finally after 10 days I was informed that the model I wanted (600VA, I think) was out of stock, but 700VA was in stock). So, I went in for the higher model (Rs. 4000 is the negotiated price) even though I did not need it.

The build quality is good, but it would be unfair to compare a Rs. 1600 device with Rs. 4000 device.
Thanks for a useful set of inputs on local brands. I think I could consider iBall for other non critical applications. The thing is that I connect my PC, TV and surround sound amp to the UPS and I need the UPS to be rock solid.

My experience with the Microtek home inverter has just reaffirmed my faith in buying APC. In the end, you get what you pay for.

I have never used non APC UPSes or even considered them primarily because I have been using this brand for 13 years now. Back in 1999, there wasn't much else to choose from. APC's service/backup in India or abroad is 2nd to none. There's a site where Customer Support in US also helps you although they may not be very familiar with Asia and European 220-240V models. They even escalate into the APC India organisation if your issue remains unresolved. - APC Discussion Forums : Forum Home

24 hrs response time + a forum to communicate directly with APC in the US -that's the kind of support I like.

BTW, all APC UPSes available in India are made in their Bangalore factory, APC India exports select models to Europe, ME and SE Asia
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Old 31st July 2012, 03:37   #188
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I know somebody who bought the iBall Nirantaar sometime in the past, despite my recommending APC. The choice was obviously made due to the price. The thing turned out to be a piece junk and was thrown out in just a few months. AFAIK, he didn't even bother with the warranty after sometime... considering the quality it wasn't wort spending more time and energy on. After that he got an APC. Net result: he ended up wasting more money than he would have saved.

That said, I'v found almost all iBall products to be of substandard quality, at least in the past. Anyway, thats another story.

And its not just about the thing working or not working. Not all UPSs are made alike! APC's filtering circuitry is much better. A UPS should not just provide back up but should also protect your equipment. I cannot say that none of the other brands do it as good as APC, but I'm not willing to experiment.

I personally had a UPS called DCM Powercom few years ago. Don't know if this brand is still available. The thing was not just a joke but a hazard. It actually burnt my equipment instead of protecting it. I won't bother to list its other less significant "features". Thats the time I learnt that using no UPS was far safer than using a substandard one. Also, its not like the damage caused by a sub standard UPS is always immediately perceptible - what you may get can also be reduced life from your equipment. Economy that comes with this kind of cost savings is penny wise pound foolish.

Last edited by Raccoon : 31st July 2012 at 03:39.
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Old 31st July 2012, 07:30   #189
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+1 to the iball assessment. Got a 2.1 speakers and it promptly conked after one year.
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Old 31st July 2012, 08:21   #190
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Default Re: Which UPS to buy ?

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post

My experience with the Microtek home inverter has just reaffirmed my faith in buying APC. In the end, you get what you pay for.
I have a Microtek inverter and the switching time is not fast enough. It causes some of the devices (TV, PC, modem) to restart. Do you see such issue?
My UPS (Mercury) is also gone. Its a problem when not using my laptop and need to buy a decent APC UPS now.
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Old 31st July 2012, 10:30   #191
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A UPS should not just provide back up but should also protect your equipment.

what you may get can also be reduced life from your equipment. Economy that comes with this kind of cost savings is penny wise pound foolish.
Agreed 100%

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Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
I have a Microtek inverter and the switching time is not fast enough. It causes some of the devices (TV, PC, modem) to restart. Do you see such issue? My UPS (Mercury) is also gone. Its a problem when not using my laptop and need to buy a decent APC UPS now.
What is the capacity of inverter and battery and how old are they?

Assuming no fault in either of the two, do keep in mind a home UPS is designed only for domestic applicances such as fans, lights & some can power TVs.

In my case the lights blink momentarily during the switch over and I am quite sure my PC would have rebooted had it been connected to the home inverter. However, the TV does not reset everytime the switchover occurs. You may want to get your inverter checked. There's a chance Microtek will say it is operating normally and they are probably right.

Remember a home UPS is not designed to provide fast switch over times for power sensitive applications such as PCs. Most PCs power supplies have enough power in their capacitors to hold up for ~10-15 ms. To hold the machine up, the home inverter needs to switch from mains to battery power within that extremely short period of time and continue providing power. Please use a UPS designed for computer applications for your PC. Please buy a good quality UPS. As Raccoon rightly says it is not just the power backup but the protection offered (surges/spikes/low voltage/high voltage) by the UPS for your equipment.

Also, please make sure that the UPS and inverter are earthed...VERY important.
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Old 31st July 2012, 10:41   #192
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Agreed 100%



What is the capacity of inverter and battery and how old are they?
.
Its 1.5KVA. Has two 150 AH batteries and its only 6 months old. Only my TV restarts (Panasonic Plasma). Lights, set top box etc are fine.
So, I guess nothing to worry. I need to get a good UPS for my PC and modem since I go offline momentarily.
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Old 31st July 2012, 10:49   #193
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Its 1.5KVA. Has two 150 AH batteries and its only 6 months old. Only my TV restarts (Panasonic Plasma). Lights, set top box etc are fine.
The inverter is well specced, nothing to worry about. Do keep in mind plasma TVs (I have a Panny plasma too) have a pretty heavy current draw compared with LCD. May that's be the reason it resets during the switchover

Our inverter is 2.5 years old now and 850VA with a single battery. I'll change over to a dual battery APC inverter once this battery dies. Not thrilled with Microtek I am afraid due to the fire hazard mentioned earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
So, I guess nothing to worry. I need to get a good UPS for my PC and modem since I go offline momentarily.
That's right..just go in for a computer UPS system and all will be well.

Cheers!
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Old 31st July 2012, 18:22   #194
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Remember a home UPS is not designed to provide fast switch over times for power sensitive applications such as PCs. Most PCs power supplies have enough power in their capacitors to hold up for ~10-15 ms. To hold the machine up, the home inverter needs to switch from mains to battery power within that extremely short period of time and continue providing power. Please use a UPS designed for computer applications for your PC. Please buy a good quality UPS. As Raccoon rightly says it is not just the power backup but the protection offered (surges/spikes/low voltage/high voltage) by the UPS for your equipment.

Also, please make sure that the UPS and inverter are earthed...VERY important.
+1 about the earthing. Very important. Without that you can't expect it to do its job.

As for switch over times, our old Sukam home inverter had a switch which you could toggle for normal or UPS mode. I had checked the UPS mode personally, when it was new, and my desktop PC did not reboot. After that my APC has always been between the inverter and PC, so the Sukam's switch over time was never tested again. But yes, our TV or any other equipment never rebooted. My BSNL Huawei modem-router always used to reboot though. That kicked the bucket after some 5-6 years and the UTStar or Teracom never rebooted when feeding off the Sukam. So it depends on the equipment too. That old Sukam kicked the bucket recently, and now we have a new Sukam which is supposed to have the UPS functionality too. Not tested it though, as, like before, the APC is between the Sukam and my desktop. So what I'm trying to say is that Sukam might be a good (significantly cheaper than APC) option for those looking for fast enough switch over times. If cost is not an issue, I'd still suggest an APC inverter. However, I'v not found APC's batteries to be great... at least not the one in my UPS. Don't know what they provide for their inverters, if at all.
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Old 31st July 2012, 18:49   #195
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So what I'm trying to say is that Sukam might be a good (significantly cheaper than APC) option for those looking for fast enough switch over times. If cost is not an issue, I'd still suggest an APC inverter. However, I'v not found APC's batteries to be great... at least not the one in my UPS. Don't know what they provide for their inverters, if at all.
From what I have heard Sukam is better than Microtek, unfortunately got to know that only after we bought the set. My in-laws use Sukam.

Can't recall the 'ups' functionality built into the m'tek but that's probably an addition to the newer models. My PC and other bits of kit are connected to the APC sine wave 2.2KVA and this is connected to the 'power' circuit as it was called in the old days while the inverter supplies power only to the 'domestic'/lighting circuits in the house. The M'tek does tend to overcharge the battery a bit staying constant at 14.2-14.4V instead of a float voltage of 13.8 or so. This leads to loss of water, something I need to monitor closely - another gripe about the Microtek. We run it off an Exide 165AH tubular battery which is providing excellent service so far for more than 2.5 years. During a cable short induced blackout the battery/inverter lasted for 21 hrs! I was happy with that.

BTW, for inverters APC does not recommend any brand of batteries but the dealers always suggest Exide, Amaron, Sukam at varying price points and models.

Over the years and different models I have seen APC UPSes with one of the following:

Exide Powersafe most common (don't freak out )

Amaron Quanta - approved, but rare to see. I use these in one of the UPSes.

'B-B' or similar Chinese brand that lasted me precisely 13 months before conking off. May have been good quality but the engineer tells me that they cant take the heat in India..so premature failures are common. It is a bad choice for APC in this country. Either way they replaced them under warranty with a set of Exides which are running well.

Last edited by R2D2 : 31st July 2012 at 18:51.
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