need a new cpu, but the big question - intel or amd??

[sabret00the]

@ Darky/Amey: Buddy I think looking at his requirement and the fact that he's never gonna OC the AMD Athlon 4200 X2 (2400/-) and Asus M2N-VM HDMI (3350/-) combi seems pretty good as I had suggested earlier in this thread...

@revvedup: Man I think our guy is in a tight budget so he wouldnt like to get a 9600GT which costs like heaven now...

[Blue_V]

Originally Posted by ishotmydog

please shed some light on this. also how much does the radeon HD3650 cost??






have no idea how to overclock a processor, but if it improves performance then why not.

that way if intel performs better when overclocked then why doesnt everybody do so???





is this combination better than the overclocked intel e2160 and the abit ip35???




revvedup the 8k is for my mobo+cpu combination only. RAM not included in this budget.
any idea as to when the prices may fall?? will definitely help.

"is this combination better than the overclocked intel e2160 and the abit ip35???"

thats an entirely different scenario! does the abitp35 overclock well? the intel 2xxx processor have tremendous overclocking potential. dont know how much you can OC with stock coolong! If you overclock pls buy the DDR2 800, it costs a bit more than DDR2 667. An OCed e2xxx is way better than an AMD.

as for me im running a x2 4000+, asus M2a-vm HDMI, DDR2 667 2GB Kingston. Its very stable, never hanged once.

[Amey]

More info puhleez guru ji

please shed some light on this. also how much does the radeon HD3650 cost??

Ok here you go,
simple comparison,

Core Clock -
8600GT - 540MHz
HD3650 - 725MHz

Memory Clock -
8600GT - 700MHz
HD3650 - 800MHz

Interface -
8600GT - PCIe 1.0
HD3650 - PCIe 2.0 ( Doesnt matter much but supports newer interface)

Memory Bandwidth -
8600GT - 22.4 GB/s
HD3650 - 25.6 GB/s

FLOPS -
8600GT - 75.52 GFLOPS
HD3650 - 174 GFLOPS

DirectX Complaince -
8600GT - DX10
HD3650 - DX10.1 ( Future compatibility for DirectX )

Shader Model Compatibility -
8600GT - 4.0
HD3650 - 4.1

Fabrication Process -
8600GT - 80nm
HD3650 - 55nm ( Cooler)

Shader Processors -
8600GT - 32
HD3650 - 120

These are some important distinguishing points in favour of the HD3650 from AMD

I guess the card retails for ~ 4.8-5k not sure though.

that way if intel performs better when overclocked then why doesnt everybody do so???

Any CPU when overclocked performs well. Intel performs better because of refined fabrication technology and superior architecture. Intel always had the upper hand at fabrication, that explains why Intel Chips generally overclock more in terms of pure MHz compared to AMD.

well, for one , overclocking is quite like engine modding- you get more performance, void your warranty, there is a chance of killing your processor if you overdo it, and lastly, it depends on your motheboard. most basic motherboards dont come with the features you need for a useful overclock

Not exactly,
As long as you dont hardmod the motherboard, or cause some physical damage to the hardware,there is no way to find out whether a particular hardware was overclocked or no.This means if you try to overclock with stock setup, it does mean you dont void your warranty,there maybe exceptions though

High end boards offer excellent overclocking options to fine tune.Most of the users dont even know what half of the settings mean, for such users there are cheaper boards with much simpler options in the BIOS which help in achieving decent enough and safe overclock.

Anyways to better explain the facts, a little testing with the E2140 with a mild overclock, should be pretty much self explanatory,

Test Setup -
Intel Pentium E2140
Foxconn MARS (Intel P35 chipset)
1GB x 2 Team Xtreem PC2 6400 CL4
160GB Seagate SATA II 7200.10
Nvidia Geforce 6600GT 128MB PCIe GPU
Corsair VX450W PSU
Stock Cooler on CPU
2 x 120mm Fans in Case for ventilation.

CPU-Z Validation Link

Results -

2.6G General.jpg

Everest Memory Benchmarks -

Everest_Mem_Copy_2.6G_800_4-4-4-10.jpg
Everest_Mem_Latency_2.6G_800_4-4-4-10.jpg
Everest_Mem_Read_2.6G_800_4-4-4-10.jpg
Everest_Mem_Write_2.6G_800_4-4-4-10.jpg

Everest CPU Benchmarks -

Everest_CPU_AES_2.6G.jpg
Everest_CPU_Photoworks_2.6G.jpg
Everest_CPU_Queen_2.6G.jpg
Everest_CPU_Zlib_2.6G.jpg

Everest_FPU_Julia_2.6G.jpg
Everest_FPU_Mandel_2.6G.jpg
Everest_FPU_SinJulia_2.6G.jpg

does the abitp35 overclock well?

If that was a question then yes i must say, it is a beautiful overclocker for the price,
Here are some scores,

3.6G_600_Everest_Mem_Copy.JPG ---------> Memory overclocked to DDR2 1200
4G_Pi_1M.JPG -----------------------------> Intel Core2Duo E6600 overclocked to 4GHz under Water
10.jpg------------------------------------> Intel C2D E6600 overclocked to 4.5GHz under DICE, meaning it did 500MHz on FSB

[ishotmydog]

i don't think i have ever been this confused before . here i go again :

1. e2160+abit ip35 = 8.5K
2. AMD X2 5200 + ASUS M2A-VM = 8.6k

i will not overclock my processor if it voids my warranty, so in that case the vote goes to AMD because it is better than the intel when stock.

but as amey said you as long as you dont hardmod the motherboard, or cause some physical damage to the hardware,there is no way to find out whether a particular hardware was overclocked or no. in this case because intel can be overclocked more, vote goes to the Intel.

also will not be buying a gpu immediately because the computer guy said that he doesnt keep the HD3650(i wonder why), and now since amey has convinced me, will only buy that. so i will have to find it someplace else, then which of the two has better onboard graphics??

OT - how exactly do you overclock a CPU(as in where you don't loose your warranty)??

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by ishotmydog

OT - how exactly do you overclock a CPU(as in where you don't loose your warranty)??

Better stick to AMD if not overcloaking. Over cloak via software and through mother board bios is the easiest. Lot of mainboards now days offer overcloaking.

[Amey]

Originally Posted by ishotmydog

i don't think i have ever been this confused before . here i go again :

1. e2160+abit ip35 = 8.5K
2. AMD X2 5200 + ASUS M2A-VM = 8.6k

i will not overclock my processor if it voids my warranty, so in that case the vote goes to AMD because it is better than the intel when stock.

but as amey said you as long as you dont hardmod the motherboard, or cause some physical damage to the hardware,there is no way to find out whether a particular hardware was overclocked or no. in this case because intel can be overclocked more, vote goes to the Intel.

also will not be buying a gpu immediately because the computer guy said that he doesnt keep the HD3650(i wonder why), and now since amey has convinced me, will only buy that. so i will have to find it someplace else, then which of the two has better onboard graphics??

OT - how exactly do you overclock a CPU(as in where you don't loose your warranty)??

Well, when it comes to motherboards with onboard graphics, i will have to say, AMD has much better boards.
Their own chipset, launched recently , AMD780G is a gem of a chipset with arguably the fastest DX10.1 compatible onboard GPU.Whats more, it even supports Hybrid Crossfire where in after adding another AMD Graphic Card later on, the onboard GPU and the Card combine to give better performance.
If i were to buy ONLY AMD platform as of now, i would go with this chipset based motherboard, reasons being -
1) Hypertransport 3.0 support
2) Hybrid Crossfire
3) AMD Phenom full support (Phenom = AMD's Quadcore CPU)
4) Best onboard Graphics money can buy right now
5) Good HTPC related features like HDMI.

As to your question related to overclocking, the overclocking potential of any particular platform heavily depends on the options made available in the BIOS.That itself decided how much you can overclock.
Almost all CPUs have a fixed multiplier and they work at a predefined System Bus speed, HTT in case of AMD A64 CPUs and FSB in case of Intel CPUs.

For Example,

Intel Core2Duo E8400 has a fixed multiplier of 9x and is rated to work at 1333MHz FSB
1333MHz FSB is a Quad pumped Bus so base frequency is actually 333MHz.
so 333 x 9 = ~ 3000MHz.
Now with a motherboard with good overclocking features,
you can adjust the FSB speed as the multiplier is fixed.
So say you bump the FSB speed from 333 to 400 MHz,
it will be 3.6GHz
This way you can overclock.But sometimes if the chip is not that great, it might get unstable with stock Vcore( voltage to the CPU) which is anywhere in between 1.2v-1.4v generally.
Then you might need to increase the vcore through BIOS to gain stability at a particular overclock.
With high FSB overclocks like 500MHz or more, you might need to increase VMCH (voltage to Chipset, Northbridge to be specific)
All such options are opened up in motherboards supporting overclocking.The available options vary with Mid end to High End boards, high end boards having the maximum options available for perfect fine tuning.
With overclocking related boards, you can adjust the Memory timings also to gain better system performance by overclocking the memory to higher speeds and tighter timings.

So as long as you play in safe limits, overclocking is fun and you get better performance too,thus enhancing your Value for money aspect of the system.
With Mid End boards, the options enabled in the BIOS are generally kept on the safer side keeping in mind that most of the people who would buy such boards would be novices,this makes things simpler and risk of damaging hardware reduced.

Newer CPUs have thermal protection. Meaning, CPUs have a inbuilt Thermal Diode to guage the temperatures and the manufacturer designs them in such a way that if the CPU exceeds a predefined threshold of temperature it will automatically shutdown, avoiding damage to the CPU.So killing a CPU is quite tough.
The only scenario when you can kill a CPU is when you pas insane amount of voltage through it ( such options are available only on High end boards)
For example,
Intel Core2Duo E8400 has a nominal working voltage of ~ 1.15-1.2V at stock speeds.
Intel specifies that maximum voltage that can be passed through this CPU is ~ 1.45V
Now when you exceed this limit, the CPU wont die immediately but unknowingly it detoriates slowly and one fine day just gives up.
Normally people dont use such high voltages while overclocking with Air Cooling or Water Cooling.
They use it only with extreme cooling (Sub Zero), i know i am shameless but yes, i have passed 1.8V
Whats more, people have even passed 2.1V through it, only to know that the chip is dead in a weeks time

So this is how you basically overclock and this is what overclocking is all about.

Hope that helped you

[sabret00the]

^^^ now someone's back at it...in full swing...darklord you dirty boy

[Amey]

What did i do ? i am just trying to help here & btw how did you know that i am Darky ?

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by Amey

What did i do ? i am just trying to help here & btw how did you know that i am Darky ?

Amey = Darky no brainer...

and you're doing a damn good job at helping others bro...

[Amey]

hehehe
appreciate the kind words

[ishotmydog]

thanks amey for the detailed guide on overclocking. am sure many more will find it very helpful.

have decided to go with this :

1. AMD 780G
2. ASUS X2 +5xxx (whichever is best suited to run with the 780G)
3. ATI Radeon HD3650 (so that it runs in SLI mode with the 780G)

@amey - where in pune can i get the 780G and the HD3650??

EDIT: does the AMD get heated fast or is it just a misconception?? and that at this price this combination is better than any intel+nvidia combination??

[Amey]

Originally Posted by ishotmydog

thanks amey for the detailed guide on overclocking. am sure many more will find it very helpful.

have decided to go with this :

1. AMD 780G
2. ASUS X2 +5xxx (whichever is best suited to run with the 780G)
3. ATI Radeon HD3650 (so that it runs in SLI mode with the 780G)

@amey - where in pune can i get the 780G and the HD3650??

EDIT: does the AMD get heated fast or is it just a misconception?? and that at this price this combination is better than any intel+nvidia combination??

Go for AMD X2 5000+ Black Edition (Unlocked Multiplier, good overclocker, if you feel the itch later on :P)

780G is comparitively new, will have to ask around for it.Will do so and let you know.
AMD doesnt heat up or anything.
I would say this is a more balanced combo.
Though Intel is faster in CPUs, AMD still feels snappier because of the efficient Hypertransport bus and IMC ( Internal Memory Controller)

[sabret00the]

Originally Posted by ishotmydog

does the AMD get heated fast or is it just a misconception?? and that at this price this combination is better than any intel+nvidia combination??

This is one of the best myths in the computer industry and a marketing propoganda used in prehistoric times by Intel...doesnt hold good anymore...latest AMDs are cool(er) & quiet(er) than the latest Intels...I'am using a Core2Duo E6600 for the past 1 year on my main Rig which is way hot than the Athlon 5200X2 on my secondary Rig

[yogi1771]

Hi Amey already have an AMD X2 4200+ planning to get ASUS M2A-VM and EVGA 9600gt KO edition,will it be better if i stick to this motherboard or get a 780G based motherboard

[Amey]

@ Yogi,
If you are getting a new Graphic Card, there is no need for changing the motherboard. 690G is also a very good chipset.