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Old 27th June 2008, 21:19   #646
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1. In my opinion, the royalty to Qualcom is part of the handset cost(paid one time when Reliance or any other vendor procures the set) and in that way paid by the customer(as he buyies the cell and the royalty is like hidden cost passed on to him/her). So Reliance does not pay any per year per subscriber royalty to Qualcom.
I suggest you check this out, though I could well be wrong - I havent worked for Reliance so my information is based on industry sources. As I understand it, the licensing agreement between Reliance and Qualcomm is very complex and involves terminal license fees as well as per subscriber license fees for technology usage - Qualcomm also had a shareholding in RComm to begin with and as I understand it the technology came rather cheap upfront to RComm because Qualcomm was hoping to ride RComm for a larger slice of the telecom market as opposed to GSM. Reliance was supposed to be the Next Big Thing that would help CDMA break the GSM stranglehold, so Qualcomm had put a lot into this particular arrangement. That it didnt really work that way and RComm are looking to move into GSM is another story altogether.

Only those in the INNER circles at RComm would have the specific details.


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2. Even if the end technologies are different, The business support systems(BSS) and Operation Suport Systems(OSS) remain the same and can be integrated/same systems used for GSM & CDMA (I know this for sure). Hence economies of scale do work out. End technology (GSM/CDMA) matters only upto the HLR's / MSC's. Ultimately BSS & OSS systems are the ones that support the day to day workings of Telco's.
BSS may be similar, but OSS cannot be. Equipment vendors cannot be the same for the GSM and CDMA networks - MTN is majorly supported by Ericsson, while I dont know what Reliance is on. Probably Nortel or a chinese equipment service provider (ZTE?). Most likely chinese, knowing Reliance and most probably basic stuff bought at ridiculously low prices. Having worked with MTN I can tell you that COST is not their primary driver, Quality is. There would therefore be a huge qualitative gap between the two networks.

End technologies dont matter just upto HLR/MSCs - the bulk of your network OPERATION costs are BSC/BSS related, not MSS/MSC related. Radio planning will also be different for each technology, as would be the provisioning systems. Other than Transmission there is very little interoperability.

There is a big difference between being 'similar' and being exactly the same. When it is exactly the same, that is when you get economies of scale.

EDIT: But we're digressing here. Perhaps this discussion can move to some GSM v/s CDMA thread (I'm sure there is at least one).

Last edited by Steeroid : 27th June 2008 at 21:30.
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Old 27th June 2008, 23:24   #647
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i believe the novelty factor for an iPhone will go off if they launch here at $199 price point. It may end up being yet another Moto Razr with every third person owning one.
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Old 28th June 2008, 04:57   #648
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i believe the novelty factor for an iPhone will go off if they launch here at $199 price point. It may end up being yet another Moto Razr with every third person owning one.
the novelty factor has already gone....atleast in bombay,i see more iPhones than nokia communicator or 6500
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Old 28th June 2008, 17:34   #649
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Price wont be anywhere near to 8000 INR if you go by this

iPhone at just over Rs 8,000? Well, may not be- Telecom-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

Vodafone and Airtel are unwilling to talk about the price they will offer the iPhone at, but Bharti Airtel CEO Manoj Kohli told TOI there is no question of subsidising the handset in India. “US operators are able to subsidise handsets because they can make up for that with their call charges. They charge rates like 25 cents a minute. In India, the charge is 1.5 to 2 cents a minute,” Kohli said.
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Old 29th June 2008, 00:34   #650
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The 8 gig version would come at a price of Rs. 14-16k. This is happening for the reason Jaggu mentioned.

Plus - Apple is very categoric about the fact that it shouldn;t be way to accessible for everyone in India to buy it and therefore doesn't remain an exclusive phone.

This is extremely contradictory to the keynote by Steve Jobs where he stated "Its gonna be priced at USD 199... and we think everyone, almost everyone can afford it.."...

Lets see what all is hogwash!!

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Price wont be anywhere near to 8000 INR if you go by this

iPhone at just over Rs 8,000? Well, may not be- Telecom-News By Industry-News-The Economic Times

Vodafone and Airtel are unwilling to talk about the price they will offer the iPhone at, but Bharti Airtel CEO Manoj Kohli told TOI there is no question of subsidising the handset in India. “US operators are able to subsidise handsets because they can make up for that with their call charges. They charge rates like 25 cents a minute. In India, the charge is 1.5 to 2 cents a minute,” Kohli said.
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Old 29th June 2008, 10:08   #651
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Apple is very categoric about the fact that it shouldn;t be way to accessible for everyone in India to buy it and therefore doesn't remain an exclusive phone.
Where did you get that idea? They want the phone to be as popular and common as the iPod.
Think of digital music, you think of ipod.
Think of mobile phone, you think of iPhone.
That is what Apple wants
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Old 30th June 2008, 10:20   #652
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The iSuppli teardown doesnt include the cost of R&D, advertising, and Apple Tax (for snobs only!!)
Dont think we can bargain with Apple, knowing how much their phone costs. Hasnt done much good with their ipods, which they are still selling at premium rates.
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Old 30th June 2008, 12:51   #653
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How is this Apple SDK different from Google Andrioid or Microsoft Mobile SDK or Symbian OS SDK? I ask because, I see no difference. What must be capable with Apple SDK must be capable with other SDKs. Only thing going for Apple is the jazzy demo. Its matter of time before other players come up even jazzier demo.
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This is not true, Apple has released a ground breaking SDK for iPhone which has been the most talked about SDK (what's new) in the world since a month.
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Therefore, I too saw the presentation. Well, I am also blown away. The new SDK is so revolutionary, I went weak in the knee. If you have already seen the presentation and then making this statement, then I don't know what to say.
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Old 30th June 2008, 22:28   #654
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Ok already leaked out, official way of unlocking. So guys and gals hackers would have started their work by now lol.

iClarified - Apple News - Special Version of iTunes to Unbrick 3G iPhones Leaked

The download link for itunes beta has been removed by now i guess
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Old 30th June 2008, 22:44   #655
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How is this Apple SDK different from Google Andrioid or Microsoft Mobile SDK or Symbian OS SDK? I ask because, I see no difference. What must be capable with Apple SDK must be capable with other SDKs. Only thing going for Apple is the jazzy demo. Its matter of time before other players come up even jazzier demo.
diabloo, have you seen the video's of the SDK, either during WWDC or earlier during the special conference meet? No other SDK looks and acts like the iPhone one. It *looks* quite powerful and a blast to code on. (I dont have personal experience).
It also has an integrated marketplace, which is of tremendous interest for developers. Your app, if approved, can be puchased by 10+ million people all over the world. No marketing, branding needed. Apple helps you to get the exposure if your app is good.

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Ok already leaked out, official way of unlocking. So guys and gals hackers would have started their work by now lol.

iClarified - Apple News - Special Version of iTunes to Unbrick 3G iPhones Leaked

The download link for itunes beta has been removed by now i guess
Sigh. 510 views and the link is already down :(

Last edited by srijit : 30th June 2008 at 22:47.
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Old 30th June 2008, 23:58   #656
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diabloo, have you seen the video's of the SDK, either during WWDC or earlier during the special conference meet? No other SDK looks and acts like the iPhone one. It *looks* quite powerful and a blast to code on. (I dont have personal experience).
Whats so special about this particular SDK? Every WM version that has come out so far since 2002 has had an SDK release and tens of thousands of applications written for all sorts of vague things like turning the phone screen into a mirror or a source of light (a la torch) or even very useful things like "Pocket Bartender" featuring 1,000 cocktail recipes literally at your fingertips...a visit to FreewarePPC.com - Freeware Pocket PC / Freeware Windows Mobile: the one and only site for downloading freeware files for Pocket PC / Windows Mobile handhelds. will show a small sample of the number of free apps available thanks to those SDKs.

Why all the brouhaha over this particular SDK, then?

Last edited by Steeroid : 30th June 2008 at 23:59.
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Old 1st July 2008, 11:02   #657
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I cant really explain cos I am neither an iPhone developer nor a WM developer. So I dont know how they stack up directly. All I know is that the presentation videos impressed me. Maybe that was just good marketing, but they had EA Sports, Sega, Epocretes, and Salesforce, and others come on stage and swear how easy it was to create stuff, in two weeks, on some platform they had never seen before. And the end result looked gorgeous.
Seeing that video made my Windows only friend want to experiment with the SDK. He doesnt know Objective C, but he was willing to learn. He finally dropped it when I told him that the SDK worked only on the Mac
So, in conclusion, the SDK might be only good marketing, but a lot of people are excited about it.
I'd recommend watching the two SDK presentations and judging for yourself

ps: @Jaggu, on further reflection, if you get the iPhone only after signing a 2 year contract, what is the use of unlocking? Your payment details are already with them. Sigh.

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Old 1st July 2008, 12:36   #658
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ps: @Jaggu, on further reflection, if you get the iPhone only after signing a 2 year contract, what is the use of unlocking? Your payment details are already with them. Sigh.
Yup thats the whole idea, make it impossible to physically procure the phone without a long term contract, ie if its on subsidized price. Hey but lets not speculate too much, and await the launch at our friendly neighborhood grey market soon.


On the other hand in countries like India, where operators will launch locked handset, but at a less subsidized price, unlock tool will come in handy

WRT SDK i will not completely buy Apple's story since the idea was always out there, let it be Win Mob, Simbian or newerd platform like Android, which is even more advanced thinking.

What apple has done is to package it along with a competent hardware and create the hype to make it a good success.
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Old 1st July 2008, 13:13   #659
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Guys, it is very difficult to explain the benefits of Apple SDK to non-programmers. A SDK is basically a programmer's bread and butter, if programmers think it is great, then take their word for it.

Actually I haven't seen the program model myself since I haven't downloaded the SDK. My impressions are from seeing the output of the SDK. And I don't get easily impressed.

I haven't seen Microsoft Mobile SDK or Symbian OS SDK either. But I haven't seen these phones produce output any closer to Apple iPhone.

The iPhone SDK is very tightly coupled to iPhone, they don't have to deal with various models from various manufacturers and worry about compatibility. That is why they always have that extra edge over others.
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Old 1st July 2008, 13:24   #660
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The iPhone SDK is very tightly coupled to iPhone, they don't have to deal with various models from various manufacturers and worry about compatibility. That is why they always have that extra edge over others.
If you ask me, the end user, thats the biggest drawback. I cant have a choice of handsets that fit my bill or needs On the other hand latest thinking is that of a platform which is independent of hardware, where anyone can plug, play, and develop. Eventually this means cheaper end user products, with better choices and zillion applications free or more cost effective.

UI is just one part of the package which i buy when i buy a PDA or phone, how flexible is the whole device and how fast it will adapt to newer stuff out there, thats questionable.

Whatever said and done, am hooked on to the UI for now, and think that am resourceful enough to make the iphone fit my current needs, atleast for the next one year. So apple bring it on, launch the phone asap!
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