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Old 1st July 2008, 13:46   #661
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Java ME and .Net Are Top Wireless Platforms Android and Mac OS Lag Far Behind

Despite the hype surrounding Apple's iPhone and Google's Android, more developers are targeting their apps to run on the .Net Compact Frameworks and Java ME platforms according to a new survey released by IT market intelligence firm Evans Data Corporation.

The .Net Compact Framework and Java ME top the list of platforms being targeted today by wireless developers, according to a survey of 384 professional developers working on wireless apps conducted last month. Forty-two percent were targeting each platform.

Linux and Windows Mobile 6.0 trailed behind, while Android and Mac OS were being targeted by fewer developers than any other major platform with only 7% of wireless developers creating any apps for either of those platforms.
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Old 1st July 2008, 14:34   #662
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I haven't seen Microsoft Mobile SDK or Symbian OS SDK either. But I haven't seen these phones produce output any closer to Apple iPhone.
Which phones specifically?

The diff between the iPhone SDK and the .net or Win Mo is that the latter SDKs enable applications to be written for the OS/platform and not for a specific device. It gives the software developer a wider market to supply to - while HTC is best known for Win Mobile phones, they are only a part of the market. Win Mo is used by manufacturers or resellers like O2, Eten, Mio, Sony Ericsson (the new Xperia), Samsung (the i900), iMate and several others. Other than the UI, the iPhone is only getting to where others have been for a while now. Windows Mobile <> HTC.
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Old 1st July 2008, 15:11   #663
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Which phones specifically?
The Nokia N series for Symbian and HTC phones for WinMo.

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
The diff between the iPhone SDK and the .net or Win Mo is that the latter SDKs enable applications to be written for the OS/platform and not for a specific device.
That is what I am saying. Since Apple SDK is aiming only at one phone, that too developed by the same company, they can exploit every feature of the phone and expose the capabilities of the equipment fully to the programmer.

The generic phone OS like WinMo and Symbian have to aim for compatibility and they won't generally try to exploit every possible feature of a given phone.

Ask any programmer, it is very easy to code when the target hardware is known.
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Old 1st July 2008, 15:27   #664
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Iphone is a "locked device".
I am sure that applications and uses on this device will be limited more by marketing by engineering. When that starts to happen, the iphone may have the worlds fastest supercomputer inside, but it will still be nonsense from end user point of view.
Case in point. The WiFi free call application. When someone hacks it to use 3G, operators will scamper to block it because all you need is an unlimited data plan(500/mo) and you have free VOIP calls everywhere, not just near WIFI networks.
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Old 1st July 2008, 16:23   #665
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... more developers are targeting their apps to run on the .Net Compact Frameworks and Java ME platforms according to a new survey released by IT market intelligence firm Evans Data Corporation.
...
That is one hell of a generalization, most probably by ill-informed journalists asking inane survey questions developers find difficult to give an answer to. I realized it is possible for a survey question to have 3 answers, Yes, No and "Are you sure the question is relevant to the subject?"!!! In the last 3 years I must have gone through 20 of these surveys, and know what questions they ask and how. Statistics is a funny subject, especially when you relate studies with who one talks to!

There are 2 categories of developers: independent developers hopeful of selling a small application on mobile devices, and developers working in organized environments developing specific mass-use applications. The first category goes by such 'market surveys' and is perpetually hopeful of making a sale. The second writes device- and OS-independent programs and makes money.

Now, is ".Net Compact Framework" device and OS independent? Is it in USE currently at all in ANY OTS application? And is it correct to group it with J2ME, Linux and Mac OS? That is where the cat jumps out of the bag!

Sometimes it is quite apparent that a survey is being used as a gentle subliminal tool to promote the usage of a particular technology.

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... operators will scamper to block it because all you need is an unlimited data plan(500/mo) and you have free VOIP calls everywhere, not just near WIFI networks.
Today, almost all operators make money by channeling bytes, not calls, and hence do not block specific protocols like H.263 and SIP. Also, if you setup a VPN tunnel - they have NO way of knowing. VoIP over GPRS/EDGE is already a reality with people who know and have the right software. The operators will find it very difficult to justify blocking, though they will always get away with charging for CLI even though it does not cost them anything, literally and figuratively.

Last edited by DerAlte : 1st July 2008 at 16:36.
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Old 1st July 2008, 16:55   #666
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Today, almost all operators make money by channeling bytes, not calls,
Boss - not there yet. Not for a long time, as voice is STILL the primary revenue stream, by a very very large margin.


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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
and hence do not block specific protocols like H.263 and SIP. Also, if you setup a VPN tunnel - they have NO way of knowing. VoIP over GPRS/EDGE is already a reality with people who know and have the right software. The operators will find it very difficult to justify blocking, though they will always get away with charging for CLI even though it does not cost them anything, literally and figuratively.
Actually they do block specific protocols. We do, for instance. There are a lot of other operators who do so to.

As for stuff like VPN Tunnelling, the question is - how many people will actually bother to carry out all these activities before placing a call? There is software out there which will automate all of these, but nothing beats the convenience of picking up the phone and dialling a number.

VOIP over 3G usage is so minimal it is not even of nuisance value. MAYBE Android will change that, but its a big maybe because a few years back there was talk about Skype killing the voice stream on Fixed Line. Nothing of that sort has happened.
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Old 1st July 2008, 17:20   #667
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
VOIP over 3G usage is so minimal it is not even of nuisance value.
Iphone 3G will have a software which will "automate" selecting VoIP when Wifi network is available.
Now imagine if a user gets a software which can do the same for 3G.
So protocol blocking is going to be there, however, setting up tunnel etc., will deter the less determined user.
I am also told that most telcos carry voice internet, yet charge/minute etc., rates.
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Old 1st July 2008, 17:39   #668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Iphone 3G will have a software which will "automate" selecting VoIP when Wifi network is available.
Now imagine if a user gets a software which can do the same for 3G.
So protocol blocking is going to be there, however, setting up tunnel etc., will deter the less determined user.
I am also told that most telcos carry voice internet, yet charge/minute etc., rates.
Answer was in my previous post. Such software already exists. You can make Skype your default carrier on your Windows Mobile phone when you use the regular dialler. Why it even adds a "Call with Skype" or "Call with Fring" option to the dropdown menu when you click on a contact.

I had it on my phone too, used it for about 4 calls till date.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
As for stuff like VPN Tunnelling, the question is - how many people will actually bother to carry out all these activities before placing a call?

There is software out there which will automate all of these, but nothing beats the convenience of picking up the phone and dialling a number.

Last edited by Steeroid : 1st July 2008 at 17:40.
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Old 1st July 2008, 20:28   #669
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Case in point. The WiFi free call application. When someone hacks it to use 3G, operators will scamper to block it because all you need is an unlimited data plan(500/mo) and you have free VOIP calls everywhere, not just near WIFI networks.
Just curious, what is the situation for such an app in Windows and Symbian world? What does the carrier do or are they powerless?

I dont have a WinMob or a Symbian. Heck, I dont even have an iPhone, yet.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
The iPhone SDK is very tightly coupled to iPhone, they don't have to deal with various models from various manufacturers and worry about compatibility. That is why they always have that extra edge over others.
Also the harware changes are minimal and is handled well by the SDK. If you write a program for the iPhone, it *should* work for all iPhones, identically.
I dont think you can do that in the case of WinMob or Symbian. You have to target each and every variation to get the best possible output.
Of course, I might be wrong. cheers:

Last edited by srijit : 1st July 2008 at 20:32.
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Old 1st July 2008, 20:33   #670
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check this out CrunchGear Archive AT&T reveals iPhone 3G launch day details

and we talked about Airtel/Vodafone selling it for under 10k.
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Old 1st July 2008, 22:00   #671
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Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Also the harware changes are minimal and is handled well by the SDK. If you write a program for the iPhone, it *should* work for all iPhones, identically.
I dont think you can do that in the case of WinMob or Symbian. You have to target each and every variation to get the best possible output.
Of course, I might be wrong. cheers:
Yes and No, iphone part yes since its only one or two version of hardware launched. Winmob and Symbian will work through out, as long as its done for a particular OS version and ofcource the hardware supports it. Again that doesn mean that o2 handset and a HTC handset will not support the same application, it will support as long as hardware is compatible.

In automotive terms, 100/90 headlamp upgrade will work in a SX4 or an 800, but if you try it on 6 Volt classic car, it will bomb, big time
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Old 2nd July 2008, 10:04   #672
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iPhone3G - Phone, iPod, and Internet in one fast 3G device

Watch the Guided Tour

Watch the ad
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Old 2nd July 2008, 10:09   #673
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Default iPhone 3G does the math stateside, no contract version gets price tag too

AT&T announced Apple iPhone 3G pricing plans today, so countdown to 11th July will likely involve quite a bit of number crunching.

New subscribers and legit upgraders will be getting the new 8GB version for $199, or another $100 on top for the 16GB variety. The asking price for current AT&T customers who are not eligible for an upgrade is $399 for the 8GB model and $499 for the 16GB model.

Apple iPhone 3G

A contract-free iPhone 3G gets mentioned as well, though there's no actual commitment to a release date. Pricing goes $599 (8GB) and $699 (16GB).

No-contract iPhone 3G are more likely to first surface in Europe, given the recent announcement by Vodafone Italy. Pre-paid service iPhone 3G was said to start retailing at 499 euro, while the iPhone 3G 16GB would cost 569 euro.

O2 also have a Pay & Go iPhone section, which lists coming soon for the time being. Some of our keen-eyed visitors have noticed that O2 have actually posted some Pay & Go iPhone prices some weeks ago and then took them offline shortly after. The reported figures are pretty much similar to what AT&T and Vodafone Italy will offer - 299 GBP for the 8GB one, and 359 GBP for the 16GB one.

By the way, if you'd like to see what you're getting for your money (beside them texts, data and calls courtesy of AT&T), check out the iPhone 3G video walkthrough posted by Apple.

(Source: iPhone 3G does the math stateside, no contract version gets price tag too - GSMArena.com news)
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Old 2nd July 2008, 10:22   #674
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Here is the scoop
iPhone 3G on sale 8 a.m. July 11; no-contract iPhone on tap : Ben Patterson : Yahoo! Tech
n a nutshell, if you're "upgrade eligible" (log into your AT&T account to see if you are), you'll be able to buy the new iPhone for the discounted price of $199 for the 8GB version or $299 for the 16GB model. (AT&T is somewhat vague about the eligibility criteria, although your credit history and the time remaining on your contract are factors.) You'll also have to pay an $18 "upgrade fee."

If you're not eligible for the discount, you'll have to fork over extra for an "early upgrade"-$399 for the 8GB iPhone 3G or $499 for the 16GB model. Ouch.

AT&T also says that a "no-commitment" (read: no contract) iPhone 3G will be available soon, at $599 for the 8GB version and or $699 for the 16GB handset. Pricey, but hey-no two-year contract.


Forget the 8 K iphone
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Old 2nd July 2008, 10:25   #675
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Originally Posted by whatcanthisbe View Post
Here is the scoop
iPhone 3G on sale 8 a.m. July 11; no-contract iPhone on tap : Ben Patterson : Yahoo! Tech
n a nutshell, if you're "upgrade eligible" (log into your AT&T account to see if you are), you'll be able to buy the new iPhone for the discounted price of $199 for the 8GB version or $299 for the 16GB model. (AT&T is somewhat vague about the eligibility criteria, although your credit history and the time remaining on your contract are factors.) You'll also have to pay an $18 "upgrade fee."

If you're not eligible for the discount, you'll have to fork over extra for an "early upgrade"-$399 for the 8GB iPhone 3G or $499 for the 16GB model. Ouch.

AT&T also says that a "no-commitment" (read: no contract) iPhone 3G will be available soon, at $599 for the 8GB version and or $699 for the 16GB handset. Pricey, but hey-no two-year contract.


Forget the 8 K iphone
Just posted the same thing here http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/gadget...tml#post887852. See post 577

As expected, iPhone CAANOT be priced at 8k in India, no matter what Steve Jobs says. Apple will never dilute its 'perceived premium image' because of price.

Last edited by nishantgandhi : 2nd July 2008 at 10:27.
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