Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears > Gadgets, Computers & Software


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th May 2016, 09:08   #8926
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,314 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

I would also like to add that 3D Touch is not a gimmick. Infact I use it all the time to switch quickly between applications so much so that whenever I am on a different phone, I instinctively press the leftmost edge to invoke multitasking.

Also the implementation is incredibly good as it always is with iPhones. The way the rest of the UI blurs depending on how much force is applied on the screen is utterly seamless and shows the care with which the hardware and software integrate to make the feature work.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2016, 01:43   #8927
BHPian
 
navin_bhp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 140
Thanked: 21 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I always wonder why is it such a big deal. An operating system should actually get out of the way of what you want to do with the device which is to use apps, play games and click pictures and I do not know of any other device that does as good as the iPhone.

The only thing that I do not like is that I cannot just copy paste my movies and start watching them on the screen, I have to go through iTunes. But then again, I dont really watch too many movies on a phone.
It's a big deal because I would like to customize my operating system, look and feel of the phone the way I like it. I don't want Apple to decide that all my icons should be placed from top to bottom. I like to decide where to place my widgets. In fact I feel like my hands are tied up when I use the iPhone. When Apple wants premium money for their products it should at least offer significant hardware features to justify it. They are just stubborn that the phone will have one home button and no other buttons. When they have so much room to put a soft touch button for back they just want you to use the soft button on the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I love the fast charging because I also have a Moto X Style but that said, the 2750 mah batter on an iPhone absolutely kills my Android phone, no matter which one it is.
You can't generalize Android phone because each phone has different specs. Your Moto X Style only has a 3000 mAh battery unlike the Turbo 2 that I'm comparing the iPhone with. I still own both the phones and this is my experience not a guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Again these are on paper specs and have nothing or very low bearing on how you use the device in real world. There are numerous videos on youtube which have the now 7 month old iPhone kicking the guts of the latest phones in speed of opening apps + multitasking even when they have double the ram and double the processor count. Here's one and bear in mind Samsung is fastest Android phone at the moment.
This is the biggest joke. No one uses a phone like this in real world. I can post videos from You tube that would prove the other way around too. But that's not my intention. Remember that a Samsung resolves a better screen resolution then iPhone. Droid has a better camera, memory capacity, screen and battery than an iPhone that's the fact. All this for way less money too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
And frankly even with a 20-20 vision I still cannot see any difference on screen between a 1080p or a Quad HD display of a 5.5 inch diagonal. These number are purely academic and also a reflection of what exactly is wrong with the Android world - specs are everything.
Nothing is wrong with the Android world. You are talking more like an Apple fanboy then a smartphone user. I feel sorry you can't enjoy the sharpness of the better screen. From text to video everything is sharper on a Droid or Galaxy S6, 7, edge. I don't think Apple has a bad screen but one can definitely see the difference for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I would even touch a Samsung phone with that incredibly childish and badly coded TouchWiz UI. If you want to use Android, its either got to be stock Android in a Nexus phone or the almost stock Android in Motorola phone.
Touch wiz has evolved a lot. But the beauty of Android is if you don't like Touch wiz you switch to a different launcher like LINE launcher easily.

I'm not against an iPhone or Apple but just against the way they overprice the products and make people pay the premium to double the memory which is ridiculous. At least after so many years they came up with 3d touch which is a useful feature.

I wish for the price tag the iPhone includes the following features

Quick Charge feature
Wireless Charging
IR Remote
Expandable memory
Customizable UI
Soft buttons
Ability to transfer files by connecting to a computer without needing a software
Better camera
Bigger battery

I don't mind waiting a nano second for an app to open but I want the above features if I have to pay their asking price
navin_bhp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2016, 08:10   #8928
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,314 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
It's a big deal because I would like to customize my operating system, look and feel of the phone the way I like it. I don't want Apple to decide that all my icons should be placed from top to bottom. I like to decide where to place my widgets. In fact I feel like my hands are tied up when I use the iPhone. When Apple wants premium money for their products it should at least offer significant hardware features to justify it. They are just stubborn that the phone will have one home button and no other buttons. When they have so much room to put a soft touch button for back they just want you to use the soft button on the screen.
Look I won't argue but those negatives you seems to have problems with are a design choices for the respective OS when it was conceived. Your original argument was that getting bored is somehow proportional to having a less customisable OS and I say you do not. Its like having a car with selectable 7 levels of traction control or having car with it on or off, which one do you prefer?
Also how many of the so called customisation require you to root your device? Android is customisable because it is open source and not because Google wants it that way. They want a unified interface for all devices and not a disjointed mess that Android is because UI is the only differentiation between a LG, Samsung, MI or Huawei.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/googles...-design-stick/

The so called customisation also makes it vulnerable to serious exploits. Do you know when Android started with hardware based encryption which iPhone has been doing since the 3GS days?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
You can't generalize Android phone because each phone has different specs. Your Moto X Style only has a 3000 mAh battery unlike the Turbo 2 that I'm comparing the iPhone with. I still own both the phones and this is my experience not a guess.
It is still bigger than my iPhone and it still doesnt give me half the screen on time of my iPhone. What am I to make to the so called specs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
This is the biggest joke. No one uses a phone like this in real world. I can post videos from You tube that would prove the other way around too.
Ofcourse not but it is meant to show that iPhone is faster with just a dual core CPU and just 2 GB of RAM and does multitasking better than devices with 4 GB of RAM and a octa core or a 4 core cpu translating that specs aren't everything.

You are welcome to point me to a video where they do not open a youtube, facebook or the inbuilt dialer application faster by a few milliseconds and proclaim that it is the greatest. Games by far are the most taxing applications written for a phone because they tax GPU (rendering performance),CPU and Memory (Storage performance)

My Moto Style drops frames all over the place even navigating UI and cannot run a basic game such as Temple Run 2 at 60 fps, something which my iPhone 4S can do just fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
But that's not my intention. Remember that a Samsung resolves a better screen resolution then iPhone. Droid has a better camera, memory capacity, screen and battery than an iPhone that's the fact. All this for way less money too.
Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns? By your logic Sony Xperia Premium is the best device because it comes with a 4k screen but does it make any difference to everyday usage? Do the benefits outweigh the negatives?

FYI, Samsung screen screens have lower effective resolution due to their sub pixel arrangement.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/dis...es-matter.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
Droid has a better camera, memory capacity, screen and battery than an iPhone that's the fact. All this for way less money too.
21 MP > 12 MP does make it a better camera. It does not have image stabilisation, cannot record 4k video's for more than 5 minutes, cannot do slow motion video at 240fps! There is a reason it costs less but you cannot say the same for a Samsung which is almost the same price as an iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
Nothing is wrong with the Android world. You are talking more like an Apple fanboy then a smartphone user. I feel sorry you can't enjoy the sharpness of the better screen. From text to video everything is sharper on a Droid or Galaxy S6, 7, edge. I don't think Apple has a bad screen but one can definitely see the difference for sure.
Call me what you will but you have no basis to back your argument except quoting specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
Touch wiz has evolved a lot. But the beauty of Android is if you don't like Touch wiz you switch to a different launcher like LINE launcher easily.
Yeah buy an expensive phone with crap software and the spend the rest of your time making it work somehow. The less said about updates the better. No thank you very much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
I'm not against an iPhone or Apple but just against the way they overprice the products and make people pay the premium to double the memory which is ridiculous. At least after so many years they came up with 3d touch which is a useful feature.
I told you the latest from Samsung and iPhone costs almost the same so there goes your overpriced argument. Second Apple design their own CPU and NAND storage. Do you even know that an iPhone uses PCIe and NVMe instead of a UFS or eMMC storage solution that everyone else is using and is more than twice as fast as the next best? Yes after so many years just like finger print sensors, 64 bit CPU's, screen flash front selfie light.... do not worry the Android world will follow it very soon and still won't be able to make it work as good.


P.S Unless you can technically back up your argument rather than quoting specs every time to declare which is one better, I wont be answering further.

P.P.S Further enlightenment
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/t...6s-plus-review

Last edited by extreme_torque : 29th May 2016 at 08:18.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2016, 08:11   #8929
BHPian
 
diyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 250
Thanked: 111 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
The only thing that I do not like is that I cannot just copy paste my movies and start watching them on the screen, I have to go through iTunes.
I have all my content on my NAS and can access it from anywhere. the NAS has an app for file browsing. Using this app I can watch the same movie on the iPhone or tv without any conversion or iTunes etc. you can also store content and music in that app locally and send it from there to whatsapp etc
diyguy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 29th May 2016, 13:03   #8930
BHPian
 
nareshov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 268
Thanked: 165 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Being a 5S user since early '14, I started losing battery juice when I recently switched to fulltime 4G signal. I purchased a Samsung A5 (2016) last week and almost immediately regretted it. The reviews were great on paper and youtube but the main problems I had with the phone are:

- Usability: Even though my hands are larger than average, it isn't easy to operate the phone with one hand. My lower palm near the thumb touches the screen and activates actions.

- Internet browsing: I tried the default, chrome, UC browser, they all suck compared to safari. The spacing between fonts vertically are off, they look odd as hell. The smaller fonts are rendered even smaller and barely "touchable". Try browsing the non-mobile version of reddit, for example. The navigation back/forward between pages is not easy.

- Inconsistent/ugly UI: The UI reminds me of CDE back from the solaris days. It's that ugly and very inconsistent across apps. There is no commonly agreed upon "design language" or a Human Interface Guideline that apps use.

The hardware is great, display is great, design also is good (except for the part where it affects the usability by not having enough dead space around the touchscreen to not input accidental touches from parts of the hand other than the fingers). But the software? Has miles to go. Even my wife's Sony Xperia M2 from '14 has a better UI and feel compared to the latest Samsung.

Lessons learnt:
- Stick to the Apple ecosystem. Latest ones too expensive? Wait it out and get at older phone or wait for price drops like I did with buying 5S in early '14.
- Strictly stick to display size < 5" if you mean to use the phone with one hand.

(Sister happened to break her Asus display recently, so the Samsung now goes to her. I'm back with my 5S and will stick to it with more frequent charging until early '17 if I can)

Last edited by nareshov : 29th May 2016 at 13:04.
nareshov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2016, 14:12   #8931
BHPian
 
bhp_maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kochi, Kerala
Posts: 406
Thanked: 85 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by amikacin View Post
5. How good are the maps on Iphone compared to Here maps? Do we have the option of accessing google maps too on Iphone?
You can even use Here maps as well on iPhone. I rely on here maps heavily whenever am travelling abroad. It's working pretty neat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nareshov View Post
- Stick to the Apple ecosystem. Latest ones too expensive? Wait it out and get at older phone or wait for price drops like I did with buying 5S in early '14.
I second that opinion. Once you get used to the apple ecosystem, there is no going back. I have tried to get on to the Android band wagon multiple times, only to get back to the iOS sooner or later. I am ready to try the Android ecosystem again once they have in built well integrated solutions for the below use cases which I am enjoying with the Apple ecosystem.

1) A reliable power efficient alternative to the always ON motion co-processor.
2) A well integrated VOIP solution like Facetime. I use them for conference calls with my colleagues in Europe.
3) Continuity between devices using the same iCloud account - I am a fan of taking calls on my mac or iPad whenever am near them and the phone for example is on charge.
bhp_maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2016, 14:28   #8932
BHPian
 
heydj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Rotterdam/Delhi
Posts: 313
Thanked: 279 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp_maniac View Post


I second that opinion. Once you get used to the apple ecosystem, there is no going back.
I doubt that is so difficult. I used Symbian for 2 years then Android for 3 years and now using Windows Lumia phone for over a year.

Now seriously contemplating getting Blackberry Passport or iPhone 6 plus.

How is the iPhone 6 sound quality through earphones as compared to iPhone 4s or iPod classic?
heydj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2016, 14:32   #8933
BHPian
 
bhp_maniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Kochi, Kerala
Posts: 406
Thanked: 85 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by heydj View Post
How is the iPhone 6 sound quality through earphones as compared to iPhone 4s or iPod classic?
I am not an audiophile, so I might not be able to give an in depth analysis Being said that, I always had this feeling that the 4S gave the best sound quality through speakers. However, I didn't notice much difference between the earphone quality among these two.
bhp_maniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2016, 14:37   #8934
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: alappuzha
Posts: 8
Thanked: 4 Times
Default

Friends, I have an iPhone 4 which is working fine except that now I am unable to hear any sound some playing multimedia files, but am able to hear the ring tones and other notifications.

Are there 2 different set of speakers or is it something else.
seafalkon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2016, 14:38   #8935
Distinguished - BHPian
 
phamilyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 5,594
Thanked: 3,407 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
I wish for the price tag the iPhone includes the following features

Quick Charge feature
Wireless Charging
IR Remote
Expandable memory
Customizable UI
Soft buttons
Ability to transfer files by connecting to a computer without needing a software
Better camera
Bigger battery

I don't mind waiting a nano second for an app to open but I want the above features if I have to pay their asking price
Frankly, while you are completely reasonable in your perspective - you are not the user Apple is selling to. It does not sell on features like the list above, and never will. It introduces features on its own timing - all you can trust is that as and when it'll be introduced, it'll *just work* (like Apple pay).

It sells on reliable performance (whether on day 1 or day 1500) and on a pretty awesome level of experience (whether camera or battery - neither is a segment topper, but the overall package is compelling).

Why else would the 6s pack a *smaller* battery than the 6?
phamilyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2016, 23:19   #8936
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: noida
Posts: 11
Thanked: 8 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

A question to long time IOS users india:

Do apps for Indian service providers, banks or government service related apps are available on iOS? Or these guys just launch the Android apps.

Last edited by ampere : 30th May 2016 at 23:29. Reason: Formatted post
cooolsunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30th May 2016, 23:37   #8937
BHPian
 
Rachit.K.Dogra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 701
Thanked: 680 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolsunny View Post
A question to long time IOS users india:

Do apps for Indian service providers, banks or government service related apps are available on iOS? Or these guys just launch the Android apps.
I am no expert in apps and I don't use a lot of them. But I know many have for both. I have ICICI bank app, myCAMS app for mutual fund etc
Rachit.K.Dogra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2016, 01:29   #8938
BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Pune
Posts: 36
Thanked: 16 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by heydj View Post

How is the iPhone 6 sound quality through earphones as compared to iPhone 4s or iPod classic?
The audio quality on the iPhone 6S is just awesome. Infact this was one of the main reasons to buy Iphone6s for me. It's neutral and I quite like the treble. Of course, you will need to invest in some good IEMs. I have never used the bundled ear buds. I use SoundMagic E80S which are of 63 Ohms impedance, and the 6S can drive it easily.

Almost all of my music is in ALAC format, and some purchased from iTunes.
Brigadier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2016, 09:15   #8939
BHPian
 
navin_bhp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 140
Thanked: 21 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Look I won't argue but those negatives you seems to have problems with are a design choices for the respective OS when it was conceived. Your original argument was that getting bored is somehow proportional to having a less customisable OS and I say you do not. Its like having a car with selectable 7 levels of traction control or having car with it on or off, which one do you prefer?
Also how many of the so called customisation require you to root your device? Android is customisable because it is open source and not because Google wants it that way. They want a unified interface for all devices and not a disjointed mess that Android is because UI is the only differentiation between a LG, Samsung, MI or Huawei.

http://www.zdnet.com/article/googles...-design-stick/
You are not only arguing with me but ignoring all the negatives of the iPhone like it doesn't exist and boast about a new feature of iPhone. While I welcome your argument don't throw up outdated articles and funny youtube videos that you find online. My argument is still based on my hands on experience and it is that OS has everything to do with one getting bored with a phone. Almost all apps are available today for both IOS and Android. Its the UI and customization that makes all the difference. And NO you don't need to root your phone to customize it and YES Google wants their phone UI to be customizable and NO there is no vulnerability in installing a software to customize it either. UI is the not the only difference between LG, Samsung and Huawei, you should be really ill-informed to say that. Get your facts right. Google made it OS open source because manufacturers can come up with their own UI. Customers can choose and buy what they like. If you happen to pick one and didnt like it later they can change the UI by installing a launcher. Are you saying this is bad? Yes my car has more than 1 mode of traction control and I can go further and tune various other things according to my needs just like I do with my phone. The point is my car and phone has the capability unlike an iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
The so called customisation also makes it vulnerable to serious exploits. Do you know when Android started with hardware based encryption which iPhone has been doing since the 3GS days?


It is still bigger than my iPhone and it still doesnt give me half the screen on time of my iPhone. What am I to make to the so called specs?
"So called" - Really? Have you even used an Android phone? And if someone needs encryption on the phone they know what to buy. If you were not arguing with me then don't quote me and then talk about your phone. I was comparing specs of a Droid Turbo 2 and iPhone.


Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post

Ofcourse not but it is meant to show that iPhone is faster with just a dual core CPU and just 2 GB of RAM and does multitasking better than devices with 4 GB of RAM and a octa core or a 4 core cpu translating that specs aren't everything.

You are welcome to point me to a video where they do not open a youtube, facebook or the inbuilt dialer application faster by a few milliseconds and proclaim that it is the greatest. Games by far are the most taxing applications written for a phone because they tax GPU (rendering performance),CPU and Memory (Storage performance)


My Moto Style drops frames all over the place even navigating UI and cannot run a basic game such as Temple Run 2 at 60 fps, something which my iPhone 4S can do just fine.


Ever heard of the law of diminishing returns? By your logic Sony Xperia Premium is the best device because it comes with a 4k screen but does it make any difference to everyday usage? Do the benefits outweigh the negatives?

FYI, Samsung screen screens have lower effective resolution due to their sub pixel arrangement.
http://forums.androidcentral.com/dis...es-matter.html
I mentioned the differences in the specs of the things that I think makes a big difference. I never mentioned CPU because I consider all recent high end phones perform fast Temple enough - iPhone 6 and up included. I don't mind if a phone is a nano second fast or slow. I'm talking about real world experience and you are talking about what you see in youtube. Each Android phone performs different and thats the beauty of it. One can buy a Nexus if performance is important, a Samsung if style, camera and screen quality is important, a Turbo 2 is an all rounder but the point is its a more versatile OS platform. I have never used a moto style so cant speak about it. But it doesn't mean any other Android phone cannot run the same game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
21 MP > 12 MP does make it a better camera. It does not have image stabilisation, cannot record 4k video's for more than 5 minutes, cannot do slow motion video at 240fps! There is a reason it costs less but you cannot say the same for a Samsung which is almost the same price as an iPhone.
Turbo 2 has a f/2 lens compared to f2.2 so the 1 stop IS doesn't matter much. Any android can do slo-mo video by installing a software. The samsung edge 7 in US costs less than an iPhone and even if it costs the same has more features than a iPhone like Pro, panorama, slelective focus, live broadcast, video collage, slow motin, virtual shot, hyperlapse etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Call me what you will but you have no basis to back your argument except quoting specs.


Yeah buy an expensive phone with crap software and the spend the rest of your time making it work somehow. The less said about updates the better. No thank you very much.
The above part is utter non-sense. Not wasting my time replying to that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I told you the latest from Samsung and iPhone costs almost the same so there goes your overpriced argument. Second Apple design their own CPU and NAND storage. Do you even know that an iPhone uses PCIe and NVMe instead of a UFS or eMMC storage solution that everyone else is using and is more than twice as fast as the next best? Yes after so many years just like finger print sensors, 64 bit CPU's, screen flash front selfie light.... do not worry the Android world will follow it very soon and still won't be able to make it work as good.
A samsung edge 7 costs less than a iPhone but even if it is the same price the Edge 7 has way more options than an iPhone so my argument still stands tall and strong. If Android phones can adopt a latest technology I'll accept it happily and not ignore it like you. There are a lot of tech that Androids phones were first to adopt like "multitasking" Anyways I'm not here to start a Android vs ios fight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post

P.S Unless you can technically back up your argument rather than quoting specs every time to declare which is one better, I wont be answering further.

P.P.S Further enlightenment
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/t...6s-plus-review
It's better if you don't reply quoting some article written by someone else. Looks like you still gotta learn other ways to transfer files from your phone to computer. All you seem to know is Apple. Have an open mind because technology changes everyday.
navin_bhp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st May 2016, 09:24   #8940
Senior - BHPian
 
extreme_torque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,546
Thanked: 1,314 Times
Default Re: The iPhone Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin_bhp View Post
....Have an open mind because technology changes everyday....
Guess what I won't bother replying simply because you have absolutely no idea in the world of what you are saying. Peace out.
extreme_torque is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Iphone - now $100 since Iphone 3G S (speed) launched D-Man Gadgets, Computers & Software 32 14th February 2010 18:11
Apple iPhone Launched!!! OMG, OMG!!! (EDIT: Feb 5th - New memory sizes) hydrashok Gadgets, Computers & Software 107 21st August 2008 14:33
this is completely insane - Guy waiting in line for iPhone for 5 days in NYC whatcanthisbe Shifting gears 20 1st July 2007 21:04


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:27.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks