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Old 26th February 2009, 11:30   #1351
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While we can debate on the legalities of whether it is legal to sim-lock or not, the fact is that this has affected Apple big time in the market. The iphone is perceived as a failure in the market as it was just not offering enough in the VFM stakes. Meanwhile, Nokia launched the 5800 at an attractive price and ran away with the market.

A lesson for Apple here?
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Old 26th February 2009, 11:41   #1352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaganm View Post
While we can debate on the legalities of whether it is legal to sim-lock or not, the fact is that this has affected Apple big time in the market. The iphone is perceived as a failure in the market as it was just not offering enough in the VFM stakes. Meanwhile, Nokia launched the 5800 at an attractive price and ran away with the market.

A lesson for Apple here?
Jagan,

Ran away with the market? Honestly, the tube looks like a toy to me. And I dont have statistics right now, but I see more iphones than nokia 5800s. They didnt do anything when it came to their OS, it's just the same old S60. I was really looking forward to 5800, but it disapponted me and instead I bought a 2g iphone. They are like miles apart..!
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Old 26th February 2009, 11:54   #1353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaganm View Post
While we can debate on the legalities of whether it is legal to sim-lock or not, the fact is that this has affected Apple big time in the market. The iphone is perceived as a failure in the market as it was just not offering enough in the VFM stakes. Meanwhile, Nokia launched the 5800 at an attractive price and ran away with the market.

A lesson for Apple here?
Jagnm the reason for iPhone failure is not just price but the features as well.
Calling it failure is way too much but total sale annual sale of iPhone is less then what Samsung and Nokia sells individually in same category ( smart phones) in just one month.

Apple got a very good dream launch because of Mac fan following but their inability to keep up with engineering is Achilles heel and will result in platuing up growth.

For example at the time when Samsung was busy launching SHP based ( RTOS based proprity feature phone platform) HSUPA and HSDPA phones in US market apple brought out a shiny high end lame duck dual processor iPhone with 2G which was anyway lapped up by cult followers standing in queue overnight which was unprecidented in history. But over a peroid this cult fan following is dimnishing. The reasons are clear.

In another yearr Samsung was able to offer F480 and F490 single cpu full touch phones with 3.5 G + wifi again on same old SHP with 5 MP camera and excellent multimedia and few other models based on Symbian and WinCE with 8MP camera. Apple was coming with 16GB 3G iphone which was power hungry

So in Apple Home market ( USA) in Q408 Samsung was no 1, Motorola no 2 ( will slip further due to thier current woes) , LG no 3 followed by RIM , Apple and Nokia ( no 6) .
As Apple target market is only high end phones this does not provide full picture but still in 2009 rivals are far ahead of apple in this market segment. So untill they improve strategy they can not catch up.

Right now biggest strength of Apple iPhone is downloadable applications based on JavaScript but this will dimnish as Andriod and other Linux based phoens ( LiMo) catch up in Q3 09 and 2010. If MWC 09 at Barcelona and CE show at LasVegas is taken as indicators there is a big line of such phones waiting and no serious announcement from apple.
Web Run Time ( JavaScript based apps ) and Webkit based browser were differentiators at time of iPhone Launch but not any longer.

Last edited by amitk26 : 26th February 2009 at 11:56.
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Old 26th February 2009, 20:43   #1354
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Anyone knows good site to download songs for iphone. I sed youtube to iphone converter, but picture quality is too bad.
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Old 26th February 2009, 20:51   #1355
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Download songs.
Just add mp3.
Why convert?
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Old 26th February 2009, 21:05   #1356
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Download songs.
Just add mp3.
Why convert?

I think he means video - music videos.
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Old 26th February 2009, 22:41   #1357
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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
I think he means video - music videos.
Yup I need Video's not MP3.
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Old 27th February 2009, 11:02   #1358
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@amitk26: yes, but that is only in France.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
In the United Kingdom, cellphone network providers don't have to provide unlocking codes at all even after the end of the contract, however most operators offer some form of voluntary unlocking service, depending on the state of the contract and the model of phone.
So, in the end it is up to the carriers and most countries, it seems has got any regulations regarding sim unlocking.
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Old 27th February 2009, 11:24   #1359
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Originally Posted by sam003 View Post
Yup I need Video's not MP3.
Install Videora. It gives you a youtube downloader and you get videos with real good clarity. I tried "Rockstar" by Nickelback and man oh man, I sure am impressed with the clarity of this video.
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Old 27th February 2009, 11:26   #1360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
@amitk26: yes, but that is only in France.


So, in the end it is up to the carriers and most countries, it seems has got any regulations regarding sim unlocking.
This is what Wiki link tells you but not how market and law behaves in UK and elsewhere lots of things get self regulated when law enforcement and consumer protection is strong.
Most of the monopoly laws are not strongly codified and are situational judges decide based on situation.
FYI Indian constitution and IPC is most verbose and elaborate and multiple times of US and UK laws. So here in India courts work on principle that if something is not codified in book or supreme court has not given any similar verdict it is not a law.
In western democracies law provides a broad framework and interpretation is left to judiciary.
Case in point is investigation against Microsoft by EU commission even after US monopolistic commission dismissed similar case after multiple years of investigation.

Working for a largest handset supplier to these very operators in Europe and USA and after running multiple projects ( handset launches) for them I can only say carriers in UK also lock SIM if and only if the handset is subsidized to be on right side of monopoly laws. A handset with price tag of 300$ to operator for order of 1 million sets , retails for 1 euro / pound /doller with 2 year contract.

On the other hand a handset with price tag of 850$ is being SIM locked with out any subsidy in India which is clearly a monopolistic practice.

Last edited by amitk26 : 27th February 2009 at 11:30.
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Old 27th February 2009, 15:26   #1361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
apple brought out a shiny high end lame duck dual processor iPhone with 2G
Huh? iPhone has 2 processors?


Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
As Apple target market is only high end phones this does not provide full picture but still in 2009 rivals are far ahead of apple in this market segment. So untill they improve strategy they can not catch up.
That is like saying Ferrari is worthless cos they sell less than Ford. As you have already pointed out, the market segments are different. Try comparing the iPhones to the high end Nokia's, BlackBerry's and HTC's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Right now biggest strength of Apple iPhone is downloadable applications based on JavaScript but this will dimnish as Andriod and other Linux based phoens ( LiMo) catch up in Q3 09 and 2010. If MWC 09 at Barcelona and CE show at LasVegas is taken as indicators there is a big line of such phones waiting and no serious announcement from apple.
Just give the iPhone App store a look. You might just be surprised.
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Old 27th February 2009, 16:43   #1362
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Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Huh? iPhone has 2 processors?
Yes one is ARM 11 533 MHz Samsung Processor and another ARM9 for Modem
But many others are able to run much more load on a Single ARM 11 CPU.
Either using RTOS based app platforms or running App platform using virtualuzation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
That is like saying Ferrari is worthless cos they sell less than Ford. As you have already pointed out, the market segments are different. Try comparing the iPhones to the high end Nokia's, BlackBerry's and HTC's.
If an only if iPhone is a Ferari and Why should I compare them to worse in the business ?
If acronyms mentioned in my previous post do not make sense to you then there is no point in explaining any further be happy with iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post

Just give the iPhone App store a look. You might just be surprised.
JavaScript enables that so teenagers can write something as stupid as fart button so what ?
iAppStore is a business model Nokia puts same webkit based browser on their mobiles and
on S60 created something called WRT ( Web Run Time) Apple used same concept of JavaScript bindings later. They were too afraid to give out native ( C) tool kit to developers as that can easily breach security.
And this is my bread and butter any way so no surprises for me until I see something which is scheduled to be launched in 2012.
BTW Heard of first LTE UE stack demo in mobile world congress on 16th Feb ? That was developed by a team sitting in India.

Last edited by amitk26 : 27th February 2009 at 16:48.
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Old 28th February 2009, 09:27   #1363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Yes one is ARM 11 533 MHz Samsung Processor and another ARM9 for Modem
But many others are able to run much more load on a Single ARM 11 CPU.
Either using RTOS based app platforms or running App platform using virtualuzation.
Running more apps on one processor need not be the best way to do things. It can also mean that the iPhone still has a lot of juice that can be released by upcoming firmware updates. So no need to change phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
If an only if iPhone is a Ferari and Why should I compare them to worse in the business ?
If acronyms mentioned in my previous post do not make sense to you then there is no point in explaining any further be happy with iPhone.
Please read the second line too. I am asking you to compare the iPhone to a similar competitor, like the N95 or BB and HTC phones. Instead you are comparing the sales of cheap Motorola and Samsung phones and guess what, the iPhone will always come up short. So too will the other smartphones. If you want me to spell it out for you, consider the iPhone as a Ferrari, the N95 as a McLaren, the BB as a Aston Martin, HTC as a Honda, etc

I didnt realize that I had to know everything about my phone to be happy with it. But I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
JavaScript enables that so teenagers can write something as stupid as fart button so what ?
iAppStore is a business model Nokia puts same webkit based browser on their mobiles and
on S60 created something called WRT ( Web Run Time) Apple used same concept of JavaScript bindings later. They were too afraid to give out native ( C) tool kit to developers as that can easily breach security.
And this is my bread and butter any way so no surprises for me until I see something which is scheduled to be launched in 2012.
So what will happen in 2012 and why should I care about that in 2009? From your replies I take it that you have no idea of the apps that are in the App store. You seem to think that there are only apps made in JavaScript. No point arguing with you there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
BTW Heard of first LTE UE stack demo in mobile world congress on 16th Feb ? That was developed by a team sitting in India.
Congrats to them, I must say. Will look out for their arrival in the market, but wont be holding my breath.
PS: I dont care what an LTE UE stack is. I just want my digital device to work properly.

Two links you might want to check out. They were current at the time they were written.

Who can beat iPhone 2.0? counternotions

Global myopia on iPhone features counternotions

pps: I dont claim that the iPhone is the best and only phone in the world. I use other phones too. But it seems that people have no problem in deeming it the worst without even looking at one.
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Old 28th February 2009, 12:35   #1364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Running more apps on one processor need not be the best way to do things. It can also mean that the iPhone still has a lot of juice that can be released by upcoming firmware updates. So no need to change phones.
How many phones you have designed or even worked on in any development team ? Design challenge is to squeeze in less number of processors with lower clocks to prolong battery life.

You need to study a lot about embedded engineering so don't bother much about above things anyway and be happy with what you have in hand.
This is my last post on this topic as this is not actually a mobile technology forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post

Please read the second line too. I am asking you to compare the iPhone to a similar competitor, like the N95 or BB and HTC phones. Instead you are comparing the sales of cheap Motorola and Samsung phones and guess what, the iPhone will always come up short.
What Cheap Samsung phones ? I am talking of Omnia , Soul , Mirage , F409 and earlier blackjack and similar other phones in 500 - 850 $ range.
Have you seen features like IMS Video sharing , VT , Video Editing , 8.0 MP Camera , Image editing , voice quality , MP3 playbacks , Game speed , 3D rendring , data speeds , bands supported , number of messaging services supported on these phones ?

India is not a big market for high end as is dominated by Nokia low end but
that does not mean others don't manufacture good phones. These 2 companeis look at India for mass market phones.
And that is exactly engineering is all about ability to cater to all catagories of customers.

BTW Nokia is bundling Skype and Samsung is bundling fringe for VOIP apple does not come anything near.

For equal comparison you need to compare phones in same catagory and then you will know why more Americans are not buying iPhone despite initial dream run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
So what will happen in 2012 and why should I care about that in 2009? From your replies I take it that you have no idea of the apps that are in the App store. You seem to think that there are only apps made in JavaScript. No point arguing with you there.
Download the iPhone SDK and check out it is JavaScript , basically WRT app /widget/gadget are different names for same thing which gets executed in same way as web pages but phones change look and feel to run them out of browser. These days all manufactures have them and OMTP Bondi and W3C both are working on standardizing them

This methodology of application implementation is just 3/4 years old and called Web Run Time. Basically applications use Webkit ( broiwser core) for rendring and JS APIS hook to native C APIs. S60 did it many years ago but
they did not open anything like app store people had no incentive and place to sell thier creative ideas. The biggest advantage of iAppStore is busniess model it allows individuals to sell thier apps.
Steve Jobs is a best marketing brain and he created a contest in the begining to popularize and bring programmers to the platform.

Google is doing same with java on Android VM they have changed to Dalvik.
FYI Google has put a $10 Million design contest for best Android app.
Google is even smarter and has more money power , So I am sure that in few months you will drool on the apps developed by creative individuals and
give credit to Android platform like you are all ga ga for iPhone today.

iPhone was iconic in 2006 but then now people have moved on all over the world , Steve is dictetorial man some times his flasy ideas are good and sometimes they are just plain stupid so apple is a company which rides in waves and has a niche but cult followng.


Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Congrats to them, I must say. Will look out for their arrival in the market, but wont be holding my breath.
PS: I dont care what an LTE UE stack is. I just want my digital device to work properly.
OK the demo was by Samsung and LTE is 4G technology development was done in bangalore.
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Old 28th February 2009, 12:50   #1365
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well one can say anything but in my case, I used to change my phones after every three months as I got bored of them very soon. tried all( nokia 9500, nokia 6600. moto razr V3i,O2 stealth, etc,etc ) but for the last 15 months I have been using the iPhone and this phone still amazes me every day. I'm totally in love with it. You can't get bored of it. recently dad got an htc diamond but it's nothing in front of the iphone so now he too is getting it. it truely is an APPLE of one's eye :-)
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