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Old 16th May 2008, 13:24   #16
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Alright folks, Interesting replies. Will take them one at a time. Will answer in bold wherever necessary.

Before I start with them, I should make clear that it is not a production machine but a development and experimental machine I am building for my professional pursuits. I work as Microsoft Systems Engineer with core specialty in Mail Servers and Manageability domains. I intend to build this system so that I could test various upcoming MS products and use them for my clients as needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
RAM : G-Skill F2-6400CL4D - 1GB*4 DDR2 -800 will cost around 7,000 and will be stable.

Any intel processor with Q6XXX series will be 65nm and Q9XXX will be 45nm.
45nm have performed better than 65nm processors.

Q9450 is good deal but the cost increase is way too much against Q6600. Nevertheless, You are future proofing your self.

Ram looks okay to me. Still CAS 4 with DDR 800 is a little too performance oriented. When working with Servers, CAS 5 latency will be as good as CAS 4.

Regarding 45 nm & 65, I don't see much improvement apart from power consumption and a little more processing power that obviously comes with newer CPU. But I can extract as much from a moderately OCed 6600/6700. They are known to go beyond 3 GHz with air cooling. Again, nothing is future proof, my friend.

The prices will fall drastically after Intel comes out with Socket 1366 in 2009.

Seagate has one of the best RMA, but for your function needs, WD will serve better. The percentage of Defective HDD are very less as compared to Seagate. I again feel that W.D. Caviar RE2, 500GB *2 in RAID 0 (you need this ) is good option.

Not sure here, but I think I wil get WD Caviar RE2, may be a couple of them at least with or without Raid-0.

Regarding dual processor board,
Intel D5400XS is one option.
Here is the link:
Intel® Desktop Board D5400XS Overview

This need fully buffered ram (FBDIMM). Too expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetfreakBombay View Post
Good to see another Slackware user

Coming back to topic:

I run 3 VMs all the time on Windows XP host. This is for development/tweaking/safety and not for professional usage. Performance is satisfactory so far.

For a budget of 70k, I'll build this system:
Attachment 15552

Advantages:
1. 2.6 GHz CPU with 6 MB cache.
2. 8 GB RAM (Cab be used for SWAP by VMs through memory mapped files)
3. 4 HDDs so that :
a. Either each VM gets its own HDD
b. With RAID 0, and two pairs of HDDs; two VMs share HDD

This config should take care of bottlenecks caused by HDD, and should be stable.

It looks very good to me. One drawback here is E8200. I considered E8400 before I moved on to the Quad brigade because after a while when you run 4-6 Win2K3 servers with softwares like Exchange, SMS, SQL, MOM, etc, they start dragging just for the lack of processing power and disk more than RAM. Hence the Q6600/6700. Will scale it to 8 GB eventually in a couple of months.

Will address the HDD point next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
If you need only software virtualization, you can go for something called VirtualBox. I am using this product on my Laptop and my configuration is something like this:

On one partition, I have Windows. I boot through Windows only for my iPhone synchronization with itunes. Other than that, I practically have no use of Windows.

On the other partition, I have Solaris with a network virtualization software called Crossbow installed. My idea is to replicate my lab on the laptop. So, I used VirtualBox to install three virtual machines (two Solaris machines and one Linux machine). I have created a virtual network out there and all the three VMs can communicate with each other. I have used a separate disk space which I have exported as an iSCSI target to all these VMs. They share this "disk". Since I work with such a configuration very often, I need not look for lab machines to test my code changes.

EDIT: VirtualBox is available for Solaris, Windows and MAC.
I considered the thought of getting my AMD X2 3200+ which is with my parents right now and use it as a SAN device as suggest by a friend. So all the HDD would have been added to that machine and use it as iSCSI target for my VM with a second LAN card. Sounds interesting but then I would have had to buy another comp for my parents (Another cost!!! Grrr). Someday inshalla, I will have this running as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
I just noticed that given2fly wants to run 4 to 6 VMs simultaneously. Like several others have mentioned, buy several HDDs to avoid the bottlenecks there. Also, the thumb rule that I would follow is to have 2GB RAM per VM so if you are planning to run high loads so I would recommend a minimum of 8GB RAM. Go higher if you can afford it.
Oh buddy, if you go on with that rule of thumb, you will have no thumb after a while. I mean going bankrupt!

Honestly, one has to scale it down below real recommendations from vendors to run all of them and test them all together.
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Old 16th May 2008, 15:19   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by given2fly View Post
Before I start with them, I should make clear that it is not a production machine but a development and experimental machine I am building for my professional pursuits. I work as Microsoft Systems Engineer with core specialty in Mail Servers and Manageability domains.
Oh then you are in same boat.... as mentioned earlier, I do something similar. Need to have many configs live in VM to test Open Source projects that I work on at home.

In that case, we can scale down a LOT.

4 GB (800 MHz) will do just fine, no need to spend $$$ on CorsAir /G-Skill, simple Transcend will do. Even if RAM fails, you wont have to worry about business downtime so cheap is okay.

So, at cost of 47k this config can be considered (CorsAir 1066 Mhz)

Name:  config_for_4_vms_corsair.PNG
Views: 218
Size:  9.9 KB

Or at 39k, (Transcend 800 MHz)

Name:  config_for_4_vms_tanscend.PNG
Views: 207
Size:  9.4 KB
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Old 16th May 2008, 15:30   #18
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if you just want a Cheap NAS, Stuff a Intel D201GLY2(3.2k), generic PSU( .4k) 512 MB RAM (.5k) + HDD of choice in a shoebox and it should do

Last edited by greenhorn : 16th May 2008 at 15:33.
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Old 16th May 2008, 18:48   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by given2fly View Post
Alright folks, Interesting replies. Will take them one at a time. Will answer in bold wherever necessary.

Before I start with them, I should make clear that it is not a production machine but a development and experimental machine I am building for my professional pursuits. I work as Microsoft Systems Engineer with core specialty in Mail Servers and Manageability domains. I intend to build this system so that I could test various upcoming MS products and use them for my clients as needed.








I considered the thought of getting my AMD X2 3200+ which is with my parents right now and use it as a SAN device as suggest by a friend. So all the HDD would have been added to that machine and use it as iSCSI target for my VM with a second LAN card. Sounds interesting but then I would have had to buy another comp for my parents (Another cost!!! Grrr). Someday inshalla, I will have this running as well.



Oh buddy, if you go on with that rule of thumb, you will have no thumb after a while. I mean going bankrupt!

Honestly, one has to scale it down below real recommendations from vendors to run all of them and test them all together.
Well, the overall expense of SkullTrail will be very much, but that was your query and my Lab is going to have one!

45nm are more stabe with overclocking with air cooling, and there are very minor marchitecture changes that will definatley help. They really pack a lot more than just a different manufacturing tech, and the additonal Cache will help. The fsb of Q6600 is 1033, where as Q9450 is 1333, so there will be more than notable change in performance.
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Old 16th May 2008, 20:02   #20
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Hi everyone.


My idea was not to flame anyone or even incite any kid of reactive opinions.
I have been an idiot by not mentioning the details, so here we are:
(Anything you read here is subject to changes).

Given2fly will probably have these points to consider:
1) Need and Pricing 2)performance 3)support.

1)Needs and Pricing:
He needs a product that works as per his implementation and it has to be either cheap or free.

2)Performance:
Considering pricing he has to also ensure it performs well.

3) Support:
He should be able to recover data (read -> VMs) if they abruptly crash.


Please refer Excel sheet that is attached.
I took a lot of Pain so please do let me know if you have feedbacks for it.
Attached Files
File Type: xls Vm list.xls (29.5 KB, 142 views)
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Old 16th May 2008, 20:10   #21
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Buddy, I agree that SkullTrail is the in-thing for you. But the latest is not always the bestest. SkullTrail is not even going to last 1 full year from today before it is replaced with a newer architecture from Intel (Socket 1366). And the amount of money I put in SkullTrail is something I can build 2 Q6600 systems with the same config and have a third cheap AMD system running a homemade SAN solution with commodity hardware. 1333 MHZ DDR2/3 is not cheap at all and performance gain $/mhz is nothing to boast about. Virtualization doesn't need ultimate performance with top hardware at our level. Dedicating one core to each machine does. Web-site will sell anything. You have to understand and make the ultimate decision.

BTW, the topic is still open to discussions. Also, can we take it to the next level by exchanging ideas from who actually do a lot of virtualization for their employers/clients.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Well, the overall expense of SkullTrail will be very much, but that was your query and my Lab is going to have one!

45nm are more stabe with overclocking with air cooling, and there are very minor marchitecture changes that will definatley help. They really pack a lot more than just a different manufacturing tech, and the additonal Cache will help. The fsb of Q6600 is 1033, where as Q9450 is 1333, so there will be more than notable change in performance.
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Old 17th May 2008, 08:45   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by given2fly View Post
Buddy, I agree that SkullTrail is the in-thing for you. But the latest is not always the bestest. SkullTrail is not even going to last 1 full year from today before it is replaced with a newer architecture from Intel (Socket 1366). And the amount of money I put in SkullTrail is something I can build 2 Q6600 systems with the same config and have a third cheap AMD system running a homemade SAN solution with commodity hardware. 1333 MHZ DDR2/3 is not cheap at all and performance gain $/mhz is nothing to boast about. Virtualization doesn't need ultimate performance with top hardware at our level. Dedicating one core to each machine does. Web-site will sell anything. You have to understand and make the ultimate decision.

BTW, the topic is still open to discussions. Also, can we take it to the next level by exchanging ideas from who actually do a lot of virtualization for their employers/clients.
Ok, if that is what is the truth, then I might have to inform others that Skulltrail is not the ideal solution for them. Socket 1366 with QuickPath Interconnect ( this is what is HyperTransport to AMD ) will give good gain in performance. If you are not really weary of Skulltrial, Q6600 and it can easily be over clocked to 3.0GHz with air cooling, however the heatsink might be just slightly better than stock. I have tried this and managed to around 2.97 in friend's pc and it was stable. Its realtively easy to find the perfect combination.
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Old 17th May 2008, 08:49   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritesh Nair View Post
Hi everyone.


My idea was not to flame anyone or even incite any kid of reactive opinions.
I have been an idiot by not mentioning the details, so here we are:
(Anything you read here is subject to changes).

Given2fly will probably have these points to consider:
1) Need and Pricing 2)performance 3)support.

1)Needs and Pricing:
He needs a product that works as per his implementation and it has to be either cheap or free.

2)Performance:
Considering pricing he has to also ensure it performs well.

3) Support:
He should be able to recover data (read -> VMs) if they abruptly crash.


Please refer Excel sheet that is attached.
I took a lot of Pain so please do let me know if you have feedbacks for it.
I saw your file and looks like you have actually spent some quality time making this file. Great job.
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Old 19th May 2008, 07:52   #24
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Oh I forgot to mention virtual iron. I tried it but it didnt work for me . Config issues i think. may work for someone. If it does do write back.
Virtual Iron - True Server Virtualization for Everyone

Its free for 5 vms on one server i think.

Oh incase anyone wants a cheap quick iscsi san! then boot the 1 TB free thumb drive san. Works like a breeze. No 2k8 clusters please .SCSI-3 ie PGR does not work.
iSCSI SAN Storage Area Network Servers NAS Network Attached Storage Data Storage Solution - OPEN-E software
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Old 21st May 2008, 12:27   #25
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Windows 2008 made me feel the worst today. I installed hyper-V and then virtual box and Vmware 6.5 beta. I started virtual box and it was installing windows 2008 inside it and then started Hyper-V and started the boot for xen. Poof BSOD. I thought that it must be virtualbox . SO i installed vmware 6.5 and then started it normally and put a xen iso to boot. and bingo it rebooted promptly without a prompt. How nice.
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Old 22nd May 2008, 12:58   #26
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Can processor cores be disabled from BIOS on a requirement basis? Say, I bought a Quad-Core and need to disable test 2 of them, how can I do that. Is it not possible be C2Q and possible with Xeon?
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Old 22nd May 2008, 19:20   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by given2fly View Post
Can processor cores be disabled from BIOS on a requirement basis? Say, I bought a Quad-Core and need to disable test 2 of them, how can I do that. Is it not possible be C2Q and possible with Xeon?

You have hit the nail on the correct point. I am still trying to get that bios workaround. Till now there is no success. However, I read on internet that with some specific ASUS motherboard and Phenom ( B3 Stepping ) this was possible to utilize phenom as dual core, Toliman( X3 ) or Quadcore. However this was not confirmed and rather the BIOS was not latest and flashed. I am still trying to get BIOS workaround to convert my standard X2 5000+ to black edition ( i.e. I am trying to unlock my cpu multiplier ).

Will be searching for these.
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Old 27th May 2008, 19:22   #28
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Here is a fantastic comparasion of all Virtualization technologies available in the market with their pros and cons. Will go through it later, but for me for now, it is VMware Server on my workstation.
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Old 2nd June 2008, 11:36   #29
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I think we can disable cores. I did that on a dg33 intel board. but it allows a direct disable i.e allows only one core to be on. that is in the standard cmos setup.
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Old 2nd June 2008, 13:05   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by given2fly View Post
Here is a fantastic comparasion of all Virtualization technologies available in the market with their pros and cons. Will go through it later, but for me for now, it is VMware Server on my workstation.
Oops, I forgot to mention the link. It is as below:Comparison of virtual machines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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