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Old 22nd July 2010, 17:53   #136
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Thank god we have a thread here on this topic.

Anyways, i am planning to buy a inverter, here are the details

Make: APC
Model: APC Home-UPS: BI850SINE (flooded battery)
Features:
Sine Wave Output - eliminates humming and heat generated when powering tubelights and fans.

LED Indicators provide easy-to-read status of your power conditions, Home-UPS and battery.

Home/Away Switch - keeps your battery charged when you're away, and prevents needless discharges.

Intelligent Battery Charging - Microprocessor controlled, 3-stage regulated charging ensures the fastest recharge times without decreasing battery life.

Wide Input Voltage Window - saves your battery power for when you really need it - during power cuts!

UPS/INVERTER Switch - lets you power computer systems as well as lights, fans and televisions.

Charger Output Selector - matches the battery charger output to your specific battery, ensuring the longest possible battery life by preventing under and overcharging.

Battery Input Fuses - protect against installation mishaps.

Advanced Safety Features - safeguard your Home-UPS and battery.

Push Button Circuit Breaker - provides easy recovery from an overload while on mains power.

Generator Compatibility - allows you to recharge your battery while on generator power

Specs (below)
Inverter Batteries-apc.jpg

Price = UPS + Amaron 130 + trolley = 15500/-

Question: I have heard that AGM's are the best technology to go in for.
Does any indian company makes such stuff ?? How much is it for ??
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Old 16th August 2010, 12:42   #137
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I hope this is the right place to post this. Although the discussions revolve primarily around home-UPS set-ups, I would like some advice on an office UPS set up.

We have a 7 KVA online UPS (4900 W) - to which I am to add 20 pieces of 12V batteries.

Currently we have 42AH batteries.

Query 1: Is it true that if even one of the batteries on the stack goes bad, it will affect all of them? And thus, you have to replace all of them? Else the replaced *new* battery will also go bad, because the charge ratings (or whatever that means) are different between the new one and the used ones.

Query 2: How do I calculate the increase in back-up time if I upgrade to a 65 or 100 AH battery?

Query 3: The batteries we have now are the Amaron Quanta SMF VRLA batteries. But they come with a standard 12 month warranty. Are there any other SMF batteries that come with a longer warranty period? Because if the answer to Query 1 is *yes*, then I really do want a longer warranty period.

Query 4: Can I *fix* the worn out batteries myself through a genuine after-market shop? What are the downsides?
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Old 16th August 2010, 14:54   #138
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!. Ya even if one of the battery is short or open it will effect the overall performance of the ups. If the condition of the other batteries is good, then you can change the single battery. How much old are your batteries.

2. Increase in backup depends on load and the type of battery used. You will have to check that manually (switching off the mains and checking the backup). You will get an increase of about 20% with 65 ah and about 50% for 100 ah normally of what you are getting now. But important, check if the charger can handle the upgrade... I doubt it. Cant you use tubular batteries.

3. Most smf batteries come with 1 year warranty. Check with the dealer if there is any others.

4. SMF batteries cannot be fixed like tubular or semitubular.
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Old 16th August 2010, 19:18   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipz View Post
!. Ya even if one of the battery is short or open it will effect the overall performance of the ups. If the condition of the other batteries is good, then you can change the single battery. How much old are your batteries.
Okay, good I confirmed this. 17 batteries are from mid 2007. The other three were replaced in early 2009. I am getting the Amaron guys to drop in with their volt meter and check the reading on each of the batteries myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipz View Post
2. Increase in backup depends on load and the type of battery used. You will have to check that manually (switching off the mains and checking the backup). You will get an increase of about 20% with 65 ah and about 50% for 100 ah normally of what you are getting now. But important, check if the charger can handle the upgrade... I doubt it. Cant you use tubular batteries.
I could use tubular batteries, but went with SMF because its no trouble maintenance and the works. I did expect it to last a LOT more though, so I am a bit disappointed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipz View Post
3. Most smf batteries come with 1 year warranty. Check with the dealer if there is any others.
I read early in this thread about Exide giving a 5 year warranty on some 140 AH battery or something, which is fantastic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipz View Post
4. SMF batteries cannot be fixed like tubular or semitubular.
So thats another downer for the SMF batteries. I guess the tubular batteries occupy a helluva a lot of space and need to maintained and emit those gases. Our UPS has been dumped in the garage which is well away from the main office.
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Old 16th August 2010, 22:55   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Okay, good I confirmed this. 17 batteries are from mid 2007. The other three were replaced in early 2009. I am getting the Amaron guys to drop in with their volt meter and check the reading on each of the batteries myself.
Then they are past the normal life expectancy, replace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
I could use tubular batteries, but went with SMF because its no trouble maintenance and the works. I did expect it to last a LOT more though, so I am a bit disappointed.
I read early in this thread about Exide giving a 5 year warranty on some 140 AH battery or something, which is fantastic.
That is fully tubular battery, a single 100 ah cost around 12000, or 150 ah (IT500) costing 15000 to 16500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
So thats another downer for the SMF batteries. I guess the tubular batteries occupy a helluva a lot of space and need to maintained and emit those gases. Our UPS has been dumped in the garage which is well away from the main office.
Another reason to get tubular battery. A 100 ah tubular needs nearly the same space and 100 ah SMF. You can take AMC, and they will look after the maintenance, and water filling. Since it is in garage, no worry about fumes too.
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Old 17th August 2010, 08:33   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipz View Post
That is fully tubular battery, a single 100 ah cost around 12000, or 150 ah (IT500) costing 15000 to 16500..
The 100AH SMF comes at about 6k. Why is the tubular so much more expensive considering its old-tech?
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Old 17th August 2010, 10:09   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
The 100AH SMF comes at about 6k. Why is the tubular so much more expensive considering its old-tech?
Tubular battery cannot be classified as old technology, actually it is build for longer life and to give steady sustained voltage over longer duration for applications like inverter/UPS.

I have a local made tubular which has now lasted for over 4.5 years and still going strong. in our area we have prolong unscheduled power cuts but the battery is holding fine. I have heard tubular lasting upto 8-10 years ( depends on usage and maintenance). Regarding top ups a once in 6 months top ups is sufficient, branded once require even lesser topups.

Branded tubulars are quite reliable very good value for money however they will be much costlier to buy initially. I would prefer tubular over SMF.
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Old 17th August 2010, 12:05   #143
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@Red Liner: You get 2 years life with smf with less backup towards the end life, where as you get about 6 to 8 years with tubular with good backup, which is good. You decide.

A 100 ah exide tubular has a warranty of 5 years, but will normally work for 7 or 8 years, compared to 2 years life of smf battery. So there is no problem in paying double the amount.
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Old 20th August 2010, 16:08   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadra View Post
Thank god we have a thread here on this topic.

Anyways, i am planning to buy a inverter, here are the details

Make: APC
Model: APC Home-UPS: BI850SINE (flooded battery)
Features:
Sine Wave Output - eliminates humming and heat generated when powering tubelights and fans.

LED Indicators provide easy-to-read status of your power conditions, Home-UPS and battery.

Home/Away Switch - keeps your battery charged when you're away, and prevents needless discharges.

Intelligent Battery Charging - Microprocessor controlled, 3-stage regulated charging ensures the fastest recharge times without decreasing battery life.

Wide Input Voltage Window - saves your battery power for when you really need it - during power cuts!

UPS/INVERTER Switch - lets you power computer systems as well as lights, fans and televisions.

Charger Output Selector - matches the battery charger output to your specific battery, ensuring the longest possible battery life by preventing under and overcharging.

Battery Input Fuses - protect against installation mishaps.

Advanced Safety Features - safeguard your Home-UPS and battery.

Push Button Circuit Breaker - provides easy recovery from an overload while on mains power.

Generator Compatibility - allows you to recharge your battery while on generator power

Specs (below)
Attachment 392042

Price = UPS + Amaron 130 + trolley = 15500/-

Question: I have heard that AGM's are the best technology to go in for.
Does any indian company makes such stuff ?? How much is it for ??
did you get to buy this? if so how is it and from who? this looks like a decent set up but heard some probs with the 850 model of APC hence supply is stopped
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Old 26th August 2010, 10:26   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadra View Post
Thank god we have a thread here on this topic.

Anyways, i am planning to buy a inverter, here are the details

Make: APC
Model: APC Home-UPS: BI850SINE (flooded battery)

Price = UPS + Amaron 130 + trolley = 15500/-

Question: I have heard that AGM's are the best technology to go in for.
Does any indian company makes such stuff ?? How much is it for ??
quadra

I have an Smart 1500 APC UPS rated 1500 VA, for the last seven years or so. Here are the facts

- The UPS is really good and has not given any trouble. For the first two years APC would simply replace the UPS if there was any complaint

- It has 2 x 17 AH batteries, so should give 17 x 2 x 12 = 408 VAH, or an hour with 400VA load. It gives 25min with 400 VA load! (see my note below for the why of it)

- The batteries last about three years, I am now on the second set.

NOTE :

The battery capacity is calculated on a 10 hour discharge rate.

At 1 hour discharge rate the capacity is not Capacity/10 but Capacity/20. This applies to most batteries available in the market. Hence if you want larger capacity for shorter time please factor this in. To get detailed capacity, Google and you would get the capacity-time charts for most of the manufacturers. Further the ratings are at at a fixed temperature, normally 25 degrees, and has to reduced at higher temperature, as well as below zero.

The VA ratings of UPS/Inverts has also to be derated to at least 75% in my experience. Thus a 1KVA UPS with 150 AH battery should have a capacity of 150 x 12 = 1800 VAH, but for 1 hour discharge, will deliver only 700-800 VAH. This is why it is better to calculate the battery capacity for 5-10 hours on domestic load, you simply get more from the batteries.
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Old 1st September 2010, 19:42   #146
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Can someone please suggest a good Inverter battery for me. I have been using Microtek 850VA for the past two years but they gave me some battery named Fujiya. It was good at the beginning but after nearly two years the backup time has reduced considerably.

Earlier it used to run a TV or a Laptop with a couple of fans for 4-5 hours whereas it gives me around approx 2 hours for running a fan now.

We experience power-cut for two hours daily and hence I am thinking of replacing this with some other battery.

I want to know if:

The current battery is at the end of its life?
What are the options available for me?
Approx cost for the new battery.

I have heard good feedback about Amaron Shield, but just wanted to check if there are any other options available.

And if anyone out here is using Amaron shield, please let me know how durable it is? Does it give the same level of performance after 2-3 years as in the beginning?

Sorry for the long post
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Old 2nd September 2010, 01:27   #147
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^^^Has been discussed before. We have an Amaron Sheld that is going good since last 5 years or so. Other option you can consider would be Base Terminal. Any of these two could be your best bet. It also depends on price and warranty you are getting. I would not touch an Exide.

To know if it has reached EoL, check specific gravity, terminal voltage (in the right way). Significantly reduced back itself says that its reaching it end; providing your inverter is doing its job of charging it properly.

Last edited by Raccoon : 2nd September 2010 at 01:29.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 10:19   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SchumiFan View Post
Can someone please suggest a good Inverter battery for me. I have been using Microtek 850VA for the past two years but they gave me some battery named Fujiya. It was good at the beginning but after nearly two years the backup time has reduced considerably.

Earlier it used to run a TV or a Laptop with a couple of fans for 4-5 hours whereas it gives me around approx 2 hours for running a fan now.

We experience power-cut for two hours daily and hence I am thinking of replacing this with some other battery.

I want to know if:

The current battery is at the end of its life?
What are the options available for me?
Approx cost for the new battery.

I have heard good feedback about Amaron Shield, but just wanted to check if there are any other options available.

And if anyone out here is using Amaron shield, please let me know how durable it is? Does it give the same level of performance after 2-3 years as in the beginning?

Sorry for the long post
I also got the Microtek 850 last year. This is a single battery model. What I did was to get a 150AH battery instead of the 100/120AH the dealer was pushing. The inverter + cabinet was less than 3,000, but the battery was nearly 10,000.

I have a couple of fans, a TV and 6-7 lights on. Till date the battery has not given up. The longest power cut was nearly 5 hours and the inverter was going strong. As I have mentioned in the previous post a 150AH battery would give at least 1200VA hour so for a five hour stint keep the total load below 250VA. Note that the total power capacity of a battery reduces at higher discharge, as the capacity is normally calculated for 10 hour discharge.

To prolong the battery life :

1. Keep the inverter in a cool and airy spot. The life decreases with increasing operating temperatures. Good ventilation will keep it cooler.

2. Check the water level every month, and top up if below the recommended level.

3. Get as big a capacity as you can afford. Then the discharge rate will be lower, running time longer and battery will run cooler.
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Old 2nd September 2010, 14:11   #149
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@schumifan.. go through this whole thread. It will give you a basic idea on the type of batteries and the brands. In my opinion only tubular batteries can give you more than 5 year life. I have seem lots of amaron shield go kaput after 2 years and also you wont get good backup. I have told before too. No one can beat the exide EL series in tubular batteries. They provide 4 and 5 year warranty. You will have piece of mind for at least that period.
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Old 8th September 2010, 12:03   #150
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This is the quotation I got for my Home-UPS:

MicroTek SineWave Inverter 850 VA
+
Exide 100 AH Maint free battery
+
Trolley + Installation
= Rs.14300/-

Guys, please let me know if this is a good deal and a reasonable setup.
I can stretch my budget till Rs.15500/-.
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