Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears > Gadgets, Computers & Software


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 20th November 2011, 14:10   #376
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,110
Thanked: 984 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudipta View Post
I just moved into my new rented apartment and they don't have provision for the inverter setup. The electricians are quoting very high for getting this done as they want to separate out the connections for heavy loads. The main is also 3 phase and the attached bathrooms are with the bedroom connection at the distribution switch (which includes Geyser).

It will be great if someone can help me with any suggestion/diagram of how this can be done in a simple way. As this is rented, I don't want to do something elaborate and expensive as I will be moving into my own flat in a years time.

Thanks in advance.
Normally you would have to check at the distribution board for -
. Circuits which have light connections only
. Circuits which have power connections only
. Circuits where light and power is mixed.

In case the light connections are not mixed with power, you just connect the Inverter on those circuits only. If the wiring is mixed, that is there are light and power on the same line, then you run a separate line for the light load, and let the existing wiring take care of power.

Additionally identify where power consuming devices (refrigerator, CRT TV, etc, devices which are not absolutely essential when power is cut) are connected on light circuit, and shift them to power circuit. Unless the circuits were planned to accept Inverter (that is there are separate circuits for light and power), you are in for an expensive modification.

Even after isolating the light circuits you may still have a load high enough to warrant a 1.5-2K VA Inverter, instead of the popular 0.8 KVA, single battery model. You will now have to further tune the device connectivity to fit your Inverter capacity.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2011, 12:27   #377
BHPian
 
Gurudatta Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Goa India
Posts: 139
Thanked: 77 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I am looking out for a Backup system for Home Use. The backup system should be able to sustain long(5hrs) power cuts.

My Backup Appliance:
Tubelights
Fans
CFL
CCTV & DVR - Security System

Total Max Power Consumption = 700 watts

I need suggestion on the below points:
  1. Home UPS (Sine wave) or Inverter (Sine wave) - Thinking of APC/ Su-Kam / Microtek.
  2. 1KVA is fine for my Usage?
  3. Which battery spec is suggested and the battery brand?
  4. UPS/Inverter Brand?

I am planing to keep the battery in an open atmosphere due to the harmful fumes. It will be protected with a Shield on top to protect it from rains & apply jelly on terminal frequently. Is this fine for a tabular battery?
Gurudatta Nayak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2011, 13:23   #378
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 7
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I am looking out for a Inverter for Home Use. We have daily power cuts of 4 hrs (2 Hrs at a time) with 3hr Interval

I need Backup for

2 Tubelights - 80 W
2 Fans - 80 W
5 CFL - 100 W
42" Plasma TV - 500 W
oxygen Generating Machine - 350 W
Modem, Router etc.. - 100 W

Total Power Consumption = 1300 watts

Had a Check with Sukam Dealer and got the Following Quote

Option 1 -

Sukam Smiley 1.4 KVA @ 7300/- (2yr Warranty)
Exide Invasafe 150 AH @ 10,800/- X 2 = 21,600/- (2yr Warranty)
Sukam Trolley @ 1400/- -------- i doubt whether it is useful or not
Installation free but Wiring at actuals.
Total Coming to Rs. 30,300/-.

Option 2 - I was asking for this.

Sukam Smiley 1.4 KVA @ 7300/- (2yr Warranty)
Exide InvaTubular (IT 500) 150 AH @ 13,300/- X 2 = 26,600/- (36+12 Warranty).
Sukam Iron Shelf @ 3500/- ( to take the Tubular Batteries).
Installation free but Wiring at actuals.
Total Coming to Rs. 37,400/-.

I am planing to keep the battery in an open atmosphere due to the harmful fumes. will apply jelly on terminal frequently. Is this fine for a tabular battery?

Please advise me regarding this. I have to make a decision and purchase this today or tomorrow.
avis_gan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2011, 13:50   #379
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,110
Thanked: 984 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurudatta Nayak View Post
I am looking out for a Backup system for Home Use. The backup system should be able to sustain long(5hrs) power cuts.

My Backup Appliance:
Tubelights
Fans
CFL
CCTV & DVR - Security System

Total Max Power Consumption = 700 watts

I need suggestion on the below points:
  1. Home UPS (Sine wave) or Inverter (Sine wave) - Thinking of APC/ Su-Kam / Microtek.
  2. 1KVA is fine for my Usage?
  3. Which battery spec is suggested and the battery brand?
  4. UPS/Inverter Brand?
I am planing to keep the battery in an open atmosphere due to the harmful fumes. It will be protected with a Shield on top to protect it from rains & apply jelly on terminal frequently. Is this fine for a tabular battery?
700W translates to approximately 1KVA. If the battery is to last 5 hours then you need 5KVAH, which means 5000/24 ~ 220AH with 2 batteries. For 5 hours discharge you will have to derate the capacity by 50%, as the full capacity is normally at 10-20 hours discharge rate (varies battery to battery). That means around 400AH in two batteries, or 200 AH with four batteries. Four battery 48V systems are better.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2011, 14:47   #380
BHPian
 
Gurudatta Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Goa India
Posts: 139
Thanked: 77 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
700W translates to approximately 1KVA. If the battery is to last 5 hours then you need 5KVAH, which means 5000/24 ~ 220AH with 2 batteries. For 5 hours discharge you will have to derate the capacity by 50%, as the full capacity is normally at 10-20 hours discharge rate (varies battery to battery). That means around 400AH in two batteries, or 200 AH with four batteries. Four battery 48V systems are better.
If I am going with 1KVA and 1 tabular Battery 150AH, will it be sufficient to give an output of 380watts? as that's the bear minimum required at my place.
How many hours it can supply backup?
Gurudatta Nayak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2011, 23:22   #381
UKR
BHPian
 
UKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Trivandrum/Bangalore
Posts: 90
Thanked: 2 Times
Question Re: Inverter Batteries

Hi, any one using smart ups range from APC? They have two types namely one with external battery and internal battery ones. Advantage of the former being that we can connect more batteries to extend backup time as required, but is a bit more expensive. Anyone know whether the internal battery models could be modified to connect external batteries and improve backup time?
UKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2011, 23:54   #382
BHPian
 
Gurudatta Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Goa India
Posts: 139
Thanked: 77 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Is anyone using Solar Powered UPS/Inverter in this forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKR View Post
Hi, any one using smart ups range from APC? They have two types namely one with external battery and internal battery ones. Advantage of the former being that we can connect more batteries to extend backup time as required, but is a bit more expensive. Anyone know whether the internal battery models could be modified to connect external batteries and improve backup time?
Hi,
I am Using APC Smart UPS SU750I. In this model we cannot add external batteries, I Confirmed this with APC India.


Here are some Snaps of Smart UPS
Attached Images
    

Last edited by Gurudatta Nayak : 21st November 2011 at 23:56.
Gurudatta Nayak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2011, 00:29   #383
UKR
BHPian
 
UKR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Trivandrum/Bangalore
Posts: 90
Thanked: 2 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurudatta Nayak View Post
Is anyone using Solar Powered UPS/Inverter in this forum?

Hi,
I am Using APC Smart UPS SU750I. In this model we cannot add external batteries, I Confirmed this with APC India.

Here are some Snaps of Smart UPS
Wow thanks a lot for the details and pics. Could you please tell what all are connected to your UPS and the backup time it provides?

Same was confirmed to me also by APC guys. But I was thinking about running two wires out of the unit and connecting them to external batteries. I think it might work alright except for the charging circuit which may need to be altered or add an external charging circuit to supply more current to charge the additional batteries not sure though.
UKR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2011, 09:52   #384
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,110
Thanked: 984 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurudatta Nayak View Post
If I am going with 1KVA and 1 tabular Battery 150AH, will it be sufficient to give an output of 380watts? as that's the bear minimum required at my place.
How many hours it can supply backup?
As far as I know, 1KVA inverters are all 24V devices, hence use two batteries.

150AH means 150*12 = 1.8KVAH, or about 4 hours at 400VA. The rub is that at 4 hours the battery will be derated to about 750%, so you get 2-2.5 hours capacity.

Here is the technical literature for your perusal
http://www.sfindustrial4u.com/upload_file/3_6STP.pdf

For tubular the derating is less and the literature says 83% for 5 hours. For flat plate it is higher
http://www.sfindustrial4u.com/upload..._SQ300-450.pdf
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2011, 10:31   #385
Senior - BHPian
 
Gansan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Chennai
Posts: 3,423
Thanked: 869 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

@Aroy
It has been 12 days since I bought the new inverter+battery but the battery full charge lamp has still not come on. Ditto for a neighbor who bought an identical set the same day. The battery is Exide EL+ 150, tall tubular with 60 months warranty. I called the technician and he checked the charging current with an amps meter, it shows 0.6 Amps, which he says is secondary charge. We have just a one hour power cut every day from 5 PM - 6 PM currently, so the battery can't be really discharged.

I checked with the inverter manufacturer and he says they discharged the battery deeply for checking at their place before delivery and it was not fully charged, so it will take some weeks before the light comes on, due to the low secondary charge. According to him the charge rate will get faster for this battery only after a couple or three deep discharges. Is this correct? I check the battery twice a day for heating but no, it remains cool. The inverter otherwise performs normally during power outages.
Gansan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2011, 17:18   #386
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,110
Thanked: 984 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
@Aroy
It has been 12 days since I bought the new inverter+battery but the battery full charge lamp has still not come on. Ditto for a neighbor who bought an identical set the same day. The battery is Exide EL+ 150, tall tubular with 60 months warranty. I called the technician and he checked the charging current with an amps meter, it shows 0.6 Amps, which he says is secondary charge. We have just a one hour power cut every day from 5 PM - 6 PM currently, so the battery can't be really discharged.

I checked with the inverter manufacturer and he says they discharged the battery deeply for checking at their place before delivery and it was not fully charged, so it will take some weeks before the light comes on, due to the low secondary charge. According to him the charge rate will get faster for this battery only after a couple or three deep discharges. Is this correct? I check the battery twice a day for heating but no, it remains cool. The inverter otherwise performs normally during power outages.
Never faced this problem.

Points to a defective Inverter. Before declaring it so :-

. Check the voltage at the battery terminals, both with the terminals connected and disconnected. This will give you the charging voltage and the battery voltage. Check this against the voltages in the technical sheet

.As you know when the power will go, and you say it goes for one hour a day, let the battery discharge after the power comes, by disconnecting the mains. At least one discharge would show whether there is any thing wrong with the charging circuit or not.

It may also happen that the mains is coming at a low voltage. Check it. If so, then you may have to ask the inverter supplier to boost the voltage by changing the transformer taps (if any), or else put a normal voltage stabilizer before the inverter mains input.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2011, 10:19   #387
BHPian
 
Gurudatta Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Goa India
Posts: 139
Thanked: 77 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by UKR View Post
Wow thanks a lot for the details and pics. Could you please tell what all are connected to your UPS and the backup time it provides?

Same was confirmed to me also by APC guys. But I was thinking about running two wires out of the unit and connecting them to external batteries. I think it might work alright except for the charging circuit which may need to be altered or add an external charging circuit to supply more current to charge the additional batteries not sure though.
I have connected the security system to the UPS with around 55W power consumption. I get around 1.5+ hour of backup. The Output is sine wave as per the company.

I was also planning to connect external batteries for long backup...let me know if you find solution for external battery.
Gurudatta Nayak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2011, 13:48   #388
BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: chennai
Posts: 308
Thanked: 110 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I have opened the inverter box just to check whats inside. Massive transformer occupying the space with a small board consist of PIC16F microprocessor and 12 high current mosfets. I am sure there will be some software which can interpret with the processor hence float voltage can be changed accordingly. It looks like a single stage constant current charging system at the moment it cuts off when the voltage touches 14.4V and resumes charging around 13.2V. The circuit board is same as from this website
GKE-MT-850VA- S/W Inverter Kit

:: Gurukirpa Electronics ::
vijaycool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2011, 14:29   #389
BHPian
 
Gurudatta Nayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Goa India
Posts: 139
Thanked: 77 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Can anyone help me to put off the beep sound when on battery..it disturbs me a lot.

Model: APC SU750I
Gurudatta Nayak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5th December 2011, 13:55   #390
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: hyderabad
Posts: 0
Thanked: 0 Times
Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I got APC 850 sine with Amaron Powerzone 1500 MF. Instead of PZ-INV-1500 MF, the retailer gave me PZ-HCV-1500 MF.

Is it ok running an inverter on PZ-HCV-1500 MF ?
kuriancm is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inverter or generator? mrhap Gadgets, Computers & Software 728 12th August 2017 02:46
Car Battery to 220V AC convertor / inverter for charging laptop etc sreeku In-Car Entertainment 163 25th September 2016 23:00
Myth: UPS can't run on inverter? linuxtechie Gadgets, Computers & Software 17 24th October 2008 15:47


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:03.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks