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Old 20th April 2012, 18:04   #466
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Has anyone here used Autobat batteries? I have never heard of this Made in Pune brand. All inverter dealers I called so far are swearing by it. They have a 2 year free replacement warranty and a +3 year prorata replacement warranty with the battery.
I am happy with brands like Exide / Amaron, etc.
I seriously advise do not go for any local brand batteries even if dealer swear for his life. There is big risk in it and you will not get warranty in legal form (Warranty Card). Even, if you get you they will not value it when actual need arises.

I had bad experience with local battery at my hometown and everyone sweared by it. It worked only for 8 months and it was not giving proper promised backup.

Go for reputed branded battery whatever may be the case. Warranty is big thing in these heavy duty batteries. Also, there is some science required to build quality battery. I think local manufacturer is far far away from this.
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Old 20th April 2012, 19:04   #467
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Has anyone here used Autobat batteries? I have never heard of this Made in Pune brand. All inverter dealers I called so far are swearing by it. They have a 2 year free replacement warranty and a +3 year prorata replacement warranty with the battery.
I am happy with brands like Exide / Amaron, etc.
Have heard from a reliable source that they are pretty good. No personal experience though. Dunno how they compare with Amaron. Compare price and warranty terms. I'd go for them over Exide anytime... hehe!
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Old 20th April 2012, 19:18   #468
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by anujmishra View Post
I seriously advise do not go for any local brand batteries even if dealer swear for his life.
You had a bad experience, that does not mean all local batteries are bad.

I own a 2.5KVA UPS at home running on local tubular battery (dont even have a name) running without a single service since 7 (SEVEN) years. Even today (after 7 years) It can easily take a load of 3 TV's, a computer, fridge and n number of fans and CFLs all day long. All it needs is 3 bottles of Distill water every 6-8 months.

So, there are good local batteries too.
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Old 21st April 2012, 11:28   #469
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Has anyone here used Autobat batteries? I have never heard of this Made in Pune brand. All inverter dealers I called so far are swearing by it. They have a 2 year free replacement warranty and a +3 year prorata replacement warranty with the battery.
I am happy with brands like Exide / Amaron, etc.
I have this for my inverter for last 2 years. I think its 180Ah or 190 Ah one and its working fine. There arent many power cuts in Pune so its difficult to comment on performance though.
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Old 21st April 2012, 14:41   #470
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Is it true that SMF batteries are not as suitable for indian conditions as the traditional lead acid ones where you have to top with water. A local battery dealer said sealed batteries arent suitable here, and I was just wondering because most cars nowadays anyway have SMF. IS it better to avoid that for inverters? ALso are tubular batteries available in both versions?
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Old 22nd April 2012, 01:03   #471
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Not true grazd, SMFs are the best bet for residential usage, see my old post on the subject below.


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Originally Posted by grazd View Post
Is it true that SMF batteries are not as suitable for indian conditions as the traditional lead acid ones where you have to top with water. A local battery dealer said sealed batteries arent suitable here, and I was just wondering because most cars nowadays anyway have SMF. IS it better to avoid that for inverters? ALso are tubular batteries available in both versions?


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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Please, I have heard enough on the SMF life being short. It is an old grandmothers tale.

I have been using SMF batteries in our office UPS systems for more than a decade and at my residences for 4 years + now and speak from my own experience. The initial Komatsu SMFs bought from Elnova lasted 7+ years and the second set is running fine. The Sukams are performing as good as they were on day 1. If these periods are not long enough then nothing ever will be.

BTW what is this explosion that you are speaking of. The electrolyte in the SMF is in form of a gel with which flame retardent is premixed. If anything it is the normal batteries (tubular or otherwise) with ons of acid splashing around inside that are prone to all sorts of troubles.

Also the fumes coming out of the battery are anything but Hydrogen, these are a potent combo of Lead + Acid. maybe someone with roots in Chemistry can elaborate.

My post is not meant to offend or slight but it is my request that we speak based on experience and not hearsay.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 05:55   #472
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

A couple of dealers have also told me not to use SMF for inverters. I had an Exide SMF which lasted for barely 1.5 years. I currently use an Exide NonTubular inverter battery which has done 4 years now.

Anyway, I have a question. The current battery seems to be on it's last legs. One of the cells (the first one - one connected to the negative lead) drinks water like crazy. 10 days back, it was filled full - even beyond maximum. Now it looks like it's going to come to to the minimum mark within the next few days. How long do you think it can keep going by regularly topping up water?

The battery guy said that the cell is near dead. There is no problem in the charging however - the battery gets charged to full.

Another thing - my inverter is 800 VA Microtek & the battery is 150 AH. What's the lowest battery I can go for with this - the battery guys are saying 100 AH. Can I go any lower than that? The thing is that I rarely have electricity cuts at where I am now.

Last edited by carboy : 22nd April 2012 at 05:57.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 08:58   #473
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

@khoj
thanks for sharing your experience, that's certainly a valuable data point, sorry for not reading thru the entire thread. Battery technology is another vast and intricate area. I still have a few questions about SMF/VRLA: whether their undoubted advantages can compensate for the potential negatives:

Quote:
- Longer recharge time than flooded lead-acid
- "Sealed" batteries cannot tolerate overcharging: overcharging leads to premature failure.
- Shorter useful life. (of course your experience clearly proves this may not eb true)
VRLA battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
also maybe in a well designed inverter system , each of the above drawbacks could be avoided or minimised.

I was more concerned about the below point by r2d2, does the normal ambient temperature in a house (say 20-30degC) also affect VRLAs in a negative way compared to flooded batteries?


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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
In hot tropical countries like India, flooded batteries have an advantage over SMF (which are ambient temp and charging voltage sensitive) as water can be topped off whenever required. That said, there are several advantages SMFs have over flooded batteries and they are preferred in most applications.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 10:03   #474
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by grazd View Post
Is it true that SMF batteries are not as suitable for indian conditions as the traditional lead acid ones where you have to top with water. A local battery dealer said sealed batteries arent suitable here, and I was just wondering because most cars nowadays anyway have SMF. IS it better to avoid that for inverters? ALso are tubular batteries available in both versions?
All inverter and car batteries are lead acid batteries. It is only their construction that differs. The car SMF batteries are flooded batteries, low maintenance batteries but NOT quite maintenance free. While the SMF in UPSes e.g. Exide Powersafe or Amaron Quanta are gell cell VRLA batteries. These are completely sealed. They are two different types for different applications.

It is the nature of gell cell VRLA batteries i.e. SMF used mainly in computer UPS applications, to be sensitive to charging voltages, ambient temps and loss of water. These batteries need replacement every 2-3 years as per mfr recommendations in this application. In SMF VRLA there is no way to top off water if it drops due to over while you can do so for tubular batteries that are used for 'inverters' i.e home UPSes. Also, VRLA batteries are more expensive than tubular or plate batteries. Read more at Battery University or Batteryfaq (I had posted the links in an earlier post, request that you Google for the links).

If I were you I'd go in for tubular. Have an Exide InvaTubular 165AH running for problem free nearly 2.5 years now. Just top off water every 2-3 months

Cheers!

Last edited by R2D2 : 22nd April 2012 at 10:05.
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Old 22nd April 2012, 17:04   #475
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

You raise valid points.

I believe it always helps when the system is well balanced as in the components compliment each other. My inverter system in Dilli is completely from Sukam i.e both the inverter and the two SMFs are manufactured by Sukam. The one in Bombay is from Amaron (inverter + battery, trolley is Sukam )

As for the effect of the ambient, well in my house the sytem is placed on/in a trolley. Inverter on top (open) and the batteries beneath in two tiers (open from behind). The entire system is placed outside on our terrace albiet under shade but otherwise exposed to Dilli's extreme weather 4 degC to 44 degC and dust, fog, etc etc. The only problem I have had in the four plus years since installation was a blown fuse due to overload. Batteries are still going strong.

Compared to the above scenario if placed indoors I expect the SMFs to last even longer and of course in my opinion an indoor install must be done using only SMFs for obvious reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grazd View Post
I still have a few questions about SMF/VRLA:

also maybe in a well designed inverter system , each of the above drawbacks could be avoided or minimised.

I was more concerned about the below point by r2d2, does the normal ambient temperature in a house (say 20-30degC) also affect VRLAs in a negative way compared to flooded batteries?
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Old 23rd April 2012, 13:15   #476
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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@esteem_lover
If its APC BI850Sine, your quote seems to be on the higher side.
I had quotes starting from 5800 to 6500.
Yes, it is the APC BI850Sine. Is the price ok for the AMCO 180ah battery(14.5k) and what is the feedback on AMCO. It used to be good on our old KH.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 14:04   #477
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Yes, it is the APC BI850Sine. Is the price ok for the AMCO 180ah battery(14.5k) and what is the feedback on AMCO. It used to be good on our old KH.
Amco is good, but make sure it has a "T" like 100 T, to make sure it is tubular instead of "F."
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Old 23rd April 2012, 16:08   #478
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Yes, it is the APC BI850Sine. Is the price ok for the AMCO 180ah battery(14.5k) and what is the feedback on AMCO. It used to be good on our old KH.
Once upon a time Amco used to make great batteries. But that was Amco Yuasa. The Amco of today makes crappy dangerous batteries (which leak and fume & ruin your vehicle besides having a short life. Just like its ugly big brother: Exide). Many others have had the same experiences and it has been discussed in other threads. But to be fair, this is true for their automotive batteries. No personal experience with their inverter batteries and I'm not ready to touch them with a barge pole. Not when much better brands are available at the same or better price.

Last edited by Raccoon : 23rd April 2012 at 16:11.
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Old 23rd April 2012, 16:35   #479
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by livyodream View Post
You had a bad experience, that does not mean all local batteries are bad.

I own a 2.5KVA UPS at home running on local tubular battery (dont even have a name) running without a single service since 7 (SEVEN) years. Even today (after 7 years) It can easily take a load of 3 TV's, a computer, fridge and n number of fans and CFLs all day long. All it needs is 3 bottles of Distill water every 6-8 months.

So, there are good local batteries too.
I bought a Benson brand UPS in Bangalore in 1998 with their branded tubular batteries. Till today (14 years) these batteries are running fine with only the regular cleaning of terminals and distilled water top up. Tubular batteries give the best life. And yes, local batteries can give you good service.

Last edited by John : 23rd April 2012 at 16:37.
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Old 25th April 2012, 12:46   #480
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by John View Post
I bought a Benson brand UPS in Bangalore in 1998 with their branded tubular batteries. Till today (14 years) these batteries are running fine with only the regular cleaning of terminals and distilled water top up. Tubular batteries give the best life. And yes, local batteries can give you good service.
Wow ! 14 years is 5 life times for modern batteries, that is terrific. How is the back up time now ?
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