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Old 7th July 2012, 16:01   #541
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by vijaycool View Post
Check Rocket tubular batteries with warranty

I thought Rocket was Korean imported battery. I had checked it out for my car. The price was very similar to Exide.
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Old 26th August 2012, 14:36   #542
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Hi Friends,

Am from Hyderabad, want to buy a home UPS for

3 Fans - only 2 would be used mostly
3 Tubelights -only 2 would be used mostly
2 CFL's - used sparingly
2 Laptops

Have zeroed in on APC BI850SINE (0.85Kva) - offer from APC.com
Above mentioned UPS with 130 AH ulta tubular battery ( 3 yrs guarantee) and 'Hope' export trolley, brochure says 500 Watts.

Cost - Rs 14, 750, Hyd transportation Rs 450 extra - So around Rs 15.2 K

A dealer here was saying same UPS with APC flat 120 AH battery and local trolley - Rs 16k. I asked him to get back with Amaron and Exide Tubular battery costs.

Questions:
1. Is 500 W ok for the above mentioned requirements for at least 2.5 Hrs period twice - power goes for 2 hours in an interval of 4 hours of each other and then also goes for 15 -20 mts several times later.
2. Is 130 AH Ultra Tubular Battery ok? Is APC brand battery good or should I go for Exide etc? Is it ok to get it from them directly ot should I get it from a dealer?
3. Is the package good? Or should I look at Sukham etc
4. My Delhi House has had Sukham Invertor and has been running great fro 7 yrs now on one battery without any replacement required ever. Do I go for Sukham?
5. I would ideally prefer SMF batteries but I was told wont get a guarantee if i use it with an inverter.

Prompt help would be appreciated!!
My Budget is 20 K
Thanks!

Last edited by anu_romil : 26th August 2012 at 14:41. Reason: spelling
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Old 26th August 2012, 20:01   #543
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by anu_romil View Post
Hi Friends,

Am from Hyderabad, want to buy a home UPS for

3 Fans - only 2 would be used mostly
3 Tubelights -only 2 would be used mostly
2 CFL's - used sparingly
2 Laptops

Have zeroed in on APC BI850SINE (0.85Kva) - offer from APC.com
Above mentioned UPS with 130 AH ulta tubular battery ( 3 yrs guarantee) and 'Hope' export trolley, brochure says 500 Watts.

Cost - Rs 14, 750, Hyd transportation Rs 450 extra - So around Rs 15.2 K

A dealer here was saying same UPS with APC flat 120 AH battery and local trolley - Rs 16k. I asked him to get back with Amaron and Exide Tubular battery costs.

Questions:
1. Is 500 W ok for the above mentioned requirements for at least 2.5 Hrs period twice - power goes for 2 hours in an interval of 4 hours of each other and then also goes for 15 -20 mts several times later.
2. Is 130 AH Ultra Tubular Battery ok? Is APC brand battery good or should I go for Exide etc? Is it ok to get it from them directly ot should I get it from a dealer?
3. Is the package good? Or should I look at Sukham etc
4. My Delhi House has had Sukham Invertor and has been running great fro 7 yrs now on one battery without any replacement required ever. Do I go for Sukham?
5. I would ideally prefer SMF batteries but I was told wont get a guarantee if i use it with an inverter.

Prompt help would be appreciated!!
My Budget is 20 K
Thanks!
Your load is
2 fans = 2x70w=140w
2 tubes = 2 x 60w = 120w
2 cfl = 2 x 20w = 40w
2 laptops = 2 x 100w = 200w

Total of 500W. If I were you I would leave the laptops as they have their own battery, then you have 300W

Now the time
130AH = 130 x 12 = 1560 WA
if you include 90% efficiency you get about 1400 WA. At 300W you have 1400/300 = 4+ hours of backup.

Now comes the down side.

- A 130AH battery is rated so at 10 hours discharge. For 4 hours discharge it derates to at least 80AH.
- The optimum charging time is again 10 hours, so if you discharge the battery it will require 10 hours to charge. The so called fast charge will do a 90% recharge in 5 hours.
- If power goe for 2 hours, and you have 50% charge left, the battery will gain only 20-30% charge in next two hours so after two hours you have 50+20=70% charge, and so on. Hence you may run out of battery, even after taking the laptops out, if you have frequent power outages. This assumes that the voltage is correct between the outages. Normally there is a low voltage between frequent outages, and the battery may not charge efficiently; if at all; in such conditions.

In my opinion either get a bigger battery, say 150AH or even better 200AH. Alternatively install the inverter and monitor the performance for a week, as the power consumption figures used in my calculation may be on the higher side, and you may just about be able to make it with one battery of 130AH, but my recommendation is to go for a higher capacity. If you run out of juice, then experiment by using less tube lights and more CFL.
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Old 26th August 2012, 22:15   #544
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Get at least a 150 AH battery.
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Old 27th August 2012, 13:32   #545
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Post Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
install the inverter and monitor the performance for a week, as the power consumption figures used in my calculation may be on the higher side...
Since there is no Thanks-button for this thread, Thanks Aroy!

Your advise will be very useful to me, since I face more than 8 hours of power-cuts daily (Tamilnadu).
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Old 27th August 2012, 16:35   #546
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by manim View Post
Since there is no Thanks-button for this thread, Thanks Aroy!

Your advise will be very useful to me, since I face more than 8 hours of power-cuts daily (Tamilnadu).
In that case cater to at least 16 hours of backup capacity.

Alternatively a diesel generator will be a better bet, especially you need to run a couple of air conditioners.
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Old 27th August 2012, 20:15   #547
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Many Thanks Aroy!! This info was very valuable.

I have received a sales proposal by sending an enquiry at apc website, which I mentioned above. However, I have been calling the cell number they mention there and after 2 calls on 2 days, the person ont he line says - he wall call in 2 mts and then doesnt call.

So much so for new customer acquisition service, wonder how after sales service would be.

Also saw the same model at Reliance electronics store at Inorbit Mall, Hyderabad and they quote - Rs 5900 for the UPS but they are out of any batteries at the moment. Two presto batteries they have are defective they say.

Another local delaer is giving the UPS at Rs 5500, and on enquiry of Excide tall tubular 150 AH says Rs 15000, 4 yrs warranty, and trolley free. UPS warranty - 2 yrs. Installation RS 800. So total - Rs 21 K around. Is this a good deal? Also has APC 1KVA at 7500 rs if i want that - 660 W.

Strongly recommends Sukham 850 at Rs 6400 saying non transformed UPS's ( APC) will take a long time to charge back in case of frequent power cuts and also give high electricity bills. Not sure if its true or margins that are behind his persuation efforts.
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Old 28th August 2012, 16:18   #548
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

^^^When we needed a new inverter+battery few months ago, we inquired with APC. Their response left nothing to be desired. They even called back to check if their dealer gave me a satisfactory reply. Everything was super fast and professional. But sadly their quote was just way higher than Sukam (who were ready to buy back their old inverter at a good price). Since the difference was just too tempting, got a Sukam and Amaron battery (tubular) again. The old Amaron was a thick a plate Amaron battery and yet it lasted about 5-6 years. I'd suggest the same to you, if you don't want to spend more on APC. The Amaron battery was also substantially cheaper than equivalent Exide (goes without saying that I would not have bought an Exide at any cost, but I did take quotes from everywhere, anyway).
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Old 28th August 2012, 17:06   #549
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Oh wow, sounds nice. Good to hear good reviews amongst all the bad ones.But Sukham seems more costly - there was a diff of Rs 600 or so b/w APC and Sukham, same 850 va range - I was surprised.

I called back to the APC offer number again and the person said he has so may people calling on the offer that he cannot attend on time. and then he talked for 2 mts and said I will send an sms of teh details and call back- and then cut the phone.

The sms arrived - So the deal is the same - the battery is ultra tubular ( Bicron Power)

Now, I have heard too many bad reviews about Bicron at Mouthshut and on APC - I guess the bad reviews on APC might have been because of the battery.

B850 va combo - Rs 14.7k + installation and freight ( Rs 450). Btatrey 130 AH
B 1000 va combo - Rs 25.9k

Mode of paymnet - net transfer accepted.shipping from Blore the next day.

Please advise - whether to go for this one or get a local delaer supply the same UPS with Exice tall tubular 150 AH, 4 yrs warranty - Rs 21k. ( theres a diff of Rs 6 k around for 850 va)

I registered at APC website - so I think APC has tied up with Bicron officially. But the reviews of Bicron are bad.

Want to take APC but dont know which dealer to trust at Hyderabad. Bicron Bangalore has bad reviews. No major outlets have inverters right now - Reliance has APC but no battery. Even if I choose Sukham - there are no options from Electronic biggies - will have to reply on local dealers

Last edited by anu_romil : 28th August 2012 at 17:12. Reason: spelling
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Old 28th August 2012, 18:30   #550
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

^^^Personally, this is the choice I might make - 1st APC then Sukam, but depends on price. As for battery, you are probably better off not going for Bicron, since you say it has bad reviews (never heard of the brand personally), even if its coming thru APC. Just get a Amaron tubular. You will get low price and better (if not best in India) quality; so whats difficult to decide? Or you can even check out Base Terminal/Panasonic and let price, warranty, dealer (service level) make the decision. As for service, after installing our old thick plate Amaron, we forgot about service. Initially, the electrolyte was checked and topped up once a year or so (yes, very low maintainence). Thats it. Never needed any "service" from the dealer; and thats how it should be. However, it matters while installing. Some dealers employ extremely low grade assistants/helpers/technicians. Try to get a feel of him and the place and avoid those like the plague.

There is another (lesser known) battery brand that is supposed to be pretty good. But can't recall the name offhand. But surprisingly their quote was same or li'l higher than Amaron. Many people have had very good experiences with even smaller brands or shall is say no-brands? But I find that to be a dicy game unless you have a way to know for sure what you are getting.

Last edited by Raccoon : 28th August 2012 at 18:42.
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Old 28th August 2012, 18:36   #551
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Go for

1. Lowest capacity UPS you can live with. It will consume less power when on mains, as well as waste less battery resources when delivering 200-400W of output == longer backup time. If available get one between 500VA and 650VA, enough for 400W of appliances.

2. Definitely go for a 150AH full tubular battery. Choose one which has the best warranty terms. Be careful, a 5 years warranty may have 2 years replacement and next 3 years of "proportionate" clause, which means they depreciate the battery during this period.
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Old 28th August 2012, 21:27   #552
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Thanks Raccon and Aroy again, for your help.

A correction - I got to speak to a APC Manager and they said the Bicron deal was not their company's. I dont know how I was contacted by them after filling up a contact us form at APC. Maybe a co incidence.

Reliance Digital - had connected me to APC manager when they reported that they have AMCO 120 AH Yuasa battery and also one APC 120 AH battery. The manager said the APC was third party manufactured and on asking for a higher spec battery advised amarraja 150 AH from amaron.Surprisingly on asking, he advised against Exide with APC ( personal opinion, he said)

The Sukham at Croma store are out of stock. They have one 1.4 KVA with SMF's at 39 K.Another Reliance store has Luminous inverter only.

I am thinking of going with the local dealer - either APC or Sukham 800/850 VA and Amarraja 150 AH/Exide 150 AH. OR Reliance - APC 850 + APC ULTRA TUBULAR battery 120 AH (with Trolley of Rs 1300, total - Rs 6k + 11k + 1300 = Rs 18.3k).Reliance's quote of the APC inverter is costly by Rs 400 and also the battery is untested and of lower spec.

Turns out my inverter buying decision was tough than the car buying decision.

Last edited by anu_romil : 28th August 2012 at 21:31. Reason: spell
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Old 2nd September 2012, 23:52   #553
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Dear Friends,

I finalized on Amaron 150 AH SMF ( 2 yrs warranty - Rs 12K) + Sukam 850 va ( 2 yrs warranty - Rs 5.5 k) finally although I had earlier asked the dealer for Exide 150 AH Invatubular ( Rs 13.7k).

Reason for change of battery choice - Can live with a battery wearing out in 1 year but not with the thought of lead fumes spoiling our health - I had asthma once.

Now the funny part - The dealer by mistake delivered the same Exide battery I chose earlier and Crompton Greaves 850 VA ( DSP) inverter instead of Sukam - and after 2 hrs of wiring issues - I got it installed with the assurance that I could just change the inverter and battery tomorrow - paid them just 10k today.

Question -

1. Lead fumes issue - Somehow the battery got wet while delivery, in the packaging, as it was raining - I was upset but after carefully wiping the top portion, got it installed till tomorrow as we are having frequent powercuts and the electrician said it was safe after wiping..There was a strange smell in the room as soon as it was switched on for about 2 mts - suspect it was lead fumes as the battery top had got wet. It subsided later and its not there anymore.The electrician said it might have happened cz of the water but not to worry.

2. I like the DSP wave feature in CG which is not there at other inverters - although I have no idea about CG inverter's performance - it also doesnt have switches at the back saying if 150 ah battery, connect to this one, 120 ah to this and so on.Sukam had this. The fan etc make almost no noise and the reduction in speed is very low.The electrician told with Sukam it will be slightly more, but he still recommended Sukam. The LCD tv we have worked perfectly fine when power went away later and there was no externally visible hinderance/effect on its functioning even though its on 'normal' and not UPS mode.The dealer strongly recommends CG for applicance safety with dsp waves, followed by Sukam.

3. Shoukd I let the CG inverter be - although it costs rs 500 more, per the delaer.SMF - not willing to compromise on this especially after I myself witnessed the lead fumnes earlier today.Also will SMF spec have to be 150 AH ?The electrician had no multimeter, so not sure how to ensure that CG inverter is connected to the exide battery now/ smf battery later at the correct charge if its CG. If its Sukam - i would have the switches behind it for battery spec, most probably.

Experts pls advise.

Last edited by anu_romil : 3rd September 2012 at 00:00. Reason: spell
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Old 4th September 2012, 16:03   #554
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

The fumes from a Lead Acid battery are normally water vapour (with a trace of sulphuric acid, that too if it gets really hot) plus hydrogen and oxygen (by products of the chemistry), normally lead is not released.

http://www.uwsa.edu/oslp/em/complian...y_leadacid.htm

here is more information on chemistry
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/jom...lson-0101.html

In an SMF battery the electrolyte is a gel, which absorbs the gasses released, hence in general operation no gas is released. BUT in case excess current is drawn, the gas build up can become dangerous, and the battery can heat up tremendously. The following link discusses maintenance of SMF batteries.
http://www.elnova.com/smfbattery/smf...pplication.htm
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Old 5th September 2012, 14:19   #555
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Thanks Aroy, so should I retain this set up and cancel SMF plan

Also advise on the CG inverter vs Sukam inverte choice and how to measure that the batteries are being charged at the correct level for 150 AH batteries as CG doesnt have a switch at the back for this.Also doesnt SMF come with a safety valve so its explosion proof?

I need to make the replacements by tomorrow or so.

Thanks

Last edited by anu_romil : 5th September 2012 at 14:20. Reason: spell
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