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Old 17th April 2013, 19:42   #676
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Well i stay in bangalore where APC inverters/ups are made and i can confirm that the 1000va model is still sold and manufactured.

@Guite
You can go ahead and connect the two 100ah batteries in parallel and put the charge setting at the max of 15A it should charge the batteries in around 14hrs from 20% discharged state to 100% capacity.

A inverter or a UPS has charge controller which is only going to read the battery voltage and once it reaches the peak voltage it will gradually start to reduce the charge current and then goes into trickle charging with very low current typically in milliamps to maintain the batteries at float voltage.It doesn't know how many batteries are connected in parallel or whats the capacity of the battery.So its perfectly safe to connect the batteries in parallel.

Apc mentions connecting in parallel in the single sheet of paper which usually comes with a APC UPS which run on external batteries.
The APC customer care is well a customer care who have zero knowledge in this and can only tell what they know they know nothing more then the specs and basic trouble shooting.

In my 24v APC UPS extended run UPS i have connected a total of 4 batteries two in series and two in parallel.
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Old 17th April 2013, 19:53   #677
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
Well i stay in bangalore where APC inverters/ups are made and i can confirm that the 1000va model is still sold and manufactured..
Do you work for APC? If yes, I hope that they make a 1.5 KVA some day and I will be tempted to shift in a few years. A drop from a new 1.5 to 1KVA doesn't make much sense.

The costliest part of the inverter system is the battery. The 200AH Exide Tubular batteries cost me nearly Rs 20K/unit. Prices have gone thru the roof!

I am currently in the process of purchasing a new APC 2.2 KVA UPS for one of my PCs.
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Old 17th April 2013, 22:08   #678
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

No i don't work for APC but i just recently 2 weeks back bought 2x 1000VA models for my relatives.

They do have Smart UPS of both Line-interactive and Online type all the way upto 10KVA+.

Their Smart range of UPS such SUA1000UXI two battery (24v) and SUA2200UXI ,SUA3000UXI four battery (48v) models are one of most efficient UPS around. They can handle 800watt, 1980watt and 2700watt respectively thats a power factor of .80 for 1000va and .90 for others which is one of the highest i have ever seen in the industry and these are global products.

On the other hand when you compare that to their made for india Home UPS/inverters such as 850SINE has a power factor of just .59 which is poor due to single battery and even their home ups/inverter BI1000VA model has a power factor of .66 which is better due to dual battery 24v.

I know a few offices in my street which have 3000VA to 5000VA APC UPS powering everything from lights/fans to computers.The only thing you can't connect are Air conditioners,Motor Pump,refrigerators because of their high Inrush current.

Last edited by aim120 : 17th April 2013 at 22:09.
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Old 17th April 2013, 22:39   #679
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
@Guite
You can go ahead and connect the two 100ah batteries in parallel and put the charge setting at the max of 15A it should charge the batteries in around 14hrs from 20% discharged state to 100% capacity.
It turns out I will not have to purchase a new inverter just yet. A local mechanic has repaired it. He changed some parts, what exactly I don't know because my wife was coordinating at home. Hope the new parts does not compromise anything.

The long story: one fine day the inverter refused to supply the mains power through. After contacting APC CC it was taken to nearest service centre. They said since model is out of circulation, part has to be ordered from Bangalore, and it will take some days. It's pertinent note here that they made a sales pitch for a new product.

The promised two days turned to five days, after which they finally said part not available. During the wait we had hired an inverter from a local shop. He had initially offered to repair it but I wanted it done by authorised centre. Ultimately I had to get in done locally.

Not a very pleasant experience, a company service centre not willing to repair because they want to sell new piece. Even on subsequent follow up the APC CC kept referring us back to the same service centre: they were of not much help.
Quote:
It doesn't know how many batteries are connected in parallel or whats the capacity of the battery.
Two questions:
1. Does charging and drawing of current happen uniformly across the two batteries connected in parallel?
2. If the charge level and voltage of the two are slightly different, what will the inverter read: average / higher / lower?
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Old 17th April 2013, 22:47   #680
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

@aim120 recent purchases of the 1KVA home inverter may have been due to left over stocks. Dealers in 2 large cities i.e. in Chennai and Pune have confirmed that APC has stopped production. Rather unfortunate because this was my 1st preference. But an efficiency rating of 60% is abysmal.

Yes, I am aware of APC's range, having used them for several years at home and at my employers' who have traditionally preferred either APC or Emerson power management equipment.

I would have asked for the Smart UPS range, using external batteries, instead of the Su Kam but costs become pretty prohibitive. Luckily we don't face many power failures in my area of Pune except for 10 minutes or so every 2-3 days. I guess that is due to the deliberate switch overs at the sub stations. I went in for a VFM solution that will last me a few years at least.

MSEB has made it clear only areas that have good bill collection i.e. where people pay for energy consumed will have continuous power supply. Others will face load shedding. I am glad they suddenly woke up to reality. But this power comes at a price - going from Rs 2.5 per unit at the lowest slab to nearly Rs 10 at max inclusive of and taxes & surcharges . What MSEB has also done is attached electronic meters to HT transformers feeding into housing colonies and individual connections to help make it easier to track power theft. Paying for electricity in MH State does help to alleviate load shedding issues in summer. My in-laws who live KA have also seen an improvement in the power situation compared to the early to mid 2000s.

The SUA2200I that I use (4 17AH SMF batteries in series for a nominal voltage of 48VDC) has an efficiency rating of 90% which is excellent. I plan to buy the same model as mentioned below. This has been superseded by a newer model (SMT 2200) which uses an LCD display instead of LEDs and has better efficiency. It has not been introduced in most countries and is available in USA and EU.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Two questions:
1. Does charging and drawing of current happen uniformly across the two batteries connected in parallel?
2. If the charge level and voltage of the two are slightly different, what will the inverter read: average / higher / lower?
In theory when the batteries are connected in parallel it should be uniform. AFAIK (I could be wrong) In case of a 2 battery parallel string where 1 battery is in a better shape than the other, the inverter will assume the capacity of the lower as the applicable and switch over to float. For e.g. if a set of batteries have 200AH each but due to age one of them has deteriorated to 180AH and the other has maintained its capacity, the inverter will sense 180AH as max capacity. What this does is it leaves the 'good' battery a bit undercharged. Therefore, it is preferable to replace both batteries as a set. Differences in batteries due to deterioration caused by age/use is more acute in a series connection.

Last edited by R2D2 : 17th April 2013 at 22:55.
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Old 17th April 2013, 23:38   #681
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post

Two questions:
1. Does charging and drawing of current happen uniformly across the two batteries connected in parallel?
2. If the charge level and voltage of the two are slightly different, what will the inverter read: average / higher / lower?
1 Drawing of current will be the same except when its approaching the depleted state .

However when charging if the age of the batteries are different or if one battery is of lower capacity then the battery with the lower capacity will start to show a higher voltage but the charger will continue to supply the same current since the other good battery is drawing current but once the bad battery starts to go above the charger change over detection voltages such as from boost mode to normal charge mode to float mode.
The charger will automatically then sense the increased voltage and will change to the next charging stage .By the time it reaches the float mode both batteries will have similar charge unless one battery is significantly less or in other words a nearly kaput battery.

2 It will read the highest but the moment you disconnect or stop the charging both batteries will balance themself meaning both will show equal voltage since they are connected in parallel this is not the case when they are connected in series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
The SUA2200I that I use (4 17AH SMF batteries in series for a nominal voltage of 48VDC) has an efficiency rating of 90% which is excellent. I plan to buy the same model as mentioned below. This has been superseded by a newer model (SMT 2200) which uses an LCD display instead of LEDs and has better efficiency. It has not been introduced in most countries and is available in USA and EU.
The SUA2200I model uses only internal batteries and its inbuilt charger is of lower capacity.You can still connect a higher capacity external batteries but it will take a longer time to charge them.I doubt we will see those lcd based ones for another 3 years in india.I have been asking APC india about the launch of these from the past 2 years and it doesn't look like we will seeing them soon in india.

Last edited by aim120 : 17th April 2013 at 23:45.
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Old 19th April 2013, 13:21   #682
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Hi Folks, can anyone tell me which Inverter might be the best value for money for a small home requirement of 3 CFL (15w) + 3 ceiling fan + 1 computer. This is at max load so not necessarily all would be on at the same time. Also, if any idea about the cost can be had that would be great as well.
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Old 19th April 2013, 17:34   #683
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Smile Re: Inverter Batteries

Hi all,

I am in Chennai and am examining options for setting up inverter and battery at home. After reading a few posts here I thought of Su-kam, APC and Numeric.

Today I enquired about Numeric and got the following quote:

1KVA Numeric Inverter (1000HR) with 2 year warranty + 100Ah tubular battery (Options: Exide Stanred/ Eagan/ Southern Tubular High Power) with 3 year warranty - Net Rs. 16,200 for operating two fans, i tube light and a TV for 3.5 hours

1KVA Numeric Inverter (1000HR) with 2 year warranty + 150Ah tubular battery (Options: Exide Stanred/ Eagan/ Southern Tubular High Power) with 3 year warranty - Net Rs. 21,500 for operating two fans, i tube light and a TV for 6 hours.

Installation Charges, Trolley extra

So any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations from you guys?

Do you think I should go for something else like Su-kam or APC or maybe Microtek. Please share your views.

Thanks.
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Old 19th April 2013, 17:50   #684
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
The SUA2200I model uses only internal batteries and its inbuilt charger is of lower capacity.You can still connect a higher capacity external batteries but it will take a longer time to charge them.I doubt we will see those lcd based ones for another 3 years in india.I have been asking APC india about the launch of these from the past 2 years and it doesn't look like we will seeing them soon in india.
There's no possibility of external batteries because this particular UPS is in for my bedroom PC only. The 2nd model will be placed in another BR running the 2nd PC which I will configure as a media server.

I was really hoping that they would launch the SMT 2200 but either way I am pretty ok with the current model. It doesn't have the whizz bang of the successor but it does its job well and that's all that matters in the end.

Yesterday was the normal MH MSEB maintenance day and our area of Pune had a blackout for 5 hours. This happens once a month or 6 weeks. I noticed a very low high frequency 'whine' coming from the ceiling fans when the new inverter was providing power.

Looks like the rectifier circuitry coils/caps aren't doing their job well? Any advice on how to get rid of it? May need to call the service centre again. Was expecting more from Su Kam.
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Old 19th April 2013, 20:20   #685
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I have heard about this whine/hizz coming from Su Kam models and from what i hear the service center people replace a capacitor in the unit after which the problems seems to disappear.So check with the service center.
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Old 19th April 2013, 21:02   #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aim120 View Post
I have heard about this whine/hizz coming from Su Kam models and from what i hear the service center people replace a capacitor in the unit after which the problems seems to disappear.So check with the service center.
Right...thanks man. Will call them tomorrow or on Monday. Disappointing to see this on a brand new piece. But its not the 1st disappointment either.
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Old 20th April 2013, 11:44   #687
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Normally high frequency whine comes when the waveform is deformed.Funny thing is that it comes in some brands only. For example my 40 year old "Polar" has no problems, but 12 year old "Usha" has it. Has to do with the coil design?
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Old 23rd April 2013, 21:10   #688
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Hi all, I need to finalise an inverter-battery option this week, any input would be helpful:

I am in Chennai and am examining options for setting up inverter and battery at home. After reading a few posts here I thought of Su-kam, APC and Numeric.

I enquired about Numeric and got the following quote:

1KVA Numeric Inverter (1000HR) with 2 year warranty + 100Ah tubular battery (Options: Exide Stanred/ Eagan/ Southern Tubular High Power) with 3 year warranty - Net Rs. 16,200 for operating two fans, i tube light and a TV for 3.5 hours

1KVA Numeric Inverter (1000HR) with 2 year warranty + 150Ah tubular battery (Options: Exide Stanred/ Eagan/ Southern Tubular High Power) with 3 year warranty - Net Rs. 21,500 for operating two fans, i tube light and a TV for 6 hours.

Installation Charges, Trolley extra

So any thoughts, suggestions or recommendations from you guys?

Do you think I should go for something else like Su-kam or APC or maybe Microtek. Please share your views.
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Old 23rd May 2013, 16:42   #689
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Hi,

After a lot of research and opinion hunting,I went ahead and purchased APC 850VASINE from bangalore as the same wasn't readily available back in my place in Kerala
I got the Inverter for 6K from Metro Cash n Carry with the standard 2 year warranty.

I lugged the package home and got the remaining setup done from a local dealer.
I installed the Exide IT 500 (150Ah, Tower Design, 3+1 years warranty) which I got for 15K and the trolley for 1.5K. As I could not be home owing to my work, I made sure I communicated everything with the dealer before I returned to B'lore. The installation procedure(Courtesy, the battery dealer) would have been smooth had it not been for the fact that the person who came for the installation was encountering the APC for the first time and had no clue as to how to turn the thing on (The home/away button and the test button). To top it off, he called me and explained that he couldn't locate the toggle button to switch between the output for the various battery capacities(100Ah,120Ah, 150Ah,180Ah).
I returned home the next week and opened the small window behind the Inverter that housed the 'switch'. I could only notice a vacant space and when I peered in hrough the 1sq.inch window, I could only notice the motherboard.
I called up APC in the morning and registered a complaint for the same. Much to my surprise, the technician came within 3 hrs(Note,my place doesnt have a APC service centre, the nearest one is 140K's away). He duly explained that the switch is indeed present in the window, the only catch was I was expecting a 'solid, real' switch whereas the one inside was on the motherboard which had to be toggled by insterting a finger through the window and slotting it from A,B,C or D.
I am indeed pleased with the level of service that APC offers considering the fact thet hey have placed a technician in my place even though a service center is not there.
As of now, no troubles with the inverter setup and the whole thing is going strong.

NB: It seems there is a shortage of inverter batteries owing to the frequent power cuts that currently plagues Kerala. All the dealers had the tubular batteries put of stock and were quoting 17K+. Thankfully, I found a guy who had it in stock, at a price of 15K.
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Old 15th June 2013, 22:52   #690
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I have bought and started using APC 850SINE 12v inverter for last two days. Two 100Ah batteries are connected in parallel to this inverter. Few pages back I had posted lots of questions on connecting a 12v inverter to two batteries.

Before I proceed further on this inverter, a little bit on the old one. It was an APC 800 VA 24V inverter. It used to easily and simultanously power a desktop PC and plasma TV, together with some fans and tube light. Same battery pack does duty on old and new setup.

There was uninterted power for last 24 hours till this evening. So the battery should have been fully charged, the on-charging mode light was not blinking anymore. Mains power went off about 8 pm this evening. The plasma TV (285 watt) continued on for sometime and then powered off on its own. We tried restarting it again, even switching off all other loads, but to not avail. For the record there is nothing wrong with the TV, it turned on when mains power came back.

Why is this inverter, apparently higher load rating, not able to power the TV? Moreover ceiling fan speed is very low when on this inverter power. Is voltage low?

Another odd thing: even if load is constant the inverter load indicator lights (50%, 75% and 100% respectively) sometimes changes on its own. Is this normal?

Last edited by Guite : 15th June 2013 at 22:57.
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