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Old 17th September 2016, 22:14   #916
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by S_U_N View Post
Just a heads-up.
There are some discounts offered by Luminous https://www.luminouseshop.com/

Don't go by the MRP mentioned there -since outside market rate is no where close to that figure.
You might still get a good deal though - so check local market and then decide.
You meant offline shops are always cheaper?
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Old 5th November 2016, 02:13   #917
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Returning to this thread after a long time. Sorry if I asked the exact same questions before: I can't remember!

We discarded our ASC inverter and battery after they had been submerged last December (Bad decision: the inverter might have worked after washing and drying) and bought a Venus Inverter and 150 Amp-hour battery from a local electrician. It was a bad buy: he did not understand about sine-wave inverters (it isn't), we did not think about it, and now cannot stand the noise the fans make.

So, we will buy a new inverter. I would like to have the option of solar charging, but cannot afford the entire setup (nearly 1 Lakh) at this time.

My thoughts are around these products:
Luminous Solar Combo, 1.5Kva with four panels and 2 batteries: Rs.93,250

Luminous Solar NXG hybrid Inverter 1500VA, Rs.9,250

Luminous Solar 150 Ah Tall Tubular battery
, two required, @ Rs.16,000 each
Ideally, I would like, at this time, to buy just the inverter and one 150 Amp-hour battery, using the batter that we have already, which is not very old.

Questions, to which I am afraid of getting only sales-maximising answers from dealers, are...
1. Ideally, I'm sure that the two batteries in the 24-volt system should be identical... but how big a deal is it if they are not?

2. I want to use the thing as an ordinary mains-powered inverter, until I can afford to add solar panels, which would be at least several months. Edit: Answered below
The upgrade to a 1.5Kva, 24-volt system is part of the plan. Assuming possitive answers, I would spend just 25,250 initially. Or around 34K if I have to buy both batteries new.

Answers, comments, reccommendations?

EDIT: hah... this wasn't there when I looked before...
Quote:

Q Can hybrid inverters be used without solar panel?like if budget is short and m buying hybrid inverter and a battery and planning to buy solar panel afterwards.is that ok???is there any compulsion to use solar tubular batteries with hybrid inverters?what diff does it make using a solar tubular battery rather than a regular tubular battery?

A Yes, Hybrid inverter means it can charge the Battery from Grid power and Solar panel both, if you wish to connect solar panel later then it will charge the battery from Grid power. A lot of customer is doing like this. Instead of normal inverter, Customers are going for Solar inverer and when the would have additional budget, they connect solar panels. There is no compulsion of using Tubular battery, you can use any Lead acid battery as per your convenience. Solar battery has higher warranty than normal inverter battery.
(it was on the battery page)

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 5th November 2016 at 02:34.
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Old 5th November 2016, 11:26   #918
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Returning to this thread after a long time. Sorry if I asked the exact same questions before: I can't remember!
Ideally all batteries in circuit (whether in parallel or series) should have the same type and AH rating. That eases charging. Otherwise if batteries are of different capacities, then
. If in series then the charging current has to be limited to that of the lower AH, which means that the system will take longer to charge.
. If in parallel, then a load balance circuit is required

As 24V system uses batteries in series, all that you have to do is to ensure that the charging current is within the lower AH battery's safe limit.

As you have discovered, Inverters input is source independent, so install the system to use mains and then when you get Solar Panels switch to Solar. Most advanced Solar charger systems utilize the solar input when it is there and when the solar output is low or non existent, switch to mains. So, when you get a Solar Charger ensure
. That it can charge from solar panels
. That it can charge from mains
. That the switch over from solar to mains is automatic, with priority to solar.

Last edited by aah78 : 22nd November 2016 at 23:16. Reason: Reducing quoted post size for ease of reading.
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Old 5th November 2016, 12:13   #919
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Thank you Aroy.

How do you feel about the brand?

I am aware that I am only getting "level 1" of solar technology... With panels, they charge batteries; with full batteries, solar is doing nothing and goes to waste. But I don't think I can go to next level, where whatever solar power is available will be fed to house, without spending a lot more. And starting small would be harder
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Old 5th November 2016, 14:28   #920
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Thad, since you are based in Chennai, I advise you to go for Numeric. It is a Chennai based UPS company and a wholly owned subsidiary of a French UPS maker called Legrand or something. It is a company that used to be owned by Schneider Electric who are the same people who manufacture APC. I have been using a Numeric since past 6 years without any issues. Service here is very prompt though they are based out of Chennai. It so happens that they provide a lot of UPS backups for ATM's, Banks, telecom companies etc and have a pretty strong presence almost nationwide.

In last 6 years, I just had to call their service engineer only once and that was because of a failed battery. I replaced a Amaron old model battery with a Tubular battery and that was the end of that. So check them out before you go for anything else. Since they are Chennai based, your service and maintenance will be most prompt.
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Old 5th November 2016, 14:33   #921
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Questions, to which I am afraid of getting only sales-maximising answers from dealers, are...
1. Ideally, I'm sure that the two batteries in the 24-volt system should be identical... but how big a deal is it if they are not?

2. I want to use the thing as an ordinary mains-powered inverter, until I can afford to add solar panels, which would be at least several months. Edit: Answered below
My Numeric system is 24 volt for some reason. I think I had gone for 24 volt 1.4 kva system because I had good batteries when my APC inverter developed issues and I had to replace that. My batteries were good and I needed to use 2 of them. But one happened to be larger than the other. But both were 6 cell 12 volt types.

Now after an year of usage the larger battery was alright but the smaller battery always used to be overcharged trying to equalize with the larger battery. It used to overflow battery acid at most recharging cycles and that battery was a mess. It died after 1 &1/2 year and I replaced it with 2 similar types which solved the issue.
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Old 5th November 2016, 15:15   #922
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Thad, since you are based in Chennai, I advise you to go for Numeric. It is a Chennai based UPS company and a wholly owned subsidiary of a French UPS maker called Legrand or something. ...
Thank you lurker. They have changed their name to Swelect, but still have the same large head office in Mylapore.

I understand that their range covers everything from small domestic to large industrial, including the biggest solar-power farms in the country. It might well be worth talking to them before going ahead, although there is always the danger that it would not be very hard to talk me into spending lakhs that I cannot afford to spend!

I still have this dream: make the sun pay for itself by having enough solar power to run at least one AC machine .
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Old 5th November 2016, 19:12   #923
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
.....

I still have this dream: make the sun pay for itself by having enough solar power to run at least one AC machine .
That is not very hard to achieve. As far as I could make out a 1mx2m panel generates 250-300W peak. So 8 panels (as long as you have the space) would generate at least 2.5KW, enough to run one normal or two Inverter AC.

https://www.bijlibachao.com/solar/so...-in-india.html
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Old 5th November 2016, 20:10   #924
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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That is not very hard to achieve. ...
It's not hard to achieve, but it is still expensive. At least, according to what I have seen so far.

Thank you for the source: I'll be studying that
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Old 5th November 2016, 20:50   #925
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

try something like this. DC 24V airconditioner

R134a DC 48v solar power air conditioner for Tele-communication basis telecom tower reg cellphone base station aircon
http://s.aliexpress.com/YveqMN3I
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Old 6th November 2016, 15:26   #926
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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It's not hard to achieve, but it is still expensive.
Applying some brain cells to my dream, rather than dreaming it, I realise that a great deal of our electricity consumption is at night, when, for several hours, we have two AC machines running. Ha! So much for solar power for that, then! Unless I want to invest a huge amount of money and space in batteries.

So, in reality, I do think that a solar inverter, which is at least going to charge the batteries using solar, and therefore reduce down time for all the low-to-medium-power devices, is probably the best way to go for now.

But... Please confirm that I am right: those "hybrid inverters" are only using solar for battery charging, not at all contributing it to normal consumption? That does seem a shame!
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Old 6th November 2016, 16:34   #927
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Later...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But... Please confirm that I am right: those "hybrid inverters" are only using solar for battery charging, not at all contributing it to normal consumption? That does seem a shame!
Wait... It looks as if Su-Kam inverters, at least, do use solar power for other than charging. Checking out their site

Thad's New Inverter could become a bit of an epic... but I am hoping to make a decision this week, so it shouldn't go on too long

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 6th November 2016 at 16:36.
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Old 6th November 2016, 17:08   #928
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Later...



Wait... It looks as if Su-Kam inverters, at least, do use solar power for other than charging. Checking out their site

Thad's New Inverter could become a bit of an epic... but I am hoping to make a decision this week, so it shouldn't go on too long
So, Sukam brainy is good. However, when I went for my simple ups setup a couple of years ago, what I felt is that the Brainy type is good, but assuming you really want to use solar as much as possible, it would mean atleast one full charge discharge every day. What would this mean for the battery's life? It might reduce it by more than half - although I don't have data to prove it.

So how about a different idea - net metering!!! I don't know if Chennai has this concept but Bangalore has this and the way it works is you sell power to the electric company during the day and use power at night. The net metering would take care to bill you only for what you used minus what you gave back. The beauty of this design is that you don't store electricity and thus lower maintainance and higher efficiency (as. Battery storage has its own efficiency issues).

You could still sell enough electricity during the day which you make use of at night (via the electricity board). May be even run both ACs.

Possible?

Last edited by deep_bang : 6th November 2016 at 17:10.
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Old 6th November 2016, 18:50   #929
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So, Sukam brainy is good.
I'm glad you think so. any other feedback on Su-Kam as a brand? I know it is big and well known.
Quote:
but assuming you really want to use solar as much as possible, it would mean atleast one full charge discharge every day. What would this mean for the battery's life? It might reduce it by more than half - although I don't have data to prove it.
I don't think so. It looks like the brain, if it needs 15 amp, and is getting only 3 amp from the solar, takes 12 amp from the mains. It does not discharge the batteries unless it not getting enough power from anywhere, at which point it is just like a traditional inverter on battery power.

Quote:
So how about a different idea - net metering!!! .... .... ... Possible?
As I understand it so far... this is called a grid-tied system and its disadvantage is that you get no solar power to the house when the grid is down, so no protection against power cuts. For which you would have to have an inverter anyway.

And, my starting point is actually a solar-compatible (or "solar-ready") system. I can't afford the panels right now.
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Old 6th November 2016, 23:08   #930
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I'm glad you think so. any other feedback on Su-Kam as a brand? I know it is big and well known.
I have a Sukam shiny and is working fine for the last 4 years. It did need a repair when some parts for burnt due to a power surge. The good thing though was that none of my electronics at home were affected.
Quote:

I don't think so. It looks like the brain, if it needs 15 amp, and is getting only 3 amp from the solar, takes 12 amp from the mains. It does not discharge the batteries unless it not getting enough power from anywhere, at which point it is just like a traditional inverter on battery power.
I believe there are 2 modes of operation in the Brainy - although it was years ago when I looked into the details. One of the modes is such that when the battery is charged over a certain percentage, it starts to use the UPS to power the house. If insufficient, it draws power from the grid. When the level goes down below a certain percentage, it would stop using the battery unless the grid is down. This helps is actually using the solar power even when there are no power cuts. However, the downside is higher usage of battery. This may have changed now - what I am taking about was about 4 yrs ago.

Quote:
As I understand it so far... this is called a grid-tied system and its disadvantage is that you get no solar power to the house when the grid is down, so no protection against power cuts. For which you would have to have an inverter anyway.

And, my starting point is actually a solar-compatible (or "solar-ready") system. I can't afford the panels right now.
Yes. You are absolutely right. I went through a similar cycle and came to a conclusion that a UPS is just that - just a backup. Mixing with Solar is just more maintainance and possibly low usage of the solar panel too. Rather, my thought was that a solar system can be a grid tied system that is far more scalable too. You add more panels and you get more benefits (and also a good social cause). With a UPS mixed up with Solar it's quite likely that the panels are not efficiently used as your consumption will be quite low during the day (when just a bunch of lights are used - assuming no ACs are used in the day)....
Just my 2 paise...
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