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Old 19th July 2017, 15:00   #1021
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Some time ago, I came across this website selling a solution to fill into the battery cells, to rejuvenate aging batteries. Does anyone know about it, and whether it works? I am unable to find that website now.

Furthermore, is overnight charging, at the battery repair shops, a good idea to rejuvenate aging batteries?

Edit: The solution is likely to be sulphuric acid. Is it a good idea to replace the existing acid in the battery?

Last edited by halfbytecode : 19th July 2017 at 15:19.
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Old 19th July 2017, 15:34   #1022
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Edit: The solution is likely to be sulphuric acid. Is it a good idea to replace the existing acid in the battery?
It is not the solution that is the problem, it is that the plates get coated.

Anyway, I would not even think of handling that much acid, especially when you have to drain it from something so heavy and hard to handle. Don't be fooled by the word "dilute." It just means that it takes longer to burn!

Well, I am, or was, used to using concentrated and dilute sulphuric acid: I wouldn't think of doing it!
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Old 19th July 2017, 16:28   #1023
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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It's time to change my inverter battery(150Ah).
Has anybody installed Amaron inverter batteries? I have had only fantastic experiences with Amaron car batteries. This would be the first time that I would be trying Amaron battery on a inverter. Appreciate your feedback
Amaron AAM-CR-I1500D04R is what I am looking at. With exchange batterybhai.com is listing it at Rs.8799 wherein carbatteryexpert.com (anybody availed services from these guys?) around Rs.250 less. That's inclusive of old battery exchange and free installation.
Would not recommend this particular battery as this looks like a Flat plate design battery. For inverter tubular battery is recommended.

I would suggest that you go with tall tubular battery. Also check MyPowerKart for a much better price.

Do let me know which brand and model you finally decided and why.
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Old 19th July 2017, 22:13   #1024
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by BlueEyes View Post
It's time to change my inverter battery(150Ah).
Based on my experience that a 150Ah Exide InvaTubular is going strong in my household for the past 5+ years, I would suggest you go for the same. It will be the most expensive battery among all brands as well as within the Exide range but will be well worth the price. Just keep an eye out for level and top up the battery every month or so. One of the tips from the electrician who installed the inverter was that, only a cup will be needed to top up the battery every month, but a bucket every six months!

Even though the e-commerce sites are a good place to compare prices, do visit brick and mortar stores in your area as well (Check out official dealers from websites). You'll be pleasantly surprised!

Last edited by sidhu_hs : 19th July 2017 at 22:17.
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Old 19th July 2017, 22:32   #1025
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I too have Evide Inva tubular battery , model IT500 which was bought 4 years back. It's still going strong and no frequent top up needed , it was one month back I did the first top-up.It do have floatter to indicate level of fluid which is very convenient.
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Old 20th July 2017, 09:34   #1026
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by BlueEyes View Post
It's time to change my inverter battery(150Ah). Has anybody installed Amaron inverter batteries?
Go in for the Exide Invatubular but not the Invamaster or Invaplus.

Have a set of two 200 AH Invatubular batteries going strong after more than 4 years of service. This duo was preceded by an Invatubular 180AH that was served without problems for 4 years but was replaced by the aforementioned twin 200AH units only because we needed a higher capacity inverter.

According to a dealer the Invatubular models can last anywhere between 5-8 years depending on usage and maintenance. All you need to ensure is the inverter charging voltage is at recommended levels and the battery is regularly topped off, normally every 2-3 months, with distilled water. Always keep an eye on the floats.

While Exide has a mixed rep when it comes to car batteries when it comes to inverter tubular batteries Exide is king. It reflects in the price one pays for their products.

PS - During a gruellingly hot summer this year when load shedding due to repair work on an accidentally damaged underground cable became the order of the day, my inverter batteries' electrolyte levels dropped to the Min level for the 1st time since purchase. It took about 2.5 litres of DW to bring the level back up to the Max mark i.e. up to the bottom of the vent tubes. A normal quarterly top off consumes about 1-1.25 litres for both batteries.

Last edited by R2D2 : 20th July 2017 at 09:42.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 01:01   #1027
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
It is not the solution that is the problem, it is that the plates get coated.

Anyway, I would not even think of handling that much acid, especially when you have to drain it from something so heavy and hard to handle. Don't be fooled by the word "dilute." It just means that it takes longer to burn!

Well, I am, or was, used to using concentrated and dilute sulphuric acid: I wouldn't think of doing it!
I should have elaborated. I was talking about adding the solution of Epsom salt (magnesium sulphate) and distilled water, to the battery cells. I did read magnesium may help somewhat de-coat the plates.

I was thinking about engineering a way to suck out the existing acid-water solution from the battery cells. That should not be a problem. It seems I may not have to move the battery at all.

I have read this being done quite a lot, of course with proper safety precautions. Should this be done, while considering all that I have mentioned here?

How about the overnight charging by the battery repairer?
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Old 22nd July 2017, 03:08   #1028
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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I have read this being done quite a lot, of course with proper safety precautions. Should this be done, while considering all that I have mentioned here?
I say, no. Although I do tend to be a bit safety-concious (done some stupid things with electricity though). I also know that my co-ordination is not good enough to be careful enough. But hey, if I tried, I'd insist on full eye protection, like goggles, and even a full-face thingy. Did I when I was making jewellery? Nope. But I was dealing with 1/4 mug of the stuff, kept my eyes away, and lived/dealt with the small holes in my clothes and burns on my skin. Soap and water well before they became anything even resembling a burn.

But I too have heard, maybe a long time ago, about ways of un-coating the plates. I wonder if there are people that do this work?
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Old 22nd July 2017, 06:38   #1029
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
But I too have heard, maybe a long time ago, about ways of un-coating the plates. I wonder if there are people that do this work?
The corrosion will have made the plates thinner after the lead has been gradually converted to lead sulphate.

So even if you scrape this away by some means - eg: using EDTA (ethalene diamine tetra acetic acid) additives to cause chelation of the lead sulphate, in a battery whose plates are corroded with sulphation, the plates have worn thin and the battery is of very little use.

The way to go is to keep the battery regularly charged, not discharge it fully, and keep it regularly topped up with distilled water. Just the charging will take care of the issue, in most cases. Small amounts of lead sulphate will turn back to lead (-ve plate), lead dioxide (+ve plate) and sulphuric acid, with the charging. It is only prolonged discharge that will lead to the deposit onto the plates.

To increase the efficiency - scrub the terminals with baking soda to remove built up corrosion (don't add it into the battery) and coat them with vaseline, for the older fashioned batteries.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 07:58   #1030
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

A probable repeat question for the wise here:
I have used a 3 KVA Ador online UPS for running about 70% of the circuits in the home - other than fridge, AC and similar loads - to provide the seamless transition to the generator taking over and to provide on a 24/7 basis, all the sensitive and expensive entertainment electronics with clean constant voltage and frequency power, of the pure sine wave kind. The UPS has eight 12 volt 7 amp/hour Quanta batteries placed inside the compact UPS box. The batteries are used often, but almost never for more than 5 minutes, by which time the building DG set kicks in.

This has worked with no faults since June 2014.

Now, the batteries are dead or dying and I have to replace these. The place where the inverter is kept has enough space to keep external batteries as well, if these are either cheaper or will give longer service life. I can do the maintenance, but would prefer not to. Upfront costs are less of an issue if long and reliable service life can be obtained, and I am looking at 5 years as an ambition.

The obvious question: What battery to use given all the above?

Appreciate any guidance.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 10:35   #1031
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by halfbytecode View Post
Some time ago, I came across this website selling a solution to fill into the battery cells, to rejuvenate aging batteries. Does anyone know about it, and whether it works? I am unable to find that website now.

Furthermore, is overnight charging, at the battery repair shops, a good idea to rejuvenate aging batteries?

Edit: The solution is likely to be sulphuric acid. Is it a good idea to replace the existing acid in the battery?
I would not touch the acid if I were you. Not only is the chemical hazardous but the quantity and Sp Gr is decided at the factory and all one needs to do is top off the DW. If you remove the acid you'd be at a loss to know the acid:water ratio (normally 30:70 or 35:65, but that's a rule of the thumb) added at the factory.

What the solution probably does is chemically desulphates the battery to extend its life, a method that I would stay far away from. If you need to desulphate there are purpose built devices that do the job (I have a couple of them) but the normal process of discharging and charging should dissolve any sulphate crystals and add them back to the electrolyte.

However, if poor performance is due to plate corrosion or shorts then it sounds the death knell and nothing further can be done.

Batteries are also recommended to be "reconditioned or equalised" at least once a year..a process that involves driving a voltage of 15.8 to 16 VDC for a few hours whilst keeping an eye on the water level. The normal gassing that occurs mixes stratified electrolyte and water inside plus breaks down sulphate crystals. This is especially so for large stationary batteries like those used with inverters. The normal motion of a car being driven ensures battery electrolyte does not get stratified.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Now, the batteries are dead or dying and I have to replace these. The place where the inverter is kept has enough space to keep external batteries as well, if these are either cheaper or will give longer service life. I can do the maintenance, but would prefer not to. Upfront costs are less of an issue if long and reliable service life can be obtained, and I am looking at 5 years as an ambition.
The obvious question: What battery to use given all the above? Appreciate any guidance.
I'd switch over to larger external batteries but then that involves buying 8 batteries (need to maintain that input voltage) that will cost you quite a bit. It ranges from about approx. 11K to 21K each depending on brand and capacity. If you are ok with the cost consider Exide's Gel batteries OR better still one of the flooded tubular models. Just make sure the inverter's charging voltage is at recommended levels. Gell cell and tubular require slightly higher charge voltages than normal flat plate batteries.

Last edited by R2D2 : 22nd July 2017 at 10:43. Reason: added reply
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Old 22nd July 2017, 11:20   #1032
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post


I'd switch over to larger external batteries but then that involves buying 8 batteries (need to maintain that input voltage) that will cost you quite a bit. It ranges from about approx. 11K to 21K each depending on brand and capacity. If you are ok with the cost consider Exide's Gel batteries OR better still one of the flooded tubular models. Just make sure the inverter's charging voltage is at recommended levels. Gell cell and tubular require slightly higher charge voltages than normal flat plate batteries.
At a total of more than 80k, that seems too high for the application, for little benefit.
I suspect replacing as is will cost me about 8k. And if that does 3 year service again, that's good enough for the price.
The inverter is transformer less, which is the reason for the 96 volts, I guess.
How does one keep the inverter charging voltage at recommended levels?
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Old 22nd July 2017, 12:47   #1033
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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At a total of more than 80k, that seems too high for the application, for little benefit.
Yes, you could also consider using 17 AH VRLA batteries from Exide or Amaron. They are about 2K/piece. It should theoretically offer you about 2x more run time than the current 7AH batteries.

Quote:
The inverter is transformer less, which is the reason for the 96 volts, I guess. How does one keep the inverter charging voltage at recommended levels?
Some but not all inverters have the capability to adjust DC charging voltage. You'd have to check with your inverter manufacturer. For e.g. some Su-kam and Microtek pure sine wave models have a switch on the back panel to adjust for the type of battery installed i.e. VRLA/Tubular or flat plate which in turn adjusts the voltage and possibly charging amps too.

Last edited by R2D2 : 22nd July 2017 at 12:48.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 12:55   #1034
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
A probable repeat question for the wise here:
I have used a 3 KVA Ador online UPS for running about 70% of the circuits in the home - other than fridge, AC and similar loads - to provide the seamless transition to the generator taking over and to provide on a 24/7 basis, all the sensitive and expensive entertainment electronics with clean constant voltage and frequency power, of the pure sine wave kind. The UPS has eight 12 volt 7 amp/hour Quanta batteries placed inside the compact UPS box. The batteries are used often, but almost never for more than 5 minutes, by which time the building DG set kicks in.

This has worked with no faults since June 2014.

Now, the batteries are dead or dying and I have to replace these. The place where the inverter is kept has enough space to keep external batteries as well, if these are either cheaper or will give longer service life. I can do the maintenance, but would prefer not to. Upfront costs are less of an issue if long and reliable service life can be obtained, and I am looking at 5 years as an ambition.

The obvious question: What battery to use given all the above?

Appreciate any guidance.
My APC UPS uses 2 x 17AH sealed lead acid batteries. I change them every 5 years or so. Last I changed them in August last year, the cost after buy back of old batteries is
Rs. 2,000/ each. So in your case it will cost 2x8=16K, well below any alternative.

In case you want to replace with 7AH, there are options as low as Rs1,000 at Amazon
http://www.amazon.in/s/ref=sr_st_rel...levanceblender

NOTE
Our local battery dealer gives a much better deal, so you can try and find a local Exide dealer in your area.

Last edited by Aroy : 22nd July 2017 at 12:57.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 13:33   #1035
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Thank you for the advice.

Since I am able to replace all 8 batteries for a total cost of approx Rs 7000, and I received three years life from the existing set that has just now failed, continuing with the existing in box solution is the most economical solution for me given that I don't need any increase in time when the back up is available - there is no difference in the time it takes for the building DG set to kick in whenever the grid power goes down and the 5 minutes I get even with full load is plenty for these times. And in practice, full load is very rare, so any additional run time would not be used.

In three years, I did not touch the box, so that is good enough reason to not change either.
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