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Old 28th May 2010, 00:57   #121
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Sidkun; the batteries in a well ventilated room would not be a problem. If you are too much concerned, you can move it out to your garage.

PS: I would suggest you to go for Exide EL tubular series of batteries. These Inverter series batteries are $I-IiT.
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Old 4th June 2010, 17:56   #122
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Friends, need your advise for buying an Inverter in Chennai.
I have seen the Usha Inverter with 800VA and thinking of buying it. I went through the thread only to find that I didn't note the battery that is sold along with this inverter. And I remember that this one is not of type Sine wave. Is that a problem?
The price quoted was about 12K in Ratna Fan house, T.nagar. Is there any other dealer in Chennai who can do a neat install?
And I'm planning to have the interver battery in a closed loft in one of our bedrooms, is that OK? Kindly help.
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Old 4th June 2010, 18:08   #123
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Chipz, i have "okaya" batt at home, have kept the inverter in the hall and its about15ft away from the window. is it fine??

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Sidkun; the batteries in a well ventilated room would not be a problem. If you are too much concerned, you can move it out to your garage.

PS: I would suggest you to go for Exide EL tubular series of batteries. These Inverter series batteries are $I-IiT.
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Old 4th June 2010, 18:24   #124
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It is not the distance from the window. Do you keep the windows open all the time, I dont think so. It wont be a prob if your room has ample air circulation via air ducts. What is the dimension of your room.
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Old 4th June 2010, 20:25   #125
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Can I use 36AH car battery with the 800VA home ups (like su-kam/microtek ..)

I happened to hear that Charging currents of these ups will be very high for <100AH batteries. Is it true? Anybody on this forum using such a setup? What are the cons

Thanks
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Old 4th June 2010, 22:51   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twiny View Post
Can I use 36AH car battery with the 800VA home ups (like su-kam/microtek ..)

I happened to hear that Charging currents of these ups will be very high for <100AH batteries. Is it true? Anybody on this forum using such a setup? What are the cons

Thanks
Twiny; A 800 va ups has a charging current of about 8 to 10 amps since it charges a 150 ah battery.

36 ah battery needs 3 to 4 amps for charging.

So, when connecting a 36 ah in a 800 va ups....
1. The battery is receiving about double the current needed, so it will reach full charge voltage in half the time than normally needed.
2. The gravity of the acid will not reach its maximum since it has less charging time, so you will not get good backup.
3. Repeated high current charging cycle can damage the cell of the battery and it in turn can damage the ups.
4. 36 ah battery can normally sustain only about 300 watts load. If you connect a 800 W load, the system will start crying low battery pretty fast.

I dont suppose you are using a new car battery or ups for this purpose.

if you have got the system and battery, you can contact the manufacturer to see if they can decrease the charging current. Then it wont be a problem, but still you will not be able to load 800 W for long.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by Chipz : 4th June 2010 at 22:52.
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Old 5th June 2010, 08:38   #127
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Thanks Chipz.. thought of using one user Car battery, but don't have any 800va ups.

So likewise I should not connect it to 500w normal PC ups, which is intended for charging 7ah battery, correct?
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Old 5th June 2010, 11:46   #128
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yup the windows are kept open always. th dimension is about 15x10ft




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It is not the distance from the window. Do you keep the windows open all the time, I dont think so. It wont be a prob if your room has ample air circulation via air ducts. What is the dimension of your room.
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Old 5th June 2010, 14:49   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twiny View Post
So likewise I should not connect it to 500w normal PC ups, which is intended for charging 7ah battery, correct?
Dont even think about it. it just has 1 amp charging current. The ups will be fried at once.

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yup the windows are kept open always. th dimension is about 15x10ft
Then dont worry and enjoy the powercut.
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Old 21st June 2010, 03:53   #130
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Hi, I am sorry if this is a bit long-winded and might win the award for longest post, but just wanna get a few things cleared out once and for all and also throw in my 90 paise worth of input. From my research and such this is just my opinion based on some very undeniable facts:

As far as inverters are concerned Pure Sine Wave seems to be the preferred one. 800VA to 850VA seems to be the sweet spot, where in your not running everything on your house at a time. Maybe a fan or two, a light (preferably low watt CFL), and a computer/TV. Battery amp hours giving the factor of backup time. (The longer backup you need and more components, the more batteries or say higher amp hour rated battery/batteries that are going to be needed) Inverters makes are many and okay the prices have been jacked up being the summer season and all. Not an uncommon practice in our country, given the concept of when demand is high, price naturally way too high! ; ) Yep I Love India Too and its power cuts X ( ! ; )

There seems to be no reviews or news in the forums about Microtek, Whirlpool, or Videocon. Some models I came across was one in Microtek SW 875VA E2 with power saving features (hum free), Whirlpool seems to have models and stuff with so called power saving features that adjust according to the components used, etc. Su-Kam [Falcon (800 VA)] seems to be the only one mentioning No need for both an UPS and an inverter as some paranoia patients like me might feel it is the safest bet to keep both a UPS and Inverter to prevent system from restarting. (I am in Quality Control/Editing in Medical Transcription and I quite frankly wouldn't want to be sitting and editing an hour long worth of audio file in documents from scratch due to some power mishap like this and something not being saved : ( )

Which are the appropriate Makes/Models that have a functionality like this being Pure Sine Wave and have added useful features in the 800VA to 1000VA range with current prices?

When it comes to batteries, here's the picture. If you've done proper research and ample amount of reading through both positive and negative blogs and discussed with a few helpful battery company guys, here's what I come to understand. In Tamil they say "kaasukaetha dosai" meaning according to the cash you put in the product, the performance you get, like how we most of the time want a Ferrari for the price of an 800, which though we know is unreasonable in all realms, to our mighty brains always felt right or appropriate! Okay back to the topic. The batteries that are available are plenty depending on your capability of maintaining them and according to the price the features, but then you have to get to the basics and use them according to your scenario. If the batteries are going to be placed outside (given you have like a rottweiler and an alsatian guarding them, hopefully from afar, I'm not insensitive enough to let them alone inhale the fumes : P) you can go for the normal lead acid batteries if very very budget constrained. But then here's the deal be prepared to keep on replacing them every now and then and be ready to keep doing vigilant checks on the water level etc., yeah and even risk the faulty level indicators.
Next up are the Batteries created especially for Inverters. Each company claims to have a few models. Tubular supposedly more better and well naturally costlier. Maintenance claimed to be lesser, but none the less need to be monitored once in a while. These are fine as long as you are keeping them outside and well ventilated. You just can't claim safety to something you can't see, please don't come up with I was born with kryptonite and have laser vision to see the fumes from these things not coming and claim stuff as safe. You'll only find yourself going to the doctor in a few months(in case you're asthmatic like me) or in a year saying doc I can't seem to feel my lungs... Batteries are very harmful when the charge cycle changes, or power shuts down, and especially when refilling, etc. and there's reaction going on inside them that you're not going to be sitting and monitoring 24x7 unless you're that jobless. So don't talk crap and try to think you're real smart. You're just proving yourself more dumber when saying stuff like that. Don't believe me go to a battery charging shop and try being where the batteries are being charged for a while. Err that's not you getting a feeling of being high, that's you getting the feeling you're about to die!

There's the more costlier and more efficient sealed batteries that can be used indoors, one is semi-maintenance wherein called valvular release batteries these let off gas once in a while and need very less maintenance, but I don't want that thing sitting next to me in my room and doing that just when I'm about to light up a fag, and then look like one due to being blown up! The more costlier ones are fully sealed like either gel or AGM (absorbent glass mat) I happened to see what the hell it was. It was just like fiberglass sheets that soak up the acid and stick to the plate preventing any discharge and being in constant contact and hence claimed to be one of the most efficient. No leakage fears, since sealed and supposed to be, and well according to calculation, specifics and physics, the safest/best bet because you can have this somewhere close to you computer itself, keeping the wiring minimal and the distance of wiring causing more draw/load on your battery from not happening. Obviously more suited for people who are going to need their home office setup running even during power cuts and who don't have any place to keep the batteries outside. Main factor most people seem to forget is that the further away the setup and more the wiring and equipment connected, the more the draw is going to be so I hope there wont be anyone saying I have less backup with a single 100 Ah battery with my whole house lit up. Do the math and try to use as minimum appliances as possible when running on inverter. And another thing is with batteries, like vehicle batteries, if not maintained can lead to dire consequences. Don't be saying stuff proudly like I don't check the level at all and I only check it once in a while and don't do top-ups most of the time like your doing something right, that makes people who are making the same mistake think they are right and then wonder why things just don't seem right. According to the battery and its maintenance suggestions, please follow the same, unless you have deep cycle AGM batteries fully charged and performing in optimum, which am doubtful given their high price and the possibility of brain saying NO NO seeing something priced high when not thinking of the advantages. Its like saying my brain was dead when I bought that 20k odd gaming card, but to pay for something that will actually make it run, doesnt seem fair. Wake up to reality people, without power what value does that 20k card have, 0 (That's Gero with a Z). These batteries are costliest, but none the less are very safe considering they can be placed indoors without too much worry and are supposed to be very highly efficient. Cold start, etc. ratings damn high. You can read about them in detail in many sites and learn of their superiority over other types and their advantages.

Here's another thing I would have tried, but unfortunately my APC UPS650VA had totally died. There are sites and videos that have battery hacks done on a UPS that the battery alone has just conked to run a Car battery, but as someone mentioned earlier I was worried about the capability of the unit's PCB to charge the higher capacity batteries efficiently. Wonder how these guys managed to get it going, though I would not highly suggest trying something like that without knowing basic electronics or without seeing the actual longevity of those setups, or say till we hear any news about these guys' unfortunate accidents in the long run. Definitely proper electronic knowledge would be useful in trying something like that or if anyone has a UPS who's battery alone is dead send the unit over and I could get a car battery and try it out for you'll just to be sure

Another thing is the myth about the UPS-inverter connection crap causing system restarts that keeps me seriously worried because right now I don't know if am to get an Inverter alone or get a UPS also. Connection from the UPS should actually be done to the sockets that the Inverter's supply is available is what is my understanding, since if you put it to a line that doesn't receive supply, then the computer is going to last as long as only the UPS will and won't serve the purpose whereas the same backup time that is received from the inverter for the other components is what is expected off the computer in my case. A proper method of connection mentioned would be appropriate.
Eg. Inverter to Mains supplied by Inverter to UPS to PC (or)
UPS to Inverter Socket (on the inverter unit) that does not give power supply? I wonder if that's the case coz why would someone give connection to a socket that's not going to supply power! (or)
PC Direct to the Mains being supplied by Inverter (hopefully where-in the inverter unit itself acts like a UPS and doesnt cause restart due to long switchover time)

Plus am in a slight budget constraint now thanks to overworking my butt off that I have to take time off for medical rest and to get myself a so called ergonomic chair to prevent circulation problems and carpal tunnel that costs only 15k odd so that I can sit 24x7 on the comp if needed(a bit out of topic and yeah I know my life sucks). The inverter quotations I got are in the range of 13k and I am sure if I get a deep cycle AGM battery of high amp hour rating if available in Chennai that's gonna be way more than that, meaning nearly two months of salary to get an Inverter, a chair and a UPS, or if there's an inverter that removes the need of a UPS that would be great in cutting out a few thousands of expense as long as my PC is safe. Do give your inputs if you know places in Chennai that have the availability of these inverters/batteries with prices, and with all honesty I wouldn't be surprised if someone told me the AGM battery alone costs something around 15k plus! It also seems that Customer Service seems to be a major problem, as all the interest these inverter companies show you in the beginning dies once you've purchased the product, you just can't help wondering if this is a case of Jekyl and Hyde whereas in a situation where I am left stranded will undoubtedly result in tanning of someone's hide. A company with good customer service if could be suggested would be much appreciated too. Sorry once again for my long post and do hope I haven't offended anyone and the info helps.
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Old 21st June 2010, 17:34   #131
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michschu1; I dont think anyone will be reading this whole post. Anyway I did SOME since i was sitting idle . In my experience, there is no guarantee that your system will not restart with any ups (it mostly depends on the ups specifications and your smps).

I have not heard asthmatics having problems with battery fumes, but dont think they will be sitting near it though.

Buying an inverter or ups solely depends on your budget. But since you are in a slight budget constraint, you can go only with the inverter without the ups. Ya using the ups in inverter line can restart the system sometimes, but it all depends on the compatibility. PM me if you need information regarding connecting computer to normal inverter.
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Old 23rd June 2010, 04:59   #132
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Hey glad you replied and your patience is highly appreciated and thank god u had the time! The reason I did make it lengthy is I didn't want to make a long line of sms type multiple posts, whereas I wanted to be very clear on what the criteria is and what my doubt is, because every forum u see there will never be a clear explanation of the method of wiring(easily understandable schematics) or whether there is a way of using diodes or capacitors to keep the system fool-proof, whether u definitely need a UPS AND INVERTER, not OR, you only hear some saying it works, some saying it doesn't without the actual setup for the working or nonworking modules or how they rectified the issue. That seriously pi$$es one off.
I am set back by 16k for a chair(yeah I am crying right now) and have like 13k max 14k in hand(to empty pocket). Now people have scared me saying the power surges and stuff can kill the computer via direct inverter and Im not talking cheap components. 500 W PSU, XFX GTX260 Black Edition, Two Hard Drives(500GB+160GB) 4GB Ram, DVD drivesx2 etc. so risks are a strict no, no. I really sacrifice a lot for getting the best(not being TATA's or Ambani's kid), so always do plenty of research and don't hesitate to spend as long as the product was worth the pain and sacrifice.(Not penny wise pound foolish to be exact) So please do suggest me a proper inverter if there is that can work as a UPS and if I have no other go then mention the need to buy both inverter and UPS. I would probably get an APC UPS this month maybe 650VA again so that it wont trip with an 875VA inverter and get the inverter next month with next salary(or will have to get higher 800VA UPS now due to components and then 1kV inverter next month). Still searching info regarding availability of AGM deep cycle batteries in Chennai. I cant believe two months salary is gonna go just on this but as I said I hope its worth the pain. Sorry to be But how do I PM you? And next time I promise shorter posts
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Old 23rd June 2010, 13:58   #133
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michschu1: It is really a headache when you need ups for critical data, long backup, cost constraint.

You have to choose a product depending on the constant line voltage, voltage fluctuation, lowest line voltage, system wattage, etc.

An Inverter will not be having good line voltage regulation like ups, but it is cheaper. So an inverter is not recommended in areas with constant line fluctuation.

I recommend you check the fluctuation in your line voltage, lowest line voltage, and voltage drop at night time, etc, and then decide. Capacitor and diodes are a good way to get rid of constant fluctuations (I am using it), but you have to choose the values carefully.
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Old 24th June 2010, 00:43   #134
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Seriously so, as you mentioned, the power does not stay stable sometimes hitting as low as 190, on very rare days(rather nights) it will come up to 220 223 volts, otherwise constantly low, no wonder I changed almost all the components on my computer. Two SMPS and two UPS so far. I was really racking my brains today fighting between Inverter or UPS, and then since everywhere it was suggested to go for a UPS AND Inverter as there is no guarantee that Inverter will not skip or restart with any fluctuation, I was going on contemplating between getting an APC 650VA UPS for now and probably next month going in for a 875VA inverter but I kept remembering how my system didn't even hold for a matter of minutes with its graphics card and PSU, so decided to go for an APC 1000VA UPS, Rs. 5850/- but thing is model varies with country I was more inclined towards an APC Smart UPS 1000VA XL but received an APC 1000VA RS : ( It has an additional battery socket for APC battery, but I took this mainly so that when it conks, can directly go in for a Car Battery or some other AGM battery and start my experiment, with probably some helpful tips from someone with resistor or regulator knowledge to make the UPS run from that battery and charge and cut off appropriately with plenty of backup. Because now if I go in for an inverter will have to pay dearly to get a 1.5kV inverter to keep the UPS from tripping and am sure that setup would mean two batteries as opposed to one, and more charging = more power consumption. So better option would be go for a good AGM battery and connect it to the UPS and hope someone succeeds with a working setup to attain that or could post the necessary modifications needed to make that a successful option for a long running UPS. Thanks
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Old 24th June 2010, 05:22   #135
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Now am wondering why I didn't come across this earlier after buying an APC 1000VA UPS, but do APC, Sukam, Luminous, and Microtek have 800/1000 VA inverters that act as both UPS cum inverter and can be used to run computer and appliances simultaneously without causing computer to restart. Anyone with prior experience on these inverters who haven't had any system restarts with either power going or returning or with spikes/fluctuations in voltage etc. with direct connection of PC and components to the Inverter. Please do reply anyone with your experiences and setup with backup time. I will most probably be using only a CFL a fan and my computer when there is a power outage to enable longer backup time as that is my main criteria. Also can the UPS still be used with these inverters without any issue?
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