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Old 24th April 2011, 03:55   #1681
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

1. ok re-read it. seems you saying go whirlpool. Is it true that onida uses hitachi compressor ? So is it comparable to whirlpool ?

2. i''ve made up my mind on 3 x 1.5 ton Daikin for bedrooms.

3. i went to vijay sales today to check out whirlpool. They have some offers like..

Free Installation + Free Stabalizer on lloyd acs. They have 2 lloyd AC's with 5 star rating for Rs. 27000.

4. Any feedback on llyod acs ? Are they any good ? Price looks tempting with the 5 stars and free installation + free stabalizer. Are they comparable to the whirlpool ?
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Old 24th April 2011, 13:54   #1682
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

@rana_kirti

An airconditioner is so much more than just the compressor. There are several other major and minor components that work in tandem with the comp. to give you the desired results.

Whirlpool is almost as good if not better than the top of the line machines in the market as far as the quality of the internal components is concerned. This does not mean that their cabinets are any worse but the quality of molded plastics here and abroad is different and this does show up in the fit and finish of the indoor cabinets. That said the big W is still miles ahead of the others in the market including the Koreans. Onida is a very different animal and best left alone. Lloyds used to be a big ticket name some decades ago, when these machines were being made under the name Fedders Lloyd. Fedders being the technology provider and lloyds being the domestic partner. At this time both of them are trying their hand at going it alone. I would say let them find their place under the Sun before you take your wallet out.

I have been thinking that if you are buying 3 machines from Daikin you could get additional two from their models using the R22 gas. Members have been reporting some very attractive prices on these machines. Another great machine to consider would be the old reliable ASG18A from General, with 19380 btu/hr of rated cooling 2 of these would be a great addition to any living room. This machine and the the two models above it feature a unique air distribution feature which has vents traversing left to right in addition to the usual up and down. Does not sound like much but in large rooms this simple feature can make the difference between a uniformly cooled room or one with hot and cold spots ( last season Daikin too introduced this feature in some of their non inverter models). Apart from the air swing and the oversized compressors and condensers to match, this series has no other fancy features to speak of thus making it ultra reliable and economical to buy.
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Old 24th April 2011, 17:00   #1683
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
It is better to go with a slightly larger machine than one sitting on the border. The compressor will achieve the set temperature quicker and will see lesser on off cycles and that loads the system lesser resulting in longer life. However too much of an oversize could also result in slightly higher bills. Go to Daiken India .com or .co.in they do have this selection tool, Google for the exact home page url.
i had a query regarding your above statement.

i read on another forum where a gentleman said.

( Post no. 6 )

1 tonne split airconditioner - need suggestions

"The trick in air conditioning fundamental is that you MUST select the A/C capacity 'slightly' less than what is required. It is a complex set of calculations. The idea is that the compressor (most likely rotary type in 1 and 1.5 TR) should operate continuously and NOT on-off. Some high end machines are equipped with DC inverter drive which controls the speed of the compressor depending on the room load. That caters to close to 50% of the power savings even if a higher capacity machine is selected for a specific room. So, in case, you do not want to pay double for this feature, you must select a slightly lower capacity A/C for a given room. The on-off operation consumes hell lot of power to operate. This is something the retailers do not know as manufacturers find it very difficult to make them understand technically.

This is a complex thing to explain here. My rooms are 15' x 11' x 10' and both are equipped with 1 TR split machines without inverter drives. The retailer was hell bent to supply at least 1.5 TR machines which would have been a mess. The compressors run continuously during afternoons in peak summers and on-off (say, after every 60 minutes) during nights.

also..... ( post no. 91 )

1 tonne split airconditioner - need suggestions - Page 10

"If and only if the AC runs on-off frequently, the life of the compressor, contactors, condensor comes down. If one sizes the AC slightly (only slightly) less than the load existing, then the AC runs continuously ie. heat in = cool in. This balance makes the AC run continuous.

I had already taken up this subject in sufficient detail in another thread for 1.5 TR AC. All rotary compressors are designed to operate for very long stretches and do not require 'rest'. There is something on the starting current and running current explained in the other thread.

Giving a layman's example here, my neighbour used to get a monthly electricity bill of Rs.4750/month for a family of 4, same as mine. He operated a 1.5 TR machine for @ 8 hours daily for a room of 14' x 10' on the GF, while I do with a 1 TR machine for a 15' x 11' GF room. I get bills ranging from Rs.1800 to Rs.2200/month. He was agast with his bills and had shared with me the usage patterns, which were quite similar. Two months ago he replaced the 1.5 TR window with a 1 TR split and lo ........... he got a Rs.2400 bill last month. This is proof enough......




Reading yours and the other gentleman's comments has left me confused. Both the theories seem to contradict each other. Could you comment on above.

Thanks

Last edited by rana_kirti : 24th April 2011 at 17:06.
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Old 24th April 2011, 18:09   #1684
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Hi guys, I am about to go and buy one AC now. have Seen the below models:

LG - 1 ton - 2 star - Rs. 1600
Voltas - 1 ton - 3 star - Rs. 16600
Samsung - 1 star - 2 star - Rs. 15500

Let me know with which one to go for. Waiting for your reply.
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Old 24th April 2011, 19:20   #1685
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post
"The trick in air conditioning fundamental is that you MUST select the A/C capacity 'slightly' less than what is required. It is a complex set of calculations. The idea is that the compressor (most likely rotary type in 1 and 1.5 TR) should operate continuously and NOT on-off. Some high end machines are equipped with DC inverter drive which controls the speed of the compressor depending on the room load. That caters to close to 50% of the power savings even if a higher capacity machine is selected for a specific room. So, in case, you do not want to pay double for this feature, you must select a slightly lower capacity A/C for a given room. The on-off operation consumes hell lot of power to operate. This is something the retailers do not know as manufacturers find it very difficult to make them understand technically.

This is a complex thing to explain here. My rooms are 15' x 11' x 10' and both are equipped with 1 TR split machines without inverter drives. The retailer was hell bent to supply at least 1.5 TR machines which would have been a mess. The compressors run continuously during afternoons in peak summers and on-off (say, after every 60 minutes) during nights.

"If and only if the AC runs on-off frequently, the life of the compressor, contactors, condensor comes down. If one sizes the AC slightly (only slightly) less than the load existing, then the AC runs continuously ie. heat in = cool in. This balance makes the AC run continuous.

I had already taken up this subject in sufficient detail in another thread for 1.5 TR AC. All rotary compressors are designed to operate for very long stretches and do not require 'rest'. There is something on the starting current and running current explained in the other thread.

Thanks
Finally after countless pages some real good advice on AC size. Please note that most electrical motors and capacitors conk off during starting in rush current including light bulbs.

Always go for one size lesser than whats recommended by the shop fellows who want to sell you the bigger unit especially for bedrooms. Most bedrooms should do fine with a max of 1.2 tonnes. Two units of 0.75 tonnes would be ideal but would be over kill for bedrooms.

If you have a real big room like say a clinic, have two AC units, one that is twice the power of the other with the smaller unit being big enough to maintain a set temperature that has been reached by using both the units at the initial start for about 15 to 20 minutes. For example if the AC guy recommends 2 tonnes as a minimum then buy two units one which is .75 tonne and the other that is 1.2 or 1.5 tonnes. Switch on both during summer months if need be and use only .75 tonne to maintain temperatures during other months and in the evening. You will save a packet on electricity and both units will last a real long time.

If its a sun facing clinic with windows then get one 1 tonne unit and aother 1.2 tonne unit. Both units need not be from the same company. You can mix and match between General and Daikin. Make sure the smaller unit is 5 star rated since its going to be on continuously and the bigger unit of any star rating.

The trick is to ensure that the on/off cycle is minimized to the minimum.
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Old 24th April 2011, 19:39   #1686
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmax View Post
Hi guys, I am about to go and buy one AC now. have Seen the below models:
LG - 1 ton - 2 star - Rs. 1600
Voltas - 1 ton - 3 star - Rs. 16600
Samsung - 1 star - 2 star - Rs. 15500
Let me know with which one to go for. Waiting for your reply.
I would not go for either of them since all of them listed are assembled with class C Chinese parts. Please note that there are clearly demarcated Class A,B,C grade parts for nearly all Chinese parts. The Chinese can give you extremely good products and down right cheap based on your decision.

If going for the cheap stuff at least have Bluestar on the list.

If you are hell bent on going for the units mentioned above go for the one with higher BTU rating and the heavier outdoor unit.

IF the above are window AC then the same holds true. The Chinese guys skimp on metal making the unit lighter. Aluminium instead of Copper and lighter gauge steel sheet.

My sincere advice is to wait some more and collect enough cash to afford a General, Daikin non inverter models.

May I suggest FT25G Indoor unit and R25G out door unit by Daikin. If you want 1 tonne then FT35G and R35G which is the most efficient AC being sold in India barring none. If any of you find a more efficient unit please do let me know as countless doctors ask my advice before buying any electrical; electronic product or car and I could have missed some good product.
If the AC mechanic mentioned 1 tonne unit then the smaller Daikin will do. General units are equally good like ASG9A and ASG12A.

Last edited by drpullockaran : 24th April 2011 at 20:06.
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Old 24th April 2011, 23:56   #1687
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDP View Post
Thanks mashmash. Have ruled out Voltas already. There are 3 in the family. Would check out Panasonic.

My window AC slot is perfect. It is not part of the actual window, in fact it is not even on the same wall. The slot is at 5'10" height, so no direct blast of cold air on the body. It is part of a double wall, so absolutely no part of the AC unit is exposed to the elements. I love that arrangement. Budget is not a criteria. Getting a split would mean closing the existing slot and losing part of the space outside the window for the outdoor unit. Too much of a compromise for me just to get lower sound levels.
You are welcome. Panasonic does not have a Window AC model.

You seem to have an interesting setup. I would suggest models from Hitachi. A simple model called Kaze or the popular twin blower model.

MaSh
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Old 25th April 2011, 17:56   #1688
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

guys trying to decide between the G series "5 Star" vs. E series "3 Star" Daikin 1.5 split ac.

I dont intend to be spoon-fed but i'll be brutally honest... i'm really bad with numbers. Plus i cant find any website/link where in i can feed the data and get accurate answers.

i'd like to roughly know a few things...

1. how many months in a year do we need the AC to work in Delhi ?

2. what might be an average difference in electricity bill say for roughly per month between a 5 Star vs. 3 Star if the AC was run for about 12-15 hrs a day ?

help on this will be really appreciated as i need to make a decision soon. the heat is picking up.

thanks
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Old 25th April 2011, 18:31   #1689
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post
help on this will be really appreciated as i need to make a decision soon. the heat is picking up.
thanks

Go to the Daikin India website then click on the type of AC you want and then on the next page you will find a link to the .pdf file which will give you the details of the information of any AC you are looking for.

The General site gives you a direct page on the India specific site to the details of the AC.

For general knowledge please visit the HITACHI website.
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Old 25th April 2011, 18:57   #1690
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Here is a nice calculator that helps you compare saving between 1 to 5 star a/c with different permutation and combination:
I want to save electricity
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Old 25th April 2011, 23:30   #1691
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I went to my local dealer in the evening who deals in Daikin and Hitachi amongst other brands. He pretty much has all brands in his showroom.

He had both the Daikin G and Hitachi Ace cut out on display.

So i was speaking to him and he seemed very well informed about various aspects of ACs and very nicely told me about the feature set of the Daikin G and Hitachi Ace cutout. We talked about star ratings, parts being used inside these 2 brands and many other things.

Unlike other salesmen this person knew what he was talking about and impressed me with his knowledge. Here's what he told me...

- hitachi's "Kaimin" is unparalleled.
- hitachi uses a DC fan motor.
- hitachi has Stainless steel plated filter
- hitachi has auto humid control
- hitachi ace cutout consumes less power than the Daikin G series.
- hitachi has more cooling power than Daikin G series.
- hitachi has lots of service centers/franchisees and excellent customer service support.

He said that Daikin does not have enough service centers and does not have good customer support.

The pricing for both the Daikin G and Hitachi Ace cutout is coming to same amount.

I was and still am more keen on Daikin for some reason and He said.... "Sir i'm happy to sell you either as it's up to you which you decide but if you'd like me to make a suggestion then i'd say go for the Hitachi.

I have read some posts that the Hitachi 2010 models were not as good/reliable as their 2009 models. Is that true..? I wonder what's the status on the 2011 models. ?!?

This has left me totally confused.... :(
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Old 25th April 2011, 23:48   #1692
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

If the dealer can sell you this model in 1.2 tonnes then go for it. Last I enquired he wanted me to buy a minimum of 20 units.
Logicool Split Air Conditioners : Hitachi Home & Life Solutions (India) Ltd.


If you are going for the 1.5 tonne unit from Hitachi then go for this model. The sales guy wanted me to place an order for a minimum of 10 units.
Logicool Split Air Conditioners : Hitachi Home & Life Solutions (India) Ltd.

Please note that you will have to buy the copper connector tubings separately for the above 2 models. Prices are real low though and do not be bewildered by the prices on the site which is jacked up tremendously.

The above advice is only if you do not intend to either go for Daikin or General.
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Old 26th April 2011, 14:21   #1693
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

a sincere thanks to all who have guided me in the right direction. i've made up my mind to get the Daikin....

spoke to another dealer and got quote.

G series - 33000
Inverter - 37600

wondering if i should just go for the inverter. The price diff is only 4600. I downloaded the "splits" pdf from the Daikin website and it says that the Inverter type save 30 % power consumption as compared to non-Inverter type.

I wonder whether this comparison is vs. a G series ( 5 Star ) or a E series ( 3 star )

The hitcahi converter is 44000 vs 36500 of the Ace cutout and the difference is large.

However since i'm now firmly going with Daikin and the price difference here is only 4600 between Inverter and G series.

it's left me a little confused.....
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Old 26th April 2011, 22:41   #1694
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post
a sincere thanks to all who have guided me in the right direction. i've made up my mind to get the Daikin....

spoke to another dealer and got quote.

G series - 33000
Inverter - 37600

wondering if i should just go for the inverter. The price diff is only 4600. I downloaded the "splits" pdf from the Daikin website and it says that the Inverter type save 30 % power consumption as compared to non-Inverter type.

I wonder whether this comparison is vs. a G series ( 5 Star ) or a E series ( 3 star )

The hitcahi converter is 44000 vs 36500 of the Ace cutout and the difference is large.

However since i'm now firmly going with Daikin and the price difference here is only 4600 between Inverter and G series.

it's left me a little confused.....
The Daikin is well made no doubt but the extra electronics that go into the inverter model could be its Achilles heel. I would suggest to keep it as simple as possible till the inverter models establish themselves in the market. As far as the 30% is concerned I am certain its in comparison to an AC with no star rating.
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Old 27th April 2011, 14:04   #1695
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

so i've decided to go for Daikin Inverter for following reasons.

1. constant cooling with less fluctuations in temperature.
2. savings on electricity bill as i'll be using the ac atleast 15-18 hrs a days for 6 months in a year
3. compressor is always on so less wear and tear and less breakdowns.

I was talking to a dealer and he offered to come home and calculate tonnage requirements.

He gave a break-down of electricity bills of 3 star, 5 star and inverter according to my usage. But interestingly he asked what kind of heater i used for the winters. I told him a bajaj blower heater though i was not very happy with it's performance and that i wish to buy 3 Oiled Filled Heaters for my rooms.

He told me i could go in for the Inverter AC with both Cooling and Heating functions. He said this AC will work for both the seasons and effectively warms up a room during chilly winters of delhi.

:: Welcome to Daikin Air Conditioners India Pvt. Ltd. ::

so i'm here to ask you guys what do you think about this ? The 1.5 Inverter is costing me Rs 38000 and the Inverter with Cooling+Heating is coming to Rs 57000.

Thats a jump of Rs 19000. I was wondering if i go for the only the Inverter Cooling option then i'd still have to spend about Rs 9000-11000 to get a good quality Oiled Filled Heater. Plus i'll have to find a place to keep it in the room.

Whereas with the Inverter with Cooling+Heating i can have the convenience of both cooling and heating in one unit and also save the space and it looks much neater.

But i had a few questions....

1. Anyone using these two in one ACs ? Are they able to comfortably heat up the room during winters ?

2. Does a 9-11 fin Oiled Filled Heater comfortably heat up a 150 sq ft area ? or will the AC with heating facility provide better performance/heating ?

Winters will come every year, year after year and i want to be able to have comfortable temperature for my parents and myself.

Am i better off with a AC + Oiled Filled Heater or with a AC with Cooling/Heating ?

Thanks guys
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