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Old 1st June 2011, 18:35   #1996
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

After not getting any cooling effect for the past few days
from our 2 yr Samsung Window AC, I called the authorized technician.
He said that the gas from the compressor needs to be changed,
the charges for which is Rs. 2500. The compressor itself has a 5 yr.
warranty but the gas part is chargeable.

Am I being taken for a ride here? Is that the case with other brands too?
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Old 1st June 2011, 22:34   #1997
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by F150 View Post
Ok. I saw two banks in my area. The units are heavy duty. I have purchased a 1.5 Ton split ac for my living room recently.
Winning tenders is an art mastered by some. Do post your experience with the unit towards the end of the season. I hope to be pleasantly surprised

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry10 View Post
Thanks for the input but clarify this for me- Is paying 3-4k more for a Daikin split over whirlpool split worth it?

Also like i mentioned whirlpool split-25k, daikin split-28k. Both are 3 stars. Are the prices correct?
Yes it is worth the extra money and the prices for Daikin are in line with what people have been reporting this season. The Whirlpool's prices though seem to have room for more negotiation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NK@Hyd View Post
After not getting any cooling effect for the past few days
from our 2 yr Samsung Window AC, I called the authorized technician.
He said that the gas from the compressor needs to be changed,
the charges for which is Rs. 2500. The compressor itself has a 5 yr.
warranty but the gas part is chargeable.

Am I being taken for a ride here? Is that the case with other brands too?
Gas needs to be 'changed' ? I believe he would have said 'charged'. However if the gas is there and he indeed said 'changed' then yes, you are being fibbed.
Compressor warranties normally cover mechanical faults. Gas can leak out from almost anywhere in the system including from compressors themselves but is charged for unless the machine is brand new/faulty installation etc.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 00:12   #1998
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
I was looking for a unit there as in 60 bar, 60 psi, 60 something.
The technicians who came before today weren't sure about the unit. Got it confirmed to be PSI today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj
On the ODU side I was asking whether there is an obstruction in front of the fan, in the direction of the throw. Also 6" of space behind...I have explained this scenario in one of my earlier posts.
No, There is no obstruction in front, it has 10 feet of clear space. The ODU is fixed on the wall with standard brackets, and is fixed as far out on the brackets as it can possibly be, but isn't straight. The Bracket's arms are at an angle to the wall, so the top part is 5 inches & bottom 6.5 inches away from the wall. The technician(s) said it should be like that, but find it weird.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj
I would recommend that you get the install of the ODU checked out and reconfirm this 6" business. If it is indeed the case moving the ODU further out by another 6" or the maximum possible will help. Of course the requirement of having a clear area on the other side for a proper air throw stands.
Got the install reinspected as per your suggestions, the technician who came today said that the ODU location was okay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj
DO remember to have the gas topped up once the IDU is changed and actually that would be a great time for them to move the ODU too provided the bit about that 6" gap is correct.
The IDU was replaced today. He used a vacuum pump for 10 mins, and topped up the gas to little more than 60. Unlike before, the AC did cool the room(to 24 deg) through the day today. The compressor still doesn't cut off unless temperature is set to 24 or higher & the grill temp is ~13.2deg(their technique of measuring the grill temp is atrocious).
A shocking discovery was that the older IDU was a possibly a refurbished unit.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 10:18   #1999
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Glad the it is fixed. A refurbished IDU is shocking to say the least.

I got a forceful reminder that in a window unit the sensor is right in front of the evaporator a couple of days ago. I found my new Hitachi cycling. Only then realised what was happening, reduced the setting and everything became Ok.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 12:06   #2000
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Unhappy Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Hello Team,

Finally after full day working with our family electrician, I was able to get the cluttered wires streamlined in our meter box and a separate pair 4 sq. mm cable was routed from the main meter to the Ac box of our dear tenant.It costed him 17 energy units in a night .

My hands were fully having the Mobil oil and very paining since I had to pull the cables to help him.Also it was so hectic to move ground floor meter area to first floor to and fro.I did almost 50 rounds to get the things done.

My Manager was very helpful when I asked for the half leave from him regarding the incident.But work stretched till 7 pm from 10 Am.I asked from electrician whether he want me to be here anymore, he told smiling that no no you can go to office.So, I just got ready in 5 min and went to office.
Reached there at 6:15 Pm, and did certain important work and came back home.due to lack of sleep and rest I could not even concentrate while riding back to home from office.

And adding to my horror,the power strip for the TV setup along with the STB and 2.1 Home theater and inverter was blown.Hence spent other one hour to sort the things and was praying to God to be nice enough not to get the power supply disrupted otherwise its confirmed that I will fell ill.

And surprise, not even for a minute the supply was disrupted but I had to wake up at 7 Am to get the inverter delivered to our family electrician to get the problem resolved.Came back at 9:15 Am from the home village.

Again one surprise was waiting for me. The submersible motor starter made a very scary humming sound when I started it, and hence have to turn MCB off to avert any further damage to pump.

Will be again going back to home with the tension of getting the starter problem resolved since the water will not be there till I be reaching.God favored me again when I saw almost 1000 lt. of water in the water tank.

Really, this June month rubber me off with so much tension,damage and exhaust, that I think I have very much less tolerance left before nervous breakdown.

Regards,
Lalit Tyagi
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Old 2nd June 2011, 13:19   #2001
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

We have a 2 ton Carrier window a/c that has lasted us more than 8 years now. The compressor was changed 3 years back but the ac has started us giving us problems. I presume the problem is due to compressor overheating and switching off till it cool downs.

I presume the overheating is happening because the heat exchange is not happening properly from the front and the back. It appears that the radiator like thing with cooling coils in it with sharp edges ( dont know the technical name) seems to be blocked. So am I right in my understanding so far??

After washing the front and the rear with water the A/C functions properly for 15 days but starts giving problem again.

Now the thing is that we have decided to buy a new A/C. If we buy a window it will most probably a 2.0 Ton O-General A/c and If we buy a Split it will most probably be a 2.0 Ton Daikin A/C

Point to be noted is that my room is on the 1st floor. My room Lay out is attached
Name:  room.JPG
Views: 1202
Size:  71.3 KB

Now The questions are

1. Considering the fact that my room is subjected to sunlight from all 3 sides plus the roof (we dont have false ceiling nor roof treatment) is 2.0 ton a/c sufficient?

2. Is it true that a 2 ton spit performance is better than a 2.0 ton window?? I doubt it but will still ask. I really dont care about the difference in noise level.

3. We have space for a window a/c so is it better to utilise that or close the gap and install a split?

4. Is split more prone to getting spoilt than a window, as it has 2 units to be serviced?

5. Are the choice of brands for window i.e General and spilt i.e Daikin a good choice in terms of reliability?

6. Is it true that a 2.0 ton General performance will be better than a 2 ton carrier performance?

7. If we go in for a split, is the suggested positioning of the split ok? will we get air throw on the bed considering that it will be on the side?

8. Any other suggestions??

Thanks and regards

Last edited by deky : 2nd June 2011 at 13:23.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 14:31   #2002
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

guys i have a query wandering in my mind....

if i put in 2 x 1.5 tons ACs in a 250 sq ft room. Now one of them is a Inverter model and another is a 3 star model.

Now i switch them both ON set the temperature on both to 25 degrees.

In the above situation...

1. How will the cooling be decided ? I'm sure both the ACs cant talk to each other. So once the temperature reaches 25 degrees what happens ?

Does the 3 Star cut out ? And when it does the temperature will start picking up and then the inverter starts working full speed to maintain 25 degrees and then the 3 star also switches itself ON again...?

How does it work out ?

2. Basically to simplify the question i'm trying to figure out how does the combination of an Inverter + 3 star ACs will work to keep the room at 25 degrees ? Who works more, who works less ? how is the load divided and who does what ?

Thanks
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Old 2nd June 2011, 15:14   #2003
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

@rana_kirti; Both thermostats will never be the same. So whichever cuts off first is a matter of which is lower, and is in a slightly cooler environment
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Old 2nd June 2011, 18:34   #2004
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Dear sgiitk,

sure i agree with you on what you said.... however if we had a perfect room scenario... how do you think it would play out then ?

Regards,

Rana
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Old 2nd June 2011, 18:40   #2005
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post
We have a 2 ton Carrier window a/c that has lasted us more than 8 years now. The compressor was changed 3 years back but the ac has started us giving us problems. I presume the problem is due to compressor overheating and switching off till it cool downs.

I presume the overheating is happening because the heat exchange is not happening properly from the front and the back. It appears that the radiator like thing with cooling coils in it with sharp edges ( don't know the technical name) seems to be blocked. So am I right in my understanding so far??

After washing the front and the rear with water the A/C functions properly for 15 days but starts giving problem again.

Now the thing is that we have decided to buy a new A/C. If we buy a window it will most probably a 2.0 Ton O-General A/c and If we buy a Split it will most probably be a 2.0 Ton Daikin A/C

Point to be noted is that my room is on the 1st floor. My room Lay out is attached
Attachment 553996

Now The questions are

1. Considering the fact that my room is subjected to sunlight from all 3 sides plus the roof (we dont have false ceiling nor roof treatment) is 2.0 ton a/c sufficient?

2. Is it true that a 2 ton spit performance is better than a 2.0 ton window?? I doubt it but will still ask. I really dont care about the difference in noise level.

3. We have space for a window a/c so is it better to utilise that or close the gap and install a split?

4. Is split more prone to getting spoilt than a window, as it has 2 units to be serviced?

5. Are the choice of brands for window i.e General and spilt i.e Daikin a good choice in terms of reliability?

6. Is it true that a 2.0 ton General performance will be better than a 2 ton carrier performance?

7. If we go in for a split, is the suggested positioning of the split ok? will we get air throw on the bed considering that it will be on the side?

8. Any other suggestions??

Thanks and regards
Your problem is similar to mine. The outdoor heat exchanger is getting clogged very fast. There are two reasons. One there is a lot of dust and along with moisture it creates a chocking mud. Two, to increase the thermal efficiency, the fins are spaced very close, hence they get choked faster. I suggest that instead of replacing the AC, you wash the rear condenser every week, using a pipe connected to a tap. That is if your condenser can be easily accessed. The indoor unit does not clog that easily, and can be washed twice a season. As you are on 1st floor, you can invest in a bamboo ladder and one roll of water pipe. I got these for around 300 for bamboo ladder and 400 for the pipe (cheaper than calling the AC service man every now and then!)

Now your questions.
1. If you current AC is cooling (after cleaning), then 2 tons is sufficient

2. In my experience, window type AC rarely give sustained cooling, primarily due to their cramped design. Hence a 2 ton unit will give any where between 1.5 and 2 tons. In a split unit both the heat exchangers are bigger, thus giving better efficiency, hence cooling.

3. Get a Split and close the window (better still close it with a thin wall and use the space for shelves)

4. Split and window type have same rate of failure. If the unit is good, then both last 5-10 years without any problem. If not then both can be a hell to maintain.

5. Daikin is considered to be the best in its range, provided you get it installed by Daikin Engineers and not by the dealer's mechanics.

6. No idea.

7. I keep the AC as high as possible (near the ceiling), that ensures that all the air gets cooled. Avoid direct blast of an AC, as it will chill you when the compressor is on and then be uncomfortable when it is off. We direct the air up and use the ceiling fan at its lowest setting to circulate the air.

8. In case you have 3 phase supply, why not explore a 2.5-3 ton 3-phase unit. These are more efficient. I have seen these units advertised on both Hitachi and LG sites.
LG LP-K3685QC Floor Standing AC - Energy Saving, Better starting current, Plasma filter, Designer panel - LG Electronics IN
LG TP-C488TLC1 Floor Standing AC - Plasma purifier, Anti corrosion Gold Fin, Auto swing, Zero Standby power, Self diagnosis function , Timer function - LG Electronics IN
Atom XL : Hitachi Home & Life Solutions (India) Ltd.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 19:25   #2006
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Your problem is similar to mine. The outdoor heat exchanger is getting clogged very fast. There are two reasons. One there is a lot of dust and along with moisture it creates a chocking mud. Two, to increase the thermal efficiency, the fins are spaced very close, hence they get choked faster. I suggest that instead of replacing the AC, you wash the rear condenser every week, using a pipe connected to a tap.

.................................................. .....

8. In case you have 3 phase supply, why not explore a 2.5-3 ton 3-phase unit. These are more efficient. I have seen these units advertised on both Hitachi and LG sites.
LG LP-K3685QC Floor Standing AC - Energy Saving, Better starting current, Plasma filter, Designer panel - LG Electronics IN
LG TP-C488TLC1 Floor Standing AC - Plasma purifier, Anti corrosion Gold Fin, Auto swing, Zero Standby power, Self diagnosis function , Timer function - LG Electronics IN
Atom XL : Hitachi Home & Life Solutions (India) Ltd.
Thank you for a detailed response

1. Yes I think you are right about the back unit getting clogged, I need to wash it with high pressure every week

2. Why do you say 3 phase units are more effecient? and dont you think 2.5-3 tons will be too much for a 400 sq feet room?

Thanks again and regards!!
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Old 2nd June 2011, 19:43   #2007
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post
Thank you for a detailed response

1. Yes I think you are right about the back unit getting clogged, I need to wash it with high pressure every week

2. Why do you say 3 phase units are more effecient? and dont you think 2.5-3 tons will be too much for a 400 sq feet room?

Thanks again and regards!!
1. You do not need a high pressure hose, normal water pressure will do if you are cleaning it every week or so.

2. 3 phase motors are more efficient compared to single phase motors, hence most of the high power devices use a 3 phase motor. It is also simpler in design (no starting or running capacitor), and more robust, so motor burn outs are less. An inverter unit does not need 3 phase as the motor is a DC motor (so that its speed can be easily controlled), but again for higher power a 3 phase inverter is more efficient.

A 2.5-3 ton unit will give you faster cooling in the 45+ degree summer. In my rule of thumb calculation a 400 sqf. room needs 2 tons for the room and 1/2 ton for 2 persons, if you want the temparature to be in the region of 25 degrees, and 4 tons if you want cooling of 18 degrees. My bedroom (16x12.5 ~ 200 sqf. has sun coming on two sides and there is the roof. Our 1.6 ton unit barely cools it to 25 degrees in peak summer. In the evenings it cools, but if there are more than 4 person, then it does not. So even we are thinking of getting a 2 ton unit. One trick I use is to spray water on the indoor condenser every week and clean the muck using a tooth brush, that keeps the indoor coil clean and efficient.
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Old 2nd June 2011, 21:17   #2008
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post
After washing the front and the rear with water the A/C functions properly for 15 days but starts giving problem again.
The present machine is on the North wall. Jaipur gets winds mostly from the North Northwesterly direction and your aircon is directly in the path of the dust that comes along.

see my jottings in bold within the remainder of your post below.


Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post
Now The questions are

1. Considering the fact that my room is subjected to sunlight from all 3 sides plus the roof (we dont have false ceiling nor roof treatment) is 2.0 ton a/c sufficient?

Just about there.

2. Is it true that a 2 ton spit performance is better than a 2.0 ton window?? I doubt it but will still ask. I really dont care about the difference in noise level.

Yes

3. We have space for a window a/c so is it better to utilise that or close the gap and install a split?

Close or convert to a window etc.

4. Is split more prone to getting spoilt than a window, as it has 2 units to be serviced?

No.

5. Are the choice of brands for window i.e General and spilt i.e Daikin a good choice in terms of reliability?

I would go with the Hitachi Star with a 2.2 ton scroll compressor as the first choice and the Generals two ton machine as the second choice.
I will discount the Daikins as they seem to be putting out slightly derated machines on account of the new gas.
http://www.hitachi-hli.com/pdfs/Hita...cification.pdf

In case you wish to go for a 3 phase machine then look at Hitachi Atom XL. It is a 3.5 ton machine and runs on three phase supply. Equipped with a twin rotary compressor it will keep you super cool but is slightly over capacity.
http://www.hitachi-hli.com/pdfs/Hita...cification.pdf

6. Is it true that a 2.0 ton General performance will be better than a 2 ton carrier performance?

It is on a completely different level.

7. If we go in for a split, is the suggested positioning of the split ok? will we get air throw on the bed considering that it will be on the side?

No neither is the positioning OK nor will you get any throw.

8. Any other suggestions??

Mount the IDU on the South wall, offset from your bed. Preferably on the side away from the door.
1. Here you can direct the vents to give you a throw if you so desire.
2. This is the coolest wall of the room so IDU will be happy and will keep you happier.
3. The ODU can be located just behind the IDU thereby
3.a. Keeping the piping to a minimum thus reducing the load on the machine
3.b. Being on the porch the ODU will be easily accessible for cleaning etc.
3.c. It will always be in a shade again making life easier.
4. The IDU in this position will cool the area of primary use first and faster.
5. This position will make your room near perfect in terms of Vaastu.


Thanks and regards
Quote:
Originally Posted by deky View Post

1. Yes I think you are right about the back unit getting clogged, I need to wash it with high pressure every week

Now you know why.

2. Why do you say 3 phase units are more effecient? and dont you think 2.5-3 tons will be too much for a 400 sq feet room?

Cause Mr. Roy says so, so they are and
2.5 ~3 are on the right side and then just on the border.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post
Dear sgiitk,

sure i agree with you on what you said.... however if we had a perfect room scenario... how do you think it would play out then ?

Regards,

Rana
Hi Rana,

Go ahead and install the machines and watch the devils dance let us know too how it goes.

Regards
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Old 2nd June 2011, 23:57   #2009
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

lol... i've always had a curious mind...! should have been a scientist
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Old 3rd June 2011, 00:02   #2010
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I understand (well, not exactly understand, but I've always been told) that 3-phase motors are more efficient than single phase. Much of the industrial equipment I've seen has been 3-phase.

However, what of a situation such as mine, where the voltage is highly unreliable, and phases quite likely to fade in and out?

It's an academic question from me (though interesting), but, given the state of the nation's power supply, the answer is likely to benefit someone out there.
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