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Old 22nd March 2012, 07:51   #2416
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Post Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
@manim, the ODU is simply placed on the anti vibration pads. It does not look bolted down through the provided feet. If this is indeed the case please have foundation / Anchor bolts installed.
Done!
It was done later after the photos were taken.

But is vacuuming essential during installation?
My installer said it was not necessary.
Though the cooling appears adequate I find that the grill temperature is not as cold as I expected.

The next few days I am going to take hourly electricity-meter readings to study the consumption. So far it appears to consume very low electricity compared to the non-inverter older one.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 11:11   #2417
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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More worrisome than the water problem is the broken lock between the unit and the wall. Please get that rectified and post a couple snaps of the problem area.

Back to the water issue, In case the water is flowing back in to the room from the indoor unit it could simply be due to the broken lock which may have changed the slope of the indoor unit. The other reason could be that the mouth of the drain pipe is choked, the drain pipe itself is choked or the exit point of the drain pipe at the other end is choked. Clean it ASAP, you may want to blow from the exit end of the pipe and that will clean out the pipe. One Cation though when you do this a whole lot of dirty water and muck will flow in to the room so ne prepared for that. Blow till all of the muck is out.

Another thing, why is your blower getting choked with dirt? What about the filters in the indoor unit? These are mounted for the primary reason of saving the blowers from getting dirty. Are these not being cleaned on a regular basis? If not then please do so immediately and follow up on a weekly basis.
Thanks Khoj, will try to get some snaps if possible as there's very lil gap to get a snap from the top, from sides its just an unusual gap between the wall and the unit.

If the slope is disturbed then it should leak all the times like in the drain tray out, its happening only at the time of compressor gets off, the very next moment I can see a steam of water oozes through the blower wall from top. This is what confuses me, had it been ice formation drain it would've taken some time to get it melted. I used to run it for 6 hrs in night with a temp setting of 24C and now I've made a funnel from a Xray film to guide the water to a bottle Now am some water seepage is rectified for temporarily.

Is it normal the drain tray is always retaining some water? I've cleaned it with a 5 MM flexible hose through the hole and its not overflowing at all. Yes room is always seems to be dusty mostly due to talcum powder I guess (thanks to my kids) I used to clean the filters once in a month and there wont be much dust accumulation on the filters but during this time I've noticed that the cooling fins were coated with dust particles and I used to clean that also (only the front portion) this time I opened the front cover fully and cleaned the whole area including the top portions which was fully blocked with dust and the blower was fully coated with dust foaming like fibers due to excessive formation. I must admit that, it was never serviced properly for the last 6 months as no one will be at home at day time.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 19:24   #2418
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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A 1.8 ton machine may not be enough for the area being discussed, unless summers are mild in Calcutta. Even then the next model i.e. the 2.2 ton unit will be required. Further since your usage is not much, why do you not look at the non inverter models with higher COP. I would have recommended the FTG series except for the fact that it is restricted to the FT60GV1G6, which again is a 1.8 ton model.

Panasonic is not bad at all. In fact some of the better machines available today come from Panasonic.
Thank you, khoj. You have pointed out exactly what I was thinking about, but was not sure if I was right. If the maximum cooling capacity of an inverter model is less than what is required to cool a certain area, all the advantage of having the inverter technology is gone, namely the AC will never or very seldom operate at less than the maximum cooling capacity, and hence it will not be energy efficient. On the other hand, a non-inverter model with the same maximum cooling capacity but with a higher COP may actually be more efficient because it draws less current at that max cooling capacity (because COP is less).

However, my problem now is to find one with the max cooling capacity that is enough for an area of 385 sq.ft. How are OGeneral splits? What is your opinion on the OGeneral model ASG24A (non-inverter model). It has max cooling capacity of 25,300 Btu/hr (while the similar Daikin and Panasonic models have around 22,000 Btu/hr), and at the same time it has a EER of 10.54 (which translates to a COP of 3.09). If the cooling capacity is not too much of a concern, I could perhaps go also with the Panasonic Saphire 2.0 ton model with a 4 star rating (COP of 3.17).

The Daikin 2.2 would be really expensive and truly out of my budget.

By the way, I just noticed that all Panasonic inverter models use R410A except their inverter tropical model, while there is no mention of the gas used in OGeneral website for their splits, and the Daikin I was considering has R22.

Last edited by asitkde : 22nd March 2012 at 19:39.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 19:57   #2419
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Hi guys,

I need to add a new A/C to one of the rooms' in the house (11x11).
It does have a 1.5T LG window unit but it has conked off and lived beyond its life and is utterly useless ATM.

So now I am looking for a 1.5T unit, brands have to above these LG/Samsung (I do not want to get the gas refilled every year) and all the other not so brilliant brands out there.

I could do with a split to by plying up the window hole but I have to avoid any wall drilling.

Budget -> 35K and below. But want to get a VFM and good quality A/C.

Please help. Its getting very hot in Delhi and May/June are yet to come

Room Details,
11 x 11 x 10 ft, top floor so just the terrace above the room.
10sq ft of west facing windows.
48sq ft of non-west facing windows (they never get any sunlight)
All windows have black chart paper + thermocol on the inner glass wall
Its quite hot when I get back home in the night.

A Hitachi 1.5T 3 Star is for around 32.5K.
Problem is the Hitachi brand outlet is still selling the old models and not the new ones.
I was thinking about Hitachi I-Clean ones too but a 1.2T version costs around 35K.
I really wanted to get something for the brand outlet as they generally do not have installation fee of 1500.

O'General is turning out to be quite expensive through. They start way over my budget.

Panasonic stores are selling the 1.5T pearl model for 26.5K. I bought the same model last year for 24.5K
If Daikin are being made in India, I wouldn't want to go for it as I think the quality might have suffered (I've heard the same thing about Panasonic)

How is bluestar? a 1.5T unit is available for around 28K I think.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 21:01   #2420
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
If Daikin are being made in India, I wouldn't want to go for it as I think the quality might have suffered (I've heard the same thing about Panasonic)
From what I know, both Daikin and Panasonic ACs are made in factories in Thailand.
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Old 22nd March 2012, 21:37   #2421
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
Hi guys,

I need to add a new A/C to one of the rooms' in the house (11x11).
It does have a 1.5T LG window unit but it has conked off and lived beyond its life and is utterly useless ATM.

So now I am looking for a 1.5T unit, brands have to above these LG/Samsung (I do not want to get the gas refilled every year) and all the other not so brilliant brands out there.

I could do with a split to by plying up the window hole but I have to avoid any wall drilling.

Budget -> 35K and below. But want to get a VFM and good quality A/C.

Please help. Its getting very hot in Delhi and May/June are yet to come

Room Details,
11 x 11 x 10 ft, top floor so just the terrace above the room.
10sq ft of west facing windows.
48sq ft of non-west facing windows (they never get any sunlight)
All windows have black chart paper + thermocol on the inner glass wall
Its quite hot when I get back home in the night.

A Hitachi 1.5T 3 Star is for around 32.5K.
Problem is the Hitachi brand outlet is still selling the old models and not the new ones.
I was thinking about Hitachi I-Clean ones too but a 1.2T version costs around 35K.
I really wanted to get something for the brand outlet as they generally do not have installation fee of 1500.

O'General is turning out to be quite expensive through. They start way over my budget.

Panasonic stores are selling the 1.5T pearl model for 26.5K. I bought the same model last year for 24.5K
If Daikin are being made in India, I wouldn't want to go for it as I think the quality might have suffered (I've heard the same thing about Panasonic)

How is bluestar? a 1.5T unit is available for around 28K I think.
Hi Go for Hitachi or Daikin or bluestar, i have Daikin,bluestar and carrier at my home and they are excellent..but daikin is the most silent ,blue star and carrier can be given same status.

1st choice daikin
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Old 22nd March 2012, 23:11   #2422
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Post Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
From what I know, both Daikin and Panasonic ACs are made in factories in Thailand.
Yes, the packaging-carton for the Daikin says Thailand.
Attached Thumbnails
Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-dsc_5997.jpg  

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Old 23rd March 2012, 00:25   #2423
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Vacuuming is helpful in removing any residual moisture that might be there in the circuit. The installers should infact check the back pressure of the gas too before final connections. All this is however is done very rarely and that too if the installation is done in the off season and all this is asked for.

Do post the electricity consumption data, it will be of great interest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manim View Post
Done!
It was done later after the photos were taken.

But is vacuuming essential during installation?
My installer said it was not necessary.
Though the cooling appears adequate I find that the grill temperature is not as cold as I expected.

The next few days I am going to take hourly electricity-meter readings to study the consumption. So far it appears to consume very low electricity compared to the non-inverter older one.


I am in the same boat. The cleaning that you did is far better than any third party service. This week end take the time out to clean out the out door unit also. Fairly easy to take off the top cover blow air by running a vacuum cleaner in reverse and clean otherwise just blow air through the gaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajjt View Post
its happening only at the time of compressor gets off, the very next moment I can see a steam of water oozes through the blower wall from top. This is what confuses me,

I must admit that, it was never serviced properly for the last 6 months as no one will be at home at day time.


At this time 2 x 1.5 ton General non inverter machines seem to be the best solution. Flexibility of two units will help you cover the room properly and per spot requirement either one or both machines could be operated. General machines non inverters use R22 and are some of the best designed and performing units.

Only the inverter series from General uses the R410 gas. Daikin offers both gases in their inverter as well as non inverter models.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
However, my problem now is to find one with the max cooling capacity that is enough for an area of 385 sq.ft. How are OGeneral splits? What is your opinion on the OGeneral model ASG24A (non-inverter model). It has max cooling capacity of 25,300 Btu/hr (while the similar Daikin and Panasonic models have around 22,000 Btu/hr), and at the same time it has a EER of 10.54 (which translates to a COP of 3.09). If the cooling capacity is not too much of a concern, I could perhaps go also with the Panasonic Saphire 2.0 ton model with a 4 star rating (COP of 3.17).

The Daikin 2.2 would be really expensive and truly out of my budget.

By the way, I just noticed that all Panasonic inverter models use R410A except their inverter tropical model, while there is no mention of the gas used in OGeneral website for their splits, and the Daikin I was considering has R22.


Your best bet is a General 1.5 ton window ac, the one with the reciprocating compressor available on order from the company and well within 35K

BTW what is wrong with made in India?? It is anyday better than the made in China Bluestar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
Hi guys,

I need to add a new A/C to one of the rooms' in the house (11x11).

I could do with a split to by plying up the window hole but I have to avoid any wall drilling.

If Daikin are being made in India, I wouldn't want to go for it as I think the quality might have suffered (I've heard the same thing about Panasonic)

How is bluestar?
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Old 23rd March 2012, 01:39   #2424
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
From what I know, both Daikin and Panasonic ACs are made in factories in Thailand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by manim View Post
Yes, the packaging-carton for the Daikin says Thailand.
Thanks for the info. I will confirm the same with the brand shop.
Seems I was misinformed.

@all Any clues on which shops in Delhi I could go to besides the brand shop? (I live in South Delhi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshguy View Post
Hi Go for Hitachi or Daikin or bluestar, i have Daikin,bluestar and carrier at my home and they are excellent..but daikin is the most silent ,blue star and carrier can be given same status.

1st choice daikin
I actually am in favour of Daikin (considering they are made in Thailand) and Hitachi. O General seems to be out of budget.


Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Your best bet is a General 1.5 ton window ac, the one with the reciprocating compressor available on order from the company and well within 35K

BTW what is wrong with made in India?? It is anyday better than the made in China Bluestar.
I was bending towards a split instead of a window because of the reduced noise level of the former over the latter.
I've had and heard bad experiences about LG/Samsung etc.
They need servicing and gas refilling a lot more often than the upper end brands and they also do not cool as well they do.
For me, Bluestar was in the list but at the tail end.


Also as far as I understand the difference between the power usage of a 1.5T 5star vs 3star is of around 150-200W, which is 1 unit per 5 hours more.
Approx usage would be 10hrs a day and since the Delhi heat almost stretches for 200 days = 400 units = Rs. 2000 a year at best.
I'm not sure if that is really worth it since put over 200 days the extra expense per month would be very less.
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Old 24th March 2012, 11:27   #2425
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

The window unit was recommended as you wanted to avoid any wall drilling.
To install a split, the wall has to be drilled at a dozen odd points to affix the hang plate for the indoor unit. Further the wall has to be drilled through for the gas + condensate tubing, water pipe and the electric cable to pass through. This will be a 2" dia hole in your external wall.

Even if you want to install the IDU on the wooden planks, the planks themselves will have to affixed with minimum 2.5" wall bolts drilled in to the wall. This arrangement even if done properly will always be the weakest link in the install. Anyhow if you do proceed with the planking do get the outer wall planked up too. It will provide better insulation against the hot winds.

Given the location of your room, with direct exposure to the afternoon summer Sun it is more a question of having a machine that is able to keep up with the cooling demands and not the difference between a 3 star and 5 star rated machine. The solution therefore is to go with a better quality split and that is where the General split comes in. Their AXZ18ANN/APN (rotary/mechanical control) and AXZ18GNN/GPM (rotary/remote control) models rated at 19789 BTU/Hr are proven in ambients as high as 50+ degree celsius. The maximum power consumption for this unit is no more than 2 units an hour ( I myself have two of these units but with the reciprocating compressor which have a consumption of 2+ units an hour).

Now in case you do decide to go through with a split I would recommend the following machines.
1. General ASG18A
2. Whirlpool WASR18K40 (compressor from Japanese OEM)

The Whirlpool has good reviews on this thread hence is a better bet than most others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
I could do with a split to by plying up the window hole but I have to avoid any wall drilling.

Room Details,
11 x 11 x 10 ft, top floor so just the terrace above the room.
10sq ft of west facing windows.
48sq ft of non-west facing windows (they never get any sunlight)
All windows have black chart paper + thermocol on the inner glass wall
Its quite hot when I get back home in the night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
I actually am in favour of Daikin (considering they are made in Thailand) and Hitachi. O General seems to be out of budget.

I was bending towards a split instead of a window because of the reduced noise level of the former over the latter.

Also as far as I understand the difference between the power usage of a 1.5T 5star vs 3star is of around 150-200W, which is 1 unit per 5 hours more.
Approx usage would be 10hrs a day and since the Delhi heat almost stretches for 200 days = 400 units = Rs. 2000 a year at best.
I'm not sure if that is really worth it since put over 200 days the extra expense per month would be very less.

Last edited by khoj : 24th March 2012 at 11:28.
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Old 24th March 2012, 16:13   #2426
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Going by capacity, this machine would have been ideal for your room
atom-xl-secification.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
However, my problem now is to find one with the max cooling capacity that is enough for an area of 385 sq.ft.


Daikin must be bought from and installed by Daikin India authorized direct dealers for the warranty to be valid. There is a Daikin Plaza in Kirti Nagar market and the same dealer has a setup in Kotla (Soouth EXt. part I for south delhi based customers). There are many others in South Delhi but I do not like any of them except Viraj enterprises. He is based in Zamroodpur opposite LSR college or to be more precise behind Blue Bells School.

For General contact their sales office in Okhla Phase III and ask for someone nearest to your place. There is Cool Breeze aircon based in Ajit Arcade (first floor) in Kailash colony and technically their work is good but the Bedi brothers charge sky high prices for installation and material. Negotiate very hard and then harder but since the season is on I doubt if they will budge. The Daikin guy (kirti nagar wala above) is also authorized for General and usually is the most competitive but I have no idea of their workmanship.

Scout Yusuf Sarai market (opposite the Gurudwara) with Pankaj, DK & others for bargains except for Daikin. One of these shops is run by a Sardar Gentleman and he is the South Delhi stockist for Whirlpool appliances, may have airconditioners too.

For Hitachi go to Anamika enterprises in CR Park market no. 2, he is one of the largest dealers for Hitachi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
@all Any clues on which shops in Delhi I could go to besides the brand shop? (I live in South Delhi)

Since you prefer Hitachi you could look at the following model as it's compressor is rated at 18460 Btu/hr. This is third highest cooling capacity after General and Whirlpool mentioned in my earlier post.
sugoi.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
I actually am in favour of Daikin (considering they are made in Thailand) and Hitachi. O General seems to be out of budget.

Last edited by khoj : 24th March 2012 at 16:29. Reason: posting additional information
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Old 24th March 2012, 17:39   #2427
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Going by capacity, this machine would have been ideal for your room
Attachment 906792
...
This is a 3, 400V machine. Not quite for domestic application.
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Old 24th March 2012, 20:46   #2428
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Saw an ad in today ToI about Lloyd's Portable AC.

Is anyone using a portable AC. How is the performance ? how comparable is it with Window and Split ACs ?

Is it an air cooler or a proper airconditioning system ?
(pardon me if this is a dumb question)
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Old 24th March 2012, 21:03   #2429
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I concur with your observation Mathurji, that is the reason I stated "by capacity....would have been" and not "is ideal"

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
This is a 3, 400V machine. Not quite for domestic application.


Portable aircons have been discussed at length elsewhere in this thread. Not suitable to replace conventional machines, these are used wherever temporary conditioning is required. Medical/Relief camps, Film and serial shootings, exhibition booths, election campaigns etc etc trust you get the picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bnzjon View Post
Saw an ad in today ToI about Lloyd's Portable AC.

Is anyone using a portable AC. How is the performance ? how comparable is it with Window and Split ACs ?

Is it an air cooler or a proper airconditioning system ?
(pardon me if this is a dumb question)
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Old 24th March 2012, 21:34   #2430
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Is there a AC solution for a drawing room 16x25 that has ceiling at 25 ft. It's started to get hotter now, earlier the warm air used to rise but some design changes to our staircase is resulting in entrapment of hotter air. Please help.
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