Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears > Gadgets, Computers & Software


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 24th March 2012, 21:42   #2431
BHPian
 
mjumrani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 365
Thanked: 254 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Thank you for the detailed replies
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
The window unit was recommended as you wanted to avoid any wall drilling.
To install a split, ...
better insulation against the hot winds.
I am now sure that I want a split instead of a window a/c, main reason is noise.
I do not want to drill holes in the wall so I will have to plank up the current a/c slot. (the 2.5" screws are a non issue.)
Will call the carpenter once the old a/c is exchanged and have a detailed discussion with him since I also need to put the grill back on that hole, otherwise it would be unsafe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Given the location of your room, ......
Now in case you do decide to go through with a split I would recommend the following machines.
1. General ASG18A
2. Whirlpool WASR18K40 (compressor from Japanese OEM)

The Whirlpool has good reviews on this thread hence is a better bet than most others.
My thoughts were going in the same direction in regard to cooling capacity with the addition of minimal sound level.

The splits that you have suggested, are they available under 35k? (It would be really hard for me to stretch beyond that)
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Daikin must be bought from and installed by Daikin India authorized direct dealers for the warranty to be valid.
Also another concern is that I have to get rid of the current window a/c and I do not know how to do that besides giving it in exchange.
Do brand shops offer exchange?

Going outside brand shop would automatically add 1.5k to the price due to the installation charges.
Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
There is a Daikin Plaza in Kirti Nagar market and the same dealer has a setup in Kotla (Soouth EXt. part I for south delhi based customers). There are many others in South Delhi but I do not like any of them except Viraj enterprises. He is based in Zamroodpur opposite LSR college or to be more precise behind Blue Bells School.

For General contact their sales office in Okhla Phase III and ask for someone nearest to your place. There is Cool Breeze aircon based in Ajit Arcade (first floor) in Kailash colony and technically their work is good but the Bedi brothers charge sky high prices for installation and material. Negotiate very hard and then harder but since the season is on I doubt if they will budge. The Daikin guy (kirti nagar wala above) is also authorized for General and usually is the most competitive but I have no idea of their workmanship.

Scout Yusuf Sarai market (opposite the Gurudwara) with Pankaj, DK & others for bargains except for Daikin. One of these shops is run by a Sardar Gentleman and he is the South Delhi stockist for Whirlpool appliances, may have airconditioners too.

For Hitachi go to Anamika enterprises in CR Park market no. 2, he is one of the largest dealers for Hitachi.
Brilliant info mate. Thanks again
So my schedule for the week is set in scouting the splits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Since you prefer Hitachi you could look at the following model as it's compressor is rated at 18460 Btu/hr. This is third highest cooling capacity after General and Whirlpool mentioned in my earlier post.
Attachment 906794
Ace Cutout 1.5T split has the same specs but its noise level at the slowest fan speeds is 6dB less than Sugoi(40vs34), thus I am thinking about getting it but the price quoted as of now is 38300. (Bad at bargaining)
That being said, Sugoi does have superior airflow by 53CFM. Everything else is same otherwise.

Is it advisable to put the ODU on the roof?
mjumrani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 00:49   #2432
BHPian
 
abhi3284's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 150
Thanked: 51 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

After reading some positive reviews about Panasonic AC's, I am planning to purchase the 3* Econ Pearl 1 Ton AC, priced at 24500\-. However, i had a concern. The Compressor will be placed right behind the AC Wall on the Balcony Loft. Now, my concern is that this area is exposed to Sunlight and Rain. There is a Roof above our Balcony but it is on the 2nd Floor Level and i live on the 1st Floor. Will it affect the Compressor and\or the AC Cooling and\or Power Consumption ? Any precautions that i need to take or the Panasonic Blue Fin Condenser is good enough to handle direct sunlight and rain ?
abhi3284 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 09:13   #2433
BHPian
 
one-77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Thrissur
Posts: 357
Thanked: 198 Times
Default

As recommended by khoj, we've installed two Panasonic 1.5 ton 3-star machines in the first floor bedrooms at home, and are quite happy with the purchase. They are the right size and cool the rooms in a few minutes.
But I have a querry regarding power consumption. One of the rooms has a 15 foot tall roof and the indoor unit has been mounted at a height of 12 feet. If we set the AC at a comfortable temperature, say 26 degrees, as the ac fan does not cover all corners of the room, we sometimes need to use the ceiling fan. But if we set the ac at say 21 degrees, the whole room gets pretty cold.
Which scenario would consume more electricity?
Ac at 26+ceiling fan, when the ac compressor needs to work only intermittently, or ac alone at 21, when it needs to work all the time?

Last edited by one-77 : 25th March 2012 at 09:14.
one-77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 10:24   #2434
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 174
Thanked: 160 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

@khoj,
The problem with our living/dining area is that two splits cannot be installed easily. All walls to this area are internal except that it opens to a largish balcony on one side. The balcony is also within the main structure of the building, meaning that it has a roof and does not protrude out of the building. We are installing a sliding door at the balcony with Aluminum frames and 6mm glass sheets. The outdoor unit can be placed on a sidewall of the balcony at a height.

Yesterday we spent quite some time at the AC dealer's place and went through all kinds of possibilities. For the living/dining space the dealer has strongly suggested General ASGA24AET model. This has cooling capacity of 24282 BTU/hr. Our dealer is quite confident that it will cool the space quite adequately, and they said they had done similar installation elsewhere too. Just across the road from the dealership, there is a Vodafone brand shop where they have installed it, and despite having at least 8 people and computers there, this AC is doing a fine job. The dealer says this AC is designed to cool with an ambient temp of 52 degrees, and Kolkata max temp during high summer is usually 35-38 degrees.

One thing I do not like about this particular model is that COP is only 2.78 (that means the EER is only 9.48). But I guess, one has to pay the price for cooling the large area either way (having one or two splits).

For one of the bedrooms, we have decided on a Daikin 1.0 ton inverter (R-22). The other bedroom will use one of our current window Acs (to be replaced at an appropriate time), and for the 3rd bedroom which will be sparingly used we have decided to get a old stock (but new) Panasonic 4 star Saphire model 1.0 ton that we are getting at a discounted price of Rs 23k.

It will be very nice to hear your opinion.

Last edited by asitkde : 25th March 2012 at 10:26.
asitkde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 11:36   #2435
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,105
Thanked: 983 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
@khoj,
The problem with our living/dining area is that two splits cannot be installed easily. All walls to this area are internal except that it opens to a largish balcony on one side. The balcony is also within the main structure of the building, meaning that it has a roof and does not protrude out of the building. We are installing a sliding door at the balcony with Aluminum frames and 6mm glass sheets. The outdoor unit can be placed on a sidewall of the balcony at a height.

Yesterday we spent quite some time at the AC dealer's place and went through all kinds of possibilities. For the living/dining space the dealer has strongly suggested General ASGA24AET model. This has cooling capacity of 24282 BTU/hr. Our dealer is quite confident that it will cool the space quite adequately, and they said they had done similar installation elsewhere too. Just across the road from the dealership, there is a Vodafone brand shop where they have installed it, and despite having at least 8 people and computers there, this AC is doing a fine job. The dealer says this AC is designed to cool with an ambient temp of 52 degrees, and Kolkata max temp during high summer is usually 35-38 degrees.

One thing I do not like about this particular model is that COP is only 2.78 (that means the EER is only 9.48). But I guess, one has to pay the price for cooling the large area either way (having one or two splits).

For one of the bedrooms, we have decided on a Daikin 1.0 ton inverter (R-22). The other bedroom will use one of our current window Acs (to be replaced at an appropriate time), and for the 3rd bedroom which will be sparingly used we have decided to get a old stock (but new) Panasonic 4 star Saphire model 1.0 ton that we are getting at a discounted price of Rs 23k.

It will be very nice to hear your opinion.
Though it will be more expensive, why not try a large multisplit unit. Your requirement seems to be
2T D/D
1x3T bedrooms

A 3-4 ton ODU with 4/5 IDU will be sufficient. As these units have excellent efficiency down to 20% of rated capacity, a 4 ton unit can deliver between 4 and 1 tons with equal efficiency. All that you have to be careful is of the peak load. You can even provision for 3T in D/D, while keeping the total at 4T (say only 1 bedroom with D/D, at a time).

Most major players - Daikin, Hitachi, LG have the solution, which can be found under "Professional Solutions", rather than under "Home Solutions". All have super efficient and long lasting compressors which last upwards of 20 years compared to 5-10 years for home solutions.

In case you are interested, you can even have small IDU of 1/2T or less in your toilets and kitchen without affecting peak capacity!
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 12:47   #2436
BHPian
 
AvinashV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 158
Thanked: 33 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Guys i went looking for an AC today but got a little confuesd with how to calculate per hour consumtion based on the new BEE norms label. Is power input which for example was 1600 for an AC, a per hour cosumption of 1.6 watts?
For a 2 star panasonic split ac the same was shown as 1180 & the guy at the showroom was that it means it consumes 1.18 units an hour. Is that the calculation & is that how much splits consume?
AvinashV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th March 2012, 13:47   #2437
Senior - BHPian
 
khoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dilli
Posts: 2,722
Thanked: 1,250 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

No problem at all but there will be some performance derating under the direct summer Sun compared to what it would be in shade, apart from that one is free to place it on the roof or on the ground too. Every machine's specs give out in meters the allowed variance in height between the IDU and the ODU as well as the horizontal distance. The two units can be installed anywhere within the allowed variance without derating the compressor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
Is it advisable to put the ODU on the roof?


The outdoor units of the splits are called "outdoor units" as they are meant to be placed "outdoors".

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhi3284 View Post
or the Panasonic Blue Fin Condenser is good enough to handle direct sunlight and rain ?


I am not even going to think about answering this very subjective query but would recommend that you try setting the temperature at 23~24 Deg C to achieve a balance between comfort and consumption. To me 21 Deg C is too cold and 26 Deg C is not at all comfortable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by one-77 View Post
we've installed two Panasonic 1.5 ton 3-star machines in the first floor bedrooms at home, and are quite happy with the purchase. They are the right size and cool the rooms in a few minutes.

But I have a querry regarding power consumption.


I do not mean to intrude but Aluminum windows are the worst kind that are there. I know the whole nation loves them and even my own apt. in New Bombay has these but I hate them. They offer poor insulation against the temperature variations as well as against sound. They will dance along with the vibrations from the nearest source (read motors, compressors) & jump off their channels on their own will and fancy. May I suggest wooden or even UPVC windows.
World Class Windows Delhi, UPVC Windows New Delhi, UPVC Doors New Delhi


Coming to the airconditioner itself, yes the old school General machines (non inverter range) are proven in extremely high ambient conditions. If the Vodafone store is equivalent in size/load to your room then the solution is simple. Otherwise I was going to suggest using vertical tower type indoor units. These would be a last resort as the units are well generally dowdy in looks and can take away from the decor of a room. As for installing 2 units on internal walls. It can be done by digging a 2" channel in the walls which would be at least 5" thick (4" brick & 1/2" plaster on either side). Easier said than done it does increase the interior work manifold. However, if the 2 ton unit works out that would be the best and it should given the ambient values advised by you.

Any ODU would be lucky to reside covered balcony open on one side. For the machine that is the equivalent of an independent villa.

For a similar capacity machine you may want to look at the Star from Hitachi. This machine has a scroll compressor due to which it offers a higher rating of 2.2 tons and better EER & COP numbers. Consumption aside for the larger tonnage it is a better design and should last longer /deteriorate at a slower rate as the years go by than a reciprocating and a rotary compressor of equal capacity.

star-specification (1).pdf

With max summer temp of 38 deg C while a 1 ton inverter may do the job, one would want to confirm that the machine is equipped with the 'Swing' compressor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asitkde View Post
@khoj,
The problem with our living/dining area is that two splits cannot be installed easily. All walls to this area are internal except that it opens to a largish balcony on one side. The balcony is also within the main structure of the building, meaning that it has a roof and does not protrude out of the building. We are installing a sliding door at the balcony with Aluminum frames and 6mm glass sheets. The outdoor unit can be placed on a sidewall of the balcony at a height.

Yesterday we spent quite some time at the AC dealer's place and went through all kinds of possibilities. For the living/dining space the dealer has strongly suggested General ASGA24AET model. This has cooling capacity of 24282 BTU/hr.

One thing I do not like about this particular model is that COP is only 2.78 (that means the EER is only 9.48). But I guess, one has to pay the price for cooling the large area either way (having one or two splits).

For one of the bedrooms, we have decided on a Daikin 1.0 ton inverter (R-22).


Any chance of getting a skylight installed or even a small ventilation fan running at low rpm that can suck the entrapped air out. Maybe even one of those round air exhaust vents that one increasingly sees on the factory roof tops these days. Otherwise, you too could look at the Star above and use two such units, one at a height of 10 feet and another at say 14 feet This will create a step effect and create channels of air at the two levels allowing for greater mix of air. It should allow for better distribution and mix of air thereby eliminating to a large extent pockets of air at varying temperatures. Just my thoughts but most installers will not agree to this as the unit placed higher up will see comparatively more load. The optimum solution could be very different depending on the exact layout of the room and openings therein

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
Is there a AC solution for a drawing room 16x25 that has ceiling at 25 ft. It's started to get hotter now, earlier the warm air used to rise but some design changes to our staircase is resulting in entrapment of hotter air. Please help.
khoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2012, 08:57   #2438
Senior - BHPian
 
Sn1p3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,036
Thanked: 223 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj

Any chance of getting a skylight installed or even a small ventilation fan running at low rpm that can suck the entrapped air out. Maybe even one of those round air exhaust vents that one increasingly sees on the factory roof tops these days. Otherwise, you too could look at the Star above and use two such units, one at a height of 10 feet and another at say 14 feet This will create a step effect and create channels of air at the two levels allowing for greater mix of air. It should allow for better distribution and mix of air thereby eliminating to a large extent pockets of air at varying temperatures. Just my thoughts but most installers will not agree to this as the unit placed higher up will see comparatively more load. The optimum solution could be very different depending on the exact layout of the room and openings therein
Thanks! Khoj.
We got the exhaust fan installed and thankfully the temperatures have come down. However, the need for AC is quite necessary now. Earlier the 22ft ceiling merged with 33ft staircase and so there was no need for Aircon, I will take a look at your suggested configuration and machines. Thanks!
Sn1p3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2012, 09:14   #2439
BHPian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 174
Thanked: 160 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

@Aroy,
The multi split suggestion is a nice one. It actually crossed my mind when internal work started in the new apartment two months ago, but something kept me away from it, probably the higher costs, or the magnitude of work needed. I must confess though that I did not simply have the time to think through because of heavy workload at office. Right now, I cannot do very much about it because most of the walls are done as far as electrical wiring, tile-installation and primer painting are concerned.

@khoj,
I prefer doors and windows made of solid wood, or at least the frames made of solid wood. But solid wood sliding doors are not easy to make and needs really good craftsmanship. Please correct me if I said something wrong. I have very little experience in these things. Anyway, there will be heavy drapery in front of the sliding door and should act as insulation. By the way, the Aluminum sections being used are hollow (101mm by 44mm) and should not be too bad for insulation.

The dealership I am getting the ACs from are very reputed and they do not do Hitachi, I learned. They do only Daikin, General, Panasonic and Whirlpool. Hence if I have to get the ACs from them, Hitachi is out. But I know this does not seem like a good reason, but in the long run when after sales service will be needed, I may have trouble contacting too many people for the different ACs, especially when nobody's at home most of the time except for weekends. The Hitachi you suggested appears very nice, but costs nearly 60k (I am getting the General for 44k). We do not intend to use ACs unless it is high summer, because we usually like the outside air and as I said before our whole apartment on the 12th floor is very airy. That's why I am leaning towards the General I talked about in my previous post. I hope I am not making too big a mistake. (BTW, the Emerson precision ACs used in computer rooms in our office have scroll compressors, they do not need high start up currents as well).

The 1.0 ton Daikin inverter being considered for the bedroom indeed has swing compressor.

I like to thank major contributors like khoj and Aroy in this thread. I have been reading off and on this thread for the last many months, and this thread has helped me in a very substantial way.
asitkde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2012, 12:43   #2440
BHPian
 
mjumrani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 365
Thanked: 254 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I'm being quoted 37k + 1.5k (installation) - 2.5k (Old A/c) for Hitachi Ace Cutout 1.5T.
Seems a bit too high and the price offered for the exchange seems a bit too low.

What should I do?

Does anyone know of any Hitachi Brand Shops in Delhi?
mjumrani is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2012, 19:05   #2441
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Delhi
Posts: 2,105
Thanked: 983 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjumrani View Post
I'm being quoted 37k + 1.5k (installation) - 2.5k (Old A/c) for Hitachi Ace Cutout 1.5T.
Seems a bit too high and the price offered for the exchange seems a bit too low.

What should I do?

Does anyone know of any Hitachi Brand Shops in Delhi?
Well I sold my old Hitachi window for 3.5K to a "Kabadiwalla". Try a few and you might get a better deal.
Aroy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th March 2012, 20:56   #2442
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,079
Thanked: 251 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
....
I do not mean to intrude but Aluminum windows are the worst kind that are there. I know the whole nation loves them and even my own apt. in New Bombay has these but I hate them. ....
Khoj, with due respect, you seem to have a personal 'thing' against aluminium windows!
What you have said is not fair at all.
As a matter of fact, I have many UPVC windows (Sintex) installed at my home. I would any day rate aluminium as the better option!
Insulation, both acoustical and thermal, is a function of the glass, whether there are double-panes or not, rubber gaskets around the glass panes, and not so much the frame!
Not to mention that half the airports in the world use aluminium frames for the windows to insulate from the outside, and jet plane take-offs! Because the frame has only a marginal role to play!
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 00:28   #2443
Senior - BHPian
 
khoj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dilli
Posts: 2,722
Thanked: 1,250 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

you have hit the nail on the head with the statement below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
you seem to have a personal 'thing' against aluminium windows!

My experience with AL has been very poor. I used to have AL windows in my apartment in Delhi and some years ago switched to wood frames. Glass remained as is, i.e. single pane float glass. The insulation both thermal and acoustical is miles ahead of what it was with the AL windows and the amount of fine dust wich protrudes all Dilli residences during summers has gone down considerably. I will be using Finesta in an upcoming project and while i am quite impressed with the samples I am eagerly looking forward to seuse their frames etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
What you have said is not fair at all.
As a matter of fact, I have many UPVC windows (Sintex) installed at my home. I would any day rate aluminium as the better option!
Insulation, both acoustical and thermal, is a function of the glass, whether there are double-panes or not, rubber gaskets around the glass panes, and not so much the frame!
khoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 13:22   #2444
BHPian
 
thewhiteknight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poona
Posts: 101
Thanked: 199 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I just picked up a Hitachi 1.5T 5 star window ac. Got it for 29888 from the Reliance digital store in Amanora mall. Guys came this morning and installed it.

I must say, I am pretty impressed with the entire experience. I bought the ac on Sat night-it was delivered to me the next day in the afternoon. Monday evening, the ac tech came and took measurements and generally saw everything over. He couldn't install it because after 6, my society does not allow any construction/drilling kind of noises. He promised he would be back this morning. Turned up at 10, installed it in an hour and all is well. Now all I need to see is how good the ac is

One question I did have, the exact model number of my ac is RAV518ERD. Now I cannot find this exact model anywhere online, except in the shopping sites (naaptol, infibeam, homeshop18, etc). The Hitachi site has a RAV518ESD listed which has the exact same features as mine but not the exact same model number. Anyone with ideas why this is.

Last edited by thewhiteknight : 27th March 2012 at 13:23.
thewhiteknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th March 2012, 13:39   #2445
BHPian
 
mjumrani's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 365
Thanked: 254 Times
Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thewhiteknight View Post
I just picked up a Hitachi 1.5T 5 star window ac. Got it for 29888 from the Reliance digital store in Amanora mall. Guys came this morning and installed it.
...
The Hitachi site has a RAV518ESD listed which has the exact same features as mine but not the exact same model number. Anyone with ideas why this is.
Brilliant buy mate.
a 5* and 1.5 tonner less that 30k is a rare thing and that too Hitachi.

The model you got is 2011 model that is why you cannot find it on the website.
mjumrani is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Automotive air conditioner servicing & maintenance vebmetal Technical Stuff 163 11th September 2017 19:10
Fitting an Air-conditioner in the Maruti 800 navdeep Technical Stuff 95 24th March 2012 17:07
Correct refrigerant level of a automobile air conditioner Sang Technical Stuff 6 15th May 2009 10:26
Best ROOM Air conditioner Max Shifting gears 2 3rd April 2006 09:52


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 03:57.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks