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Old 10th May 2013, 10:45   #3061
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
I think you have already chosen the right manufacturers, and now it is a matter of choosing waht you want from them. I personally would have put General on top simply because I have bought 5 General ACs (and nothing else since 2004) and they are great. I had a Carrier AC from 2002-04 which was totally second rate. Carrier was great till the late 1990s but started losing it from the 2003-04 period.

Now choose which type you want. What is the news on Voltas.
It wont be a Voltas for sure but will be from those 3 brands i.e. Daikin, General or Panasonic. Of these 3, Daikin and Panasonic are tried and tested (as is the pretty old Carrier WAC).

To be fair all 3 brands have given good service but I am leaning more towards Daikin.

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
As it is very old, I am not sure. Normally the panel dimensions are the same, but the depth is not, so you have to plunk it in but including the box.
You are right. Current WACs are smaller and lighter in size than the older units. Even the Carrier AC technician is very impressed by the build.

Cost cutting is very evident in the construction of newer WACs with plastics used in place of metal frame components.

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Originally Posted by drsingh View Post
your current CARRIER AC is rated at 1925 watts.
Actually as per the label on the set it is 2195W and 11.9A at peak (probably at start up). At nearly Rs 10/KWh it is a good reason to look for something more energy efficient.

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Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
They only demand routine and regular maintainance! I would for sure give LG air conditioners the 'sasta-sundar-tikau' tag.
We have a 16-17 year old LG fridge that is coming up for replacement and it will probably be another LG. It has served us pretty well except for a compressor replacement that was done under warranty in the early 2000s. It was due to a voltage spike.

After a refrigerant gas & compressor oil top up in 2010 that replacement compressor has been making strange noises.

LG is not a brand that I am considering at this time for ACs.
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Old 10th May 2013, 11:08   #3062
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
We have a 16-17 year old LG fridge that is coming up for replacement and it will probably be another LG. It has served us pretty well except for a compressor replacement that was done under warranty in the early 2000s. It was due to a voltage spike.

After a refrigerant gas & compressor oil top up in 2010 that replacement compressor has been making strange noises.
My own view is that the life of white goods is about 10 years. So after 8 years or so, whenever they pack up I do not throw good money after bad (or rather old).
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Old 10th May 2013, 11:37   #3063
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Guys,

I am thinking of replacing it with a Daikin Inverter 1.5/1.8 ton split AC. The 2 other brands I have in mind are, in order of preference:

a) General
b) Panasonic

PS - A couple of points about the environment:
a) I live in Pune. Which means hot and dry summers. This year has been particularly warm as Puneites will attest to. The AC will be used for about 3 months of the year - April to June. Once the monsoon sets in the AC is not in use.
How about a swamp/desert cooler? It requires dry hot air to work effectively.
Besides, you are right: Pune's climate requires AC only for April, May and June first half, the rest of year is pretty cool (sometimes cold) with fan.
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Old 10th May 2013, 12:25   #3064
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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How about a swamp/desert cooler? It requires dry hot air to work effectively.
We had a desert cooler many years ago and it is certainly an option when you don't currently have an AC fitted. Cheaper to buy and much, much cheaper to run.

But there are drawbacks; it is no where as comfortable as an AC, the hassles of filling water, noise, cleaning the water reservoir and fibres, dampness & musty smell in the room. All these are a no-no as I have my PC and other sensitive electronics present.

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
My own view is that the life of white goods is about 10 years. So after 8 years or so, whenever they pack up I do not throw good money after bad (or rather old).
Agreed with you and I would have probably replaced the fridge long ago but for some reason or the other, sundry maintenance and replacement activities in the house were at higher priority.

For e.g. the entire 3 phase house wiring and electrical switches including some MCBs were replaced. This work commenced Sunday 5/5 and got over yesterday evening, a pretty intensive and expensive exercise to say the least.

The fridge has been working well thus far but I am well aware it is on its last legs. So we may consider a replacement during Diwali this year.

Last edited by R2D2 : 10th May 2013 at 12:27.
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Old 10th May 2013, 12:46   #3065
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Guys,

.....
My BR currently has a 14 year old (that's not a typo) Carrier 1.5 ton window A/C with a rotary compressor which has served me well over this period of time without a SINGLE problem. Only periodic maintenance was carried out over the years. This Carrier AC is made in Korea and was one of the so called 'high end' models sold back in 1998/99.

I am thinking of replacing it with a Daikin Inverter 1.5/1.8 ton split AC. The 2 other brands I have in mind are, in order of preference:

a) General
b) Panasonic

Having browsed thru this thread I am unable to make up my mind. Request TBHPians to help me in making the right choice. One of the other rooms in my home has a National/Panasonic window AC and a Daikin split approx. 1.8T AC, both installed in the early 2000s. They have been working just as well as the Carrier I referred to above. Hence the confusion.

PS - A couple of points about the environment:
a) I live in Pune. Which means hot and dry summers. This year has been particularly warm as Puneites will attest to. The AC will be used for about 3 months of the year - April to June. Once the monsoon sets in the AC is not in use.
b) In my area of the city, unscheduled load shedding is rare. MSEB performs their so called maintenance activities every Thursday but power is switched off for about 2-3 hours once a month. We enjoy 24x7 power supply, including stable voltage and frequency, a rarity in this country except on those occasions mentioned in the previous sentence. But all this comes at a cost of nearly Rs 9.5-10/KWh, all inclusive, at the current slab. Which lends itself to preferring a 5 star or an efficient appliance.
I have 2 hitachi window AC which are giving excellent service. There is also a Hitachi split which is giving flawless service for the last six years. This time I got a Daikin 1.5 ton Inverter, which is miles ahead of the normal splits. I got it for 46.5K and paid another 7K for installation. I suggest that you go for the Daikin Inverter non heat pump series.

As the cost of electricity goes up, the VFM of Inverter technology will also go up. You may buy an AC for say 25K, but end up paying another 25K a season in electricity bills (10hrs a day @ 1.5KW average = 15 units/day x 150 days = 2250 units). If you run them like we do then it is 18hr/day for 7 months = 5600 units, while an inverter will consume less than half, so I save 2800 units which at the current Rs7/unit saves around 19K. Hence at around 54K for inverter vis a vis 30k for 2 star I make up in a year. If rates go to Rs10/ then it is less than a year.
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Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
I think LG manufactures decent AC units, both split and window! I am not aware of most technicalities but have been using LG ACs for about 10 years now! They've served me well in my home and office, specially the ones in my offices, my on-site office being pretty much in the middle of a limestone quarry and stone crusher (amongst the more dusty environments!), and the one that's in my room, it runs as long as there is electricity, during peak summers, its 8 years old and its still a chiller, quite literally!
They only demand routine and regular maintainance! I would for sure give LG air conditioners the 'sasta-sundar-tikau' tag.
LG AC solt 10 years ago were mostly imported and were extremely rugged. Unfortunately the current range manufactured in India are neither as robust not technologically advanced - a move taken to compete on price (LG splits are the most cost effective splits you can get in Delhi). The only good AC they have are the Inverter series, which I suspect are fully imported, hence more expensive than Daikin.
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Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
I think you have already chosen the right manufacturers, and now it is a matter of choosing waht you want from them. I personally would have put General on top simply because I have bought 5 General ACs (and nothing else since 2004) and they are great. I had a Carrier AC from 2002-04 which was totally second rate. Carrier was great till the late 1990s but started losing it from the 2003-04 period.

Now choose which type you want. What is the news on Voltas.
Again Carrier and Voltas have deteriorated with time, hence no longer a good buy (this is simply from feedback from friends as I have no first hand experience)
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Old 10th May 2013, 14:08   #3066
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
This time I got a Daikin 1.5 ton Inverter, which is miles ahead of the normal splits. I got it for 46.5K and paid another 7K for installation. I suggest that you go for the Daikin Inverter non heat pump series.

As the cost of electricity goes up, the VFM of Inverter technology will also go up. You may buy an AC for say 25K, but end up paying another 25K a season in electricity bills (10hrs a day @ 1.5KW average = 15 units/day x 150 days = 2250 units). If you run them like we do then it is 18hr/day for 7 months = 5600 units, while an inverter will consume less than half, so I save 2800 units which at the current Rs7/unit saves around 19K. Hence at around 54K for inverter vis a vis 30k for 2 star I make up in a year. If rates go to Rs10/ then it is less than a year.)
Thanks for these useful inputs. As we all know, buying an AC is easy but running it is expensive. Your thoughts will most certainly help me with the decision.

As mentioned earlier I'm already leaning in favour of Daikin Inverter 1.5 or a 1.8T split AC. According to the label on the Carrier WAC, it has an EER of 8.2 and pulls nearly 2.2 KW at max. Running power is about 1.6 kW measured via a clamp meter some years ago.

I suppose the modern Inverter ACs are much more efficient.

The return on unit replacement costs will come in the form of lower electricity consumption/bills over a period of time. We run the AC 8-9 hours/night from Apr to June till the monsoon starts. Except for those 3 months Pune has a pretty pleasant climate all year around.

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
LG AC solt 10 years ago were mostly imported and were extremely rugged. Unfortunately the current range manufactured in India are neither as robust not technologically advanced - a move taken to compete on price (LG splits are the most cost effective splits you can get in Delhi). The only good AC they have are the Inverter series, which I suspect are fully imported, hence more expensive than Daikin.)
I have advised by friends/family to stay away from LG and Samsung ACs.

My neighbour installed a Samsung AC last year and its compressor makes a horrible sound whilst running. I do not know how energy efficient it is. Doesn't speak well about the quality of these products. After hearing that Samsung run, I needed no more convincing.

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Again Carrier and Voltas have deteriorated with time, hence no longer a good buy (this is simply from feedback from friends as I have no first hand experience)
+1

My AC technician, the one who comes home to service the Carrier unit, has told me to stay away from the current crop of Carrier ACs as well. They are pretty flimsy and not trouble free like the older models were.
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Old 10th May 2013, 15:14   #3067
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I too had a bad experience with Samsung. After tons of troubletraded it within 3 years for my first Hitachi
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Old 10th May 2013, 16:55   #3068
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

My LG AC remote is not working. Any idea where to get it repaired or buy a new one in Bangalore? I could find many service centres for TV remote, but no options for AC remote.
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Old 10th May 2013, 23:18   #3069
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Hi Friends,

Have question. The split ACs are fit usually on to the beam of the room. The AC pipes that go to the external unit are passed on by doing a core cutting of the beam(a round hole thats made into the beam). Is this technically right to do a core cutting of the beam(touching the structure on which the floor stands)? AC technicians say core cutting technicians have license for the same and they know it and there is nothing to worry.
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Old 11th May 2013, 00:12   #3070
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

There is no set precedent that ACs have to be hung on beams. They can and are hung on any wall that is strong enough to take the weight of the IDU. It could be a 4" single brick non load bearing wall or a 9" external load bearing one.

As for cutting across the beam, I believe a hole of 2 odd inches dia should not compromise the integrity of the beam per se. As for the technician having a license that is a joke, right? I doubt if any of these guys are even licensed electricians or have undergone any course/licensing procedure to work with refrigerant systems forget having a license in anything to do with civil/structural stuff when entire buildings are built by 'Mistris' who learn on the fly.


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Hi Friends,

Have question. The split ACs are fit usually on to the beam of the room. The AC pipes that go to the external unit are passed on by doing a core cutting of the beam(a round hole thats made into the beam). Is this technically right to do a core cutting of the beam(touching the structure on which the floor stands)? AC technicians say core cutting technicians have license for the same and they know it and there is nothing to worry.
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Old 11th May 2013, 12:51   #3071
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
You would be surprised to see who turns up for install as well as after sales feedback call(not just for complaints), provided your install deserves that level of attention. The outsourced service agency scenario as described by you is pretty warped.
........you will learn about regular training workshops, diagnostic & repair competitions, technical updates besides R&D divisions studying their own and competitors product's workings in our environs and actual implementation of knowledge garnered.
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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
As for the technician having a license that is a joke, right? I doubt if any of these guys are even licensed electricians or have undergone any course/licensing procedure to work with refrigerant systems forget having a license in anything to do with civil/structural stuff when entire buildings are built by 'Mistris' who learn on the fly.
Would you please reconcile your exact take on the quality of service provided by these companies?
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Old 11th May 2013, 17:47   #3072
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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There is no set precedent that ACs have to be hung on beams. They can and are hung on any wall that is strong enough to take the weight of the IDU. It could be a 4" single brick non load bearing wall or a 9" external load bearing one.

As for cutting across the beam, I believe a hole of 2 odd inches dia should not compromise the integrity of the beam per se. As for the technician having a license that is a joke, right? I doubt if any of these guys are even licensed electricians or have undergone any course/licensing procedure to work with refrigerant systems forget having a license in anything to do with civil/structural stuff when entire buildings are built by 'Mistris' who learn on the fly.
Usually the portion of wall just above the window is best suitable for split ACs, which is invariably a beam. Also, the other walls will usually be having either a wardrobe, or would be too far in terms of length of tubing requirements.
I recently got two ACs fitted, one Hitachi and one Sharp. Both the technicians drilled holes on portion below the beam, on the wall at the side of the window.
I also feel that it is safer not to touch a load bearing structure, especially in high rise buildings.
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Old 11th May 2013, 21:33   #3073
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by anuragn View Post
Usually the portion of wall just above the window is best suitable for split ACs, which is invariably a beam. Also, the other walls will usually be having either a wardrobe, or would be too far in terms of length of tubing requirements.
The guys who came to fix my AC refused to drill the beam saying their drilling machine will get spoiled. Finally we had fix it onto a wall whose backside is the bathroom, and with the outdoor unit in the bedroom sunshade, they had to drill another hole in the bathroom, to take the pipe upto the unit. My doubt is they chose this elaborate path to make me buy extra length copper tubes. Luckily the default pipe was just enough.
Another unforseen advantage of this method was the drain pipe is now hanging in the bathroom, and everyday i use the AC in this humid chennai weather i collect around 15 litrs of pure water, which would'nt have been possible otherwise as i live in the topmost floor of our complex.

Last edited by Daewood : 11th May 2013 at 21:43.
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Old 12th May 2013, 09:54   #3074
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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As for cutting across the beam, I believe a hole of 2 odd inches dia should not compromise the integrity of the beam per se.
A cut of any size will compromise integrity of a structural floor beam. This is especially true of residential houses and apartments. The beam spans are normally 10 to 15 feet, so depth of beam will be on an average 12 inches. Cutting 2 inches reduces the cross sectional depth by 17%. This is not safe. This is for cut in mid height of beam. A greater risk is that of cutting bottom bars of the beam, irrespective of size of cut. Since the kind of cut we are discussing involve through and through cut, it means all bottom bars will get cut. This is very very risky.

Now the good news. Bottom of beam will be about 8 inches from bottom of floor/terrace slab (beam depth minus slab thickness). Most indoor units are 10 inches high, and some gap has to be kept at the top. So the cut required is mostly below the beam. However if there is any sign of encountering reinforced concrete beam during initial stage of cutting, desist.

In most cases what is getting cut is the window lintel beam. Cutting this will not compromise the entire building, it may bear more load on the window frame. If you are 10" above and 12" away sideway from window you are safe.

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The guys who came to fix my AC refused to drill the beam saying their drilling machine will get spoiled.
They normally have concrete drill bits, not steel. After evaluating the risks outlined above, if you still want to drill and cut steel, offer to buy them a steel drill bit.
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Old 12th May 2013, 10:11   #3075
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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There is no set precedent that ACs have to be hung on beams. They can and are hung on any wall that is strong enough to take the weight of the IDU. It could be a 4" single brick non load bearing wall or a 9" external load bearing one.

As for cutting across the beam, I believe a hole of 2 odd inches dia should not compromise the integrity of the beam per se. As for the technician having a license that is a joke, right? I doubt if any of these guys are even licensed electricians or have undergone any course/licensing procedure to work with refrigerant systems forget having a license in anything to do with civil/structural stuff when entire buildings are built by 'Mistris' who learn on the fly.
Nope they arent any kind of certified professionals who have done some recognized courses. You are right, they just learn on the fly. I almost have been seeing majority of the AC installations done on the beam with a core cutting. The question still remains unanswered, is it safe to get the beam drilled with a 2-3 inch hole? The only relevant answers this installers give is, Sir "the core cutting machine is specifically for this purpose". It doesnt cause any vibrations vis a vis the previous methods when installers use to do it the manual way with the hammer which affects the entire beam.

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Originally Posted by anuragn View Post
Usually the portion of wall just above the window is best suitable for split ACs, which is invariably a beam. Also, the other walls will usually be having either a wardrobe, or would be too far in terms of length of tubing requirements.
I recently got two ACs fitted, one Hitachi and one Sharp. Both the technicians drilled holes on portion below the beam, on the wall at the side of the window.
I also feel that it is safer not to touch a load bearing structure, especially in high rise buildings.
You are obsolutely right in your observation, the beam is the most probable choice left and I have seen major installations on the beam. Upon asking the home owners, they arent too sure about any kind of technicalities or damage to the structure part.

Almost major interior designers also say there is nothing to worry.

Came across one such person who says bottom floor apartments its not done as that is where the entire buildings load is mostly managed.

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Originally Posted by Daewood View Post
The guys who came to fix my AC refused to drill the beam saying their drilling machine will get spoiled. Finally we had fix it onto a wall whose backside is the bathroom, and with the outdoor unit in the bedroom sunshade, they had to drill another hole in the bathroom, to take the pipe upto the unit. My doubt is they chose this elaborate path to make me buy extra length copper tubes. Luckily the default pipe was just enough.
Another unforseen advantage of this method was the drain pipe is now hanging in the bathroom, and everyday i use the AC in this humid chennai weather i collect around 15 litrs of pure water, which would'nt have been possible otherwise as i live in the topmost floor of our complex.
You got lucky, else mostly they are the ones who insist -- "Saab kuch nahi hota"

I am sure our Forum would have several architects,civil and interiors designers as members. They should also contribute their views to this question as the installers may not be wrong or could be entirely wrong in using the core cutting machines, its just that we do not tend to trust due to the way in which they are into this profession(as unqualified without any degree or certificate), we would usually trust a certified professional or someone who is an architect or a civil engineer who leads them which isnt the case so far from what I have found.

There is rampant use of these core cutting machines by the AC installers, as it gets their business going for AC, but the real loss is to the owner of the flat and the building in question which isn't thought of.

Last edited by tush : 12th May 2013 at 10:17.
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