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Old 25th May 2013, 13:31   #3106
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Ice formation in IDU coils is indicative of gas leakage. It is not a good idea to run the machine without the optimum amount of gas.

I too have some icing & subsequent water dripping issue in my 11-12 year old Hitachi Atom since the last few days. Yesterday the machine gave up since the amount of gas left in the system was not enough to cool the room. Called the local AC wallah and had the gas topped up to help tide over the next few days till I get a good deal for a new machine.


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Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Ice is coming out of my indor unit.

This morning I got woken up by grrrr sound. I did not immediately knew it was the AC unit. Upon realising where it came from I turned it off. I then felt some coldness under my feet as I stepped down from the bed. It is a small piece of ice. I turned it on after sometime and its running fine.

There are few previous signs I had ignored as one off incidences. Few weeks back my wife remarked that water droplets are bring spewed out the the indor unit. Then yesterday it just stopped working for sometime: the fan would run but no cooling. At that time I did not check whether the compressor was running.

What could be the problem? Should I avoid running it until it is serviced?
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Old 25th May 2013, 13:41   #3107
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

<Cross-posted with khoj. He's the expert, but there can be a simpler, easier to fix, cause of icing... Try this...>

Clean the air inlet filters. Then check the fan for dirt buildup. Whilst the filters are made for owner maintenance, the fan is much harder. I prefer to leave it to the engineer, who takes the system apart sufficiently to give easy access, but you can do it yourself with a paintbrush, it's just tedious.

Dirty filters = poor airflow = slow/little air moving through the coil = icing but poor room cooling.

Dirty fan = --- ditto! ---

Fix these two simple things, and you should get more powerful draught and better room cooling.

Another thing about ice: if it is on all or most of the coil, my solution will probably work. If it is in restricted area it may well indicate a gas leak: obviously, this is not a user-maintenance situation.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 25th May 2013 at 13:42.
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Old 25th May 2013, 17:05   #3108
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Behemoth View Post
Seems like the temperature sensor on the evaporator becoming faulty. This sensor is supposed to cut off the compressor before it becomes too cold - Get it replaced.
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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Ice formation in IDU coils is indicative of gas leakage. It is not a good idea to run the machine without the optimum amount of gas.
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Clean the air inlet filters. Then check the fan for dirt buildup. Whilst the filters are made for owner maintenance, the fan is much harder. I prefer to leave it to the engineer, who takes the system apart sufficiently to give easy access, but you can do it yourself with a paintbrush, it's just tedious..
Thank you all for the feedback. The regular mechanic said over the phone that he suspect 'magnetic switch' failure. He explained that this shuts off the compressor when set temperature is achieved. He also assured us that it is okay to run the machine. We will try Thad's advise and then turn in on to check.
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Old 26th May 2013, 01:03   #3109
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

My Hitachi Atom is up and running. After having spent the better part of the day searching for an Inverter unit (Daikin with heat pump) in vain, got fed up with the week long delivery time being quoted and decided to get the Atom repaired. Actually the real reason for frustration was that the gas topped up last night was all gone by the morning. So picked up the local Yellow pages and did an Eenee Meenee Miney Mo on the various A/C repair adverts in this month's booklet and picked the winning advert (literally). The guy who picked up at the other end told me that he was completely booked for the day but could be with me at 9.00 in the morning. I reluctantly agreed but the next 10 minutes under the fan churning hot air & I was back on the horn. Asked the chappy to come at whatever time he was able to, the guy politely refused & reassured me that he would be there first thing in the morning but this time I threw him a curve ball. I told him to come in and just top the gas to get me through the night and I would pay him for the gas so the deal was struck X bucks for complete repair & Rs. Y for the temporary topping off. The chap promised to be at my doorstep sometime around 10.00 pm.

Cut to 0930 pm and the guy is at my door along with his assistant riding a Honda Scooter that is nothing less than a mobile workshop complete in all respects. The guy not only has the gas cylinder but complete wherewithal for brazing too. So, he climbs up on to the parapet where the ODU is installed and by the time I reach the window next to the install he asks "Sir, poora kaam abhi kar doon?" I am all for it but.... "will you be able to find the leak in the dark"..I ask him. "Mil gaya Sir" is his reply, @#$ 2 minutes next to the ODU and he claims to have found the leak. Then he shows me his fingers the tips are smeared with oil. He says it is the capillary next to the return check valve that has given away. I rejoice in the sight as that is a sure shot indication of where the leak would be. Our man goes to work and about an hour later he and his assistant gulp cold water as I enjoy conditioned air from the decade old machine revived after it's first downtime.

All done and then it is time for the mandatory disagreement on some mundane point, I say mandatory as without a disagreement where is the fun in getting anything repaired
I ask him "Current kitna hai"
Him "8.5 Amps"
Me " Aur return pressure kitna kiya?"
Him "70 (psi)"
Me "75 kyon nahi"
Him "Sir kal doopaher mein yehi 80 ho jayyega"
Me (with a poker face) "Jadoo hai kya"
Him "Sir gaarmi mein pressure uth-ta hai, sardi key mausam mein karvatey to mein 40 hee karta"
Me (now seemingly with astonishment) "Aissa kyon"
Him "Sir Gas ka kanoon hai"
Me (now smiling inwardly) Kanoon kisney banayaa"
Him "Sir meiney ITI mein pada tha aur kaam mein to roz dikhta he hai"
Jackpot !
Me "Achhaa mujhey kal doopehar mein check karkey bataoo"
Him "Sir kal full book hai parson ayun to"
Me "OK par phir mein Rs. 500 rookunga"
Him "No promlem Sir"
Double Jackpot!!

I pay him the X less 500 bucks and come Monday will gladly give him the balance along an appropriate tip as not only did he make possible for me to have a comfortable environment to sleep in tonight but more so because he accommodated my oddball demand of turning up when I asked him to and that is an increasingly rare phenomenon with repair guys be it A/C wallah, Electricians, Plumbers and what not. In the middle of the season there is such a demand for these guys, that most would have not batted an eyelid and simply refused the job or worse would have promised and not turned up at all.

So, that is it for now folks but I will post again regarding another interaction that I had with a Daikin dealer's installer that made me aware of a peculiar but important requirement regarding the install for airconditioners with the new Ozone friendly gases.
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Old 26th May 2013, 07:07   #3110
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Me " Aur return pressure kitna kiya?"
Him "70 (psi)"
Me "75 kyon nahi"
Him "Sir kal doopaher mein yehi 80 ho jayyega"
Me (with a poker face) "Jadoo hai kya"
Him "Sir gaarmi mein pressure uth-ta hai, sardi key mausam mein karvatey to mein 40 hee karta"
Me (now seemingly with astonishment) "Aissa kyon"
Him "Sir Gas ka kanoon hai"
Me (now smiling inwardly) Kanoon kisney banayaa"
Him "Sir meiney ITI mein pada tha aur kaam mein to roz dikhta he hai"
Jackpot !
He is indeed correct. The return gas pressure is proportional to evaporation(note- indoor room) temperature. Higher the temperature, means higher return pressure. NCR should have 70-80psi(R22) return pressure at this time. Just one suggestin- Have a look at pressure gauge yourself instead of relying on him!
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Old 26th May 2013, 17:01   #3111
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Dear Sharad, we all know that he is correct. Though I must thank you for the spontaneous lesson. It brought back fond memories of my first Physics teacher "Dr. Jasuja" He too had the habit of doling out definitions/explanations and would wander of on an entirely different tangent from the matter at hand we loved him for that & marveled at his grasp of Physics in specific & the World in general..

As for the suggestion I have only a question : Why? Yaar, trust karo aagey badoo but trust with open eyes and ears. If something does go wrong or if the performance is not up to the mark the chap will take care of it. I say that 'cause I could see that the man was confident of his workmanship and proud of the knowledge that he had imbibed in his learning & working years. I would not demean him by asking him to show proof etc... let us allow his work to speak for itself, which BTW the 8.5 Amps running current @ 35 deg C ambient temperature was proclaiming loud & clear as also the machine which is achieving and cutting off at the set temperature of 26 deg C as I post this.

Though I do appreciate that your suggestion is meant for my benefit rather than anything else





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He is indeed correct. ............................... ........Just one suggestin- Have a look at pressure gauge yourself instead of relying on him!
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Old 26th May 2013, 17:25   #3112
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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I pay him the X less 500 bucks and come Monday will gladly give him the balance along an appropriate tip as not only did he make possible for me to have a comfortable environment to sleep in tonight but more so because he accommodated my oddball demand of turning up when I asked him to and that is an increasingly rare phenomenon with repair guys be it A/C wallah, Electricians, Plumbers and what not.
When he comes back on Monday please ask him whether his covered area include Noida, would love to have such knowledgeable person work on my AC. My currently regular guy is also from Delhi but there are lots of missed appointments. He did not come yesterday because the Daikin spare parts shop is apparently closed on Saturday. He has promised to come on Monday.
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Old 28th May 2013, 14:23   #3113
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Hi Guite, I did ask him but the chap was unwilling to take up jobs outside of South Delhi due to the seasonal rush. Hope your Daikin guy came through.

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When he comes back on Monday please ask him whether his covered area include Noida, would love to have such knowledgeable person work on my AC. My currently regular guy is also from Delhi but there are lots of missed appointments. He did not come yesterday because the Daikin spare parts shop is apparently closed on Saturday. He has promised to come on Monday.
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Old 28th May 2013, 14:36   #3114
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Hi Guite, I did ask him but the chap was unwilling to take up jobs outside of South Delhi due to the seasonal rush. Hope your Daikin guy came through.
He came and found some oil blockage (I was not at home). He apparently did a thorough check: no problem with sensor or switch. Gas was a bit low so he topped up.

While he was trouble shooting he called up Daikin technical staff and reported the situation and problem. Their response was that the compressor is running weak (getting old in human parlance). This at just 4 years is . I thought a Daikin would run merrily for atleast 10 years. They said compressor replacement would cost about 8 to 10k. Are they already selling me a new compressor? (Asking myself, thinking out loud).
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Old 28th May 2013, 15:57   #3115
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I do not understand oil blockage, leakage yes but blockage? It is a sealed system, even if we assume there is a block somewhere how can that be observed & released etc. but then again it is not as if there is a whole lot of oil in the circuit, in the compressor yes but within the circuit it is really a tiny amount. Again since gas was low then there has to be a leak because in a sealed system there has to be leakage for the gas level to deplete. Gas being invisible cannot be seen escaping unless one does the bubble test or checks the system specifically but the oil that escapes from the leak tends to smudge the area and can be seen, so if he found oil it indicates a leak to me.

As for the compressor weakening in 4 years sure that is true of any machine. Generally speaking it will start degrading from the moment it becomes operational for the first time but the rate of wear is barely traceable untill a fairly long operational period has lapsed (you guys know this stuff better that I do) and it is well established that airconditioner's compressors do not give away in this kind of a time frame in the usual run of events. The weakness will show up in the form of the excess current that it would consume. That can be checked using one of those hook type amp/voltage meters from the plug point in the wall, no need to go to the ODU for that.

I hope that the leak is a minor one, that will allow you to tide over the season and have the unit checked up thoroughly at a time when the service guys are neither a harried nor a frantic lot.

If IIRC Daikin has a 5 year warranty on their compressors. I believe you should take it up with the sales dealer and understand exactly what your options are vis a vis a replacement scenario.

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Originally Posted by Guite View Post
He came and found some oil blockage (I was not at home). He apparently did a thorough check: no problem with sensor or switch. Gas was a bit low so he topped up.

While he was trouble shooting he called up Daikin technical staff and reported the situation and problem. Their response was that the compressor is running weak (getting old in human parlance). This at just 4 years is . I thought a Daikin would run merrily for atleast 10 years. They said compressor replacement would cost about 8 to 10k. Are they already selling me a new compressor? (Asking myself, thinking out loud).
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Old 28th May 2013, 20:20   #3116
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Oil can leak from the compressor. That points to a faulty unit and should be taken up immediately within the warranty period.

The blockage normally occurs at the tip of the capillary where the compressed gas is released to expand and cool.
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Old 28th May 2013, 21:24   #3117
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Unfortunately we have not been able to trace the original stamped warranty card. It might turn out to be an expensive mistake. Keeping fingers crossed.
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Old 29th May 2013, 18:25   #3118
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

My 3 week old Samsung 1.5T split AC's compressor has conked off.
Srervice guy checked it & has ordered the parts.I'm fighting with Samsung guys for a replacement for the compressor unit but they are hell bent on repair.Its been already 4 days,so finally gave up on them & asked to replace the faulty parts.
Mind you there was no voltage fluctuation or any other reason.I would suggest stay away from Samsung ACs
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Old 29th May 2013, 21:33   #3119
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My 3 week old Samsung 1.5T split AC's compressor has conked off.
Srervice guy checked it & has ordered the parts.I'm fighting with Samsung guys for a replacement for the compressor unit but they are hell bent on repair....
How do they repair a hermetically sealed compressor?
There seems to be some mistake here. It's probably some other part that is in need of repair.
A hermetically sealed compressor would need to be cut open before any kind of repair can be undertaken.
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Old 29th May 2013, 22:47   #3120
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How do they repair a hermetically sealed compressor?
There seems to be some mistake here. It's probably some other part that is in need of repair.
A hermetically sealed compressor would need to be cut open before any kind of repair can be undertaken.
Well this is what the service guy told me.He was insisting on getting the external unit replaced but this would take almost 1 month.
As of now Im going with repairs,will post the details once its done
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