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Old 29th May 2013, 22:49   #3121
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Guite, if your purchase and the installation were from an authorized Daikin dealer, just take it up with them. They can track the sales from company>>dealer>>to you from the serial number of your unit.

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Unfortunately we have not been able to trace the original stamped warranty card. It might turn out to be an expensive mistake. Keeping fingers crossed.

This is turning out to be a compressor busting page
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Originally Posted by kratos11 View Post
My 3 week old Samsung 1.5T split AC's compressor has conked off.

Completely agree with you Sir. AFAIK a rotary compressor can not be repaired and Samsung uses only rotary compressors.
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
How do they repair a hermetically sealed compressor?
There seems to be some mistake here. It's probably some other part that is in need of repair.
A hermetically sealed compressor would need to be cut open before any kind of repair can be undertaken.
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Old 29th May 2013, 23:19   #3122
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Question Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Hello,

Am in the market for a window AC and looking for suggestions / inputs. Have never owned one before so absolutely clueless :-)

Following are some details:
  1. Room size is approx 224 sq. feet
  2. AC Would be installed on wall getting direct sunlight (only this wall is exposed and has window area of approx 24 sq. feet)
  3. All other walls are interior walls
  4. Room is on first floor, have a floor above

As per some reading on web, a 1.5 ton AC should suffice but I am not sure whether 1.5 would be enough or a 2 ton is recommended. Am considering Hitachi based on reading past few pages for this season's summer purchases by fellow members (General was also considered but seems that it's quality has gone down). Could not appreciate the difference between QC & TM much apart from twin motor and hence lower sound.

Panasonic Cube was another option which considered since it is pocket friendly but that is available in maximum 1.5 ton, would that be good enough (in terms of overall cooling even if the effect takes a while to be felt as compared to a 2 ton window AC)?

Also in Hitachi, 2 ton window is available as 2 STAR in TM and 3 STAR in QC. How much of a difference do these make in monthly billing cycle?

Cheers
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Old 30th May 2013, 01:40   #3123
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by sukhoi View Post
Hello,

Am in the market for a window AC and looking for suggestions / inputs. Have never owned one before so absolutely clueless :-)
Panasonic 1.5 ton cube will be real value for money.
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Old 30th May 2013, 17:10   #3124
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Default Daikin FTKV50, Inverter airconditioners with R32 gas

This is the second part of the interaction with AC wallahs from last week. Last week when the Atom lost it's buzz for the second time I considered replacing it. Actually I should say re-considered as this project of replacing two of the splits with inverter hot & cold machines was initiated last year when I was getting the house painted. However at that time the non availability of stocks across NCR put paid to those plans. I pm-ed Aroy in my search for a good dealer and especially for getting a quick response (height of the busy season et all) and sure enough the reference elicited a promise from the dealer that someone would definitely visit me by the end of the day. Sure enough around 1830 hrs. the Daikin authorized dealer's installer was at my place along with the literature for the latest offering in the inverter range. Thank you Aroy for your help in the matter, it has resulted in bringing my search for a reliable dealer located close to my residence to a fruitful end.

So here is the latest from the world of Daikin

Inverters are being offered with the following Gases

R22 Production of this gas will stop Globally this year or is it 2015
R410 Introduced in lieu of the above gas but was always considered a stop gap arrangement ( for more info please surf the web)
R32 This gas was introduced a few years ago as a proper replacement for R22 and has now been brought to India by Daikin. It is more easily compressible than than the R410 and Ozone/Environment friendly and is touted as the real deal for replacing the R22.

Here are some figures for the two gases taken from the Daikin brochure for their 1.5 ton inverter split machines running the R32 gas [cooling only] and the R410 [cooling only & cooling + heating (X)] machines

Gas R32 [FTKV50] versus R410 [FTK(X)S50]
Running current (Amp.) 6.7 versus 6.9
Power consumption (W) 1530 versus 1550
Capacity(Btu/h) 17700[5100~20500] versus 17100[5800~20500]


With the Atom back in action on the same day, I informed the dealership that I will be back for the new machines at the end of the summer season. The climate will be temperate as I am going to change the location of the IDU to comply with information given in the next para and that will involve cutting a new channel through brick work followed by patch up and repainting etc. Further by that time the cooling+heating models with the R32 gas would have been introduced, which I would prefer over the hot&cold machines with R410.

The important bit of information thing that came out of my interaction with the dealer's representative was that the minimum run of gas lines between the ODU & the IDU needs to be 4 meters. At first I thought he was trying to sell me extra length of Copper piping but he insisted that this is an advisory from Daikin ever since the high pressure 410 gas was introduced. The reason given for this is that at lower lengths the high velocity of the gas does not allow dissipation of the force to a level that can be safely contained by the system (this despite a heavier gauge being used for R410 & R32) and over a period of time this results in premature failures especially leakages. In my install the total piping length is 1.5 meters, so they would simply leave 2.5 mts of piping coiled behind the ODU clamped to the wall. On further prodding he said that this is rarely advised by most dealers as the customers get the impression of being taken for a ride what with Copper piping costing Rs650 a meter. I cannot blame the dealers as that was my first impression too. Maybe members here who have machines with the R410 gas could check their installs and share whether they have that much length of piping between the two units.

So this is it folks. A week of discovering a dealer and a repairman both of whom are technically sound and more importantly stick to the timelines as per plan.




sukhoi, on one hand you say that you have not owned an airconditioner before and the you go on to comment on the quality of machines from the brand General.

Is your statement based on comments of dealers of machines from different brands and in fact including General, simply hearsay or from the web. Do elaborate as to the source and also in comparison to what other machines /other parameters has the quality gone down. It will help in updating information here vis a vis the current market dynamics.

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Originally Posted by sukhoi View Post
Hello,

Am in the market for a window AC and looking for suggestions / inputs. Have never owned one before so absolutely clueless :-)

(General was also considered but seems that it's quality has gone down).
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Old 30th May 2013, 19:31   #3125
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Default Re: Daikin FTKV50, Inverter airconditioners with R32 gas

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
.....The reason given for this is that at lower lengths the high velocity of the gas does not allow dissipation of the force to a level that can be safely contained by the system (this despite a heavier gauge being used for R410 & R32) and over a period of time this results in premature failures especially leakages. .....
Khoj, this sounds like that much hot gas!
The velocity of gas in the pipe does not depend on the length of the pipe but on the volume that needs to be pumped and carried per unit time.
And anyway, it is simple enough to reduce the velocity in the pipe by using a pipe of larger diameter.
The real reason is something else and not what you have been told.
I'm very curious to know what it might be.
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Old 30th May 2013, 19:47   #3126
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Sir, it is gas and hot indeed from all the compression, heat exchange & what not. Whatever the reason, I am sure it will be posted here in the days to come.

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Khoj, this sounds like that much hot gas!
The real reason is something else and not what you have been told.
I'm very curious to know what it might be.
Did some more reading

R32 was rejected in Europe 20 years ago as it is considered a flammable gas under EU safety codes. Daikin is the pioneer in reintroducing R32 as under Japanese laws it is categorized as mildly flammable and classified as A2 under ASHRAE classifications.

R410 is a mix of R32 & R125 (this suppresses the flammability of R32). The mix is 70% R32 & 30% R125 by volume & 50% each by mass. The 410 & 32 both require much less charge compared to the R22 for a given load. The operating pressures though are much higher 400psi compared to 80psi. Now R32 is being reconsidered as it is 2-14% more efficient than R410 and also has a much lower GWP (global warming potential) number of 450 compared to 410's GWP no of 1980.

The other thing is that the oil used with R410 & R32 is a 'PolyolEster (POE)' unlike the mineral oil used with R22. Now this POE oil has a tendency to absorb moisture very rapidly. This might be another reason that a heavier gauge is recommended for use with the new refrigerants as it may be able to sustain wear and tear better and also offer increased protectection against accidental punctures etc.

Last edited by Eddy : 30th May 2013 at 23:51. Reason: As requested
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Old 30th May 2013, 22:48   #3127
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Default Re: Daikin FTKV50, Inverter airconditioners with R32 gas

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Originally Posted by khoj View Post
sukhoi, on one hand you say that you have not owned an airconditioner before and the you go on to comment on the quality of machines from the brand General.

Is your statement based on comments of dealers of machines from different brands and in fact including General, simply hearsay or from the web. Do elaborate as to the source and also in comparison to what other machines /other parameters has the quality gone down. It will help in updating information here vis a vis the current market dynamics.
Hello khoj,

Yes, I have never owned one before and yes, the comment/observation is on the basis of reading in online forums & hearsay. I was earlier of the opinion that General & Hitachi are leading manufacturers and make better, long lasting ACs (window specifically) but in recent times quality (specifically build quality & hence longevity) has not been the same as before (read on some forums and heard from a few colleagues).

If however, that is not the case, please call out and that would add to the confusion of which one to buy :-)

Also, inputs on whether 2 ton or 1.5 ton would be much appreciated. Some dealers are saying 1.5 ton would suffice while others insist on going for a 2 ton and am not sure if the extra 0.5ton is really needed by me or just an attempt to sell something bigger for better margins/monies !!!

Cheers
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Old 31st May 2013, 08:05   #3128
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by sukhoi View Post
....
Also, inputs on whether 2 ton or 1.5 ton would be much appreciated. Some dealers are saying 1.5 ton would suffice while others insist on going for a 2 ton ...
It is difficult to say without knowing the geometry of the room, the extent of furniture/furnishings, the peak occupancy that the room would see or the number of doors that may be opened frequently, etc.
I would say a 1.5 ton would do fine. You might need to be patient for things to cool down.

If it is a living room, you should be looking at a 2 ton unit.
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Old 31st May 2013, 08:34   #3129
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukhoi View Post
Hello,

Am in the market for a window AC and looking for suggestions / inputs. Have never owned one before so absolutely clueless :-)

Following are some details:
  1. Room size is approx 224 sq. feet
  2. AC Would be installed on wall getting direct sunlight (only this wall is exposed and has window area of approx 24 sq. feet)
  3. All other walls are interior walls
  4. Room is on first floor, have a floor above

As per some reading on web, a 1.5 ton AC should suffice but I am not sure whether 1.5 would be enough or a 2 ton is recommended.
Get a 2 ton. The room size is large and while a 1.5 ton may be just enough, it will take longer to cool than a 2 ton. Generals are excellent but do note the fan speed of them is higher than the other ac's. Also the window receiving sunlight would raise the temperature a fair amount.
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Old 31st May 2013, 09:12   #3130
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
Get a 2 ton. The room size is large and while a 1.5 ton may be just enough, it will take longer to cool than a 2 ton. Generals are excellent but do note the fan speed of them is higher than the other ac's. Also the window receiving sunlight would raise the temperature a fair amount.
I tend to agree, but then there are two reasons you may not. While 1.5TR is a commodity item, a 2TR is not. Also you will find the COP lower for the 2TR.
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Old 31st May 2013, 09:55   #3131
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My friend and I have purchased 6 airconditioners this season for home and office use this season.

Some insights:

1. Finding the right dealer/installer is the most important thing for split units.
2.window ac units are still a very good option.they are available with 4/5 star rating.easy to install and service. Easy to inspect the build quality/components before purchase.

3.window ac technology is ridiculously simple and unchanged in the last decade.except for higher power efficiency in today's units.

4.our decade old carrier ac was made unfit for regular use by the so called 'carrier engineer" over the last year.the idiot used a car pressure washer and bent the condenser/ evaporator fins,and he replaced the rubber dampening feet under the compressor with ill fitting ones he had lying around.

5.The ac market has not picked up as expected this year, so dealers who have purchased a couple of hundred units in advance are willing to give good discounts.

6.If you're lucky you'll find a HVAC guy who is a service engineer and also sells air conditioners of the same brand on demand. He is in a position to offer a better deal as he earns from service visits and official installs/demos.

7.do a cost benefit analysis of your running requirement and you'll find different ac units will be optimal for different needs.

8.rated cooling performance of 1.5T units varies from 4800watts to 5300 watts.

9.cheapest (.75,1,1.5 T) units from godrej/blue star/Videocon/volstar/onida seem to be made in the same Chinese factory.
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Old 4th June 2013, 21:16   #3132
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Quick update on the Cube AC question I asked a few posts back.

I have bought and installed one 1.5 ton (19000 BTU/hr) Panasonic Cube AC and installed it in my parents' room. The room is approximately 175 sq. ft. in size, on the 8th floor (in a 9 floor building) and faces the Sun. Right now, Delhi day temperatures are in the range of 46 degrees.

The Cube AC performance is turning out quite brilliant. The air throw is lovely, and it cools down the room pretty fast. The unit is reasonably quiet and the only sound you can hear is when you set it at max fan speed (very little though). I am quite happy with this purchase, and am going to pick up the second Cube AC within a couple of days.

I paid 25000/- for the AC, including Stabilizer (140V, 2 yr. warranty), Installation and Wall Stand. At that price, me thinks this is a brilliant buy.
Hey Roy,

Did you get a second one? I am contemplating to pick a cube AC based on your review. Can you throw some more light on the performance especially these days when the temp is hovering around 45~46 in NCR?

To all my fellow friends: NEVER EVER rent an AC; I rented one about 2 weeks ago and since then have had only two peaceful nights. The damn machine is still in repair shop as the compressor needs to be replaced
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Old 4th June 2013, 23:05   #3133
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My friend and I have purchased 6 airconditioners this season for home and office use this season.
.
Continued from the above post:

1.we bought two mitsubushi heavy industries split ac's. 1.5 T to be installed in living area/drawing room.to be used on demand/ 3-4 hours max a day.hence 3 star units.very good dealer and installer.got 4k each discount in exchange for two decade old carrier ac's.1500-1700 watts.5200 watts cooling.

2.Three whirlpool 1.5 T units.replacements for window ac's in bedrooms.easy installation.heavy use.4 star units.they have HIGHLY branded compressors.1694 watts.5150 watts cooling.

3. A .8 T window unit for a small study.2 star.950 watts.2560 watts cooling.panasonic compressor.

We found a dealer who was also a service engineer for whirlpool officially.he let us examine the insides before purchase.
He also gets paid from whirlpool for official installation.,demo visits,free service visits to customers.
And he offered us very a very good price.

His installers started to demolish my older airconditioners housing and the wooden frames with a hammer and chisel before i intervened.the older slotted head screws had rusted and were stuck.

In the end i ended up removing them with my own tools and installed two window units as a weekend DIY job.

The whirlpool acs are actually a national brand copy with a wider condenensor pipe area for better heat exchange.


As seen in the pics,newer units have all metal and sturdier construction as compatred to substantial plastic used in the older carrier unit.

Also visible more coil area for heat exchange.
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Old 4th June 2013, 23:33   #3134
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Originally Posted by sheetumanu View Post

Hey Roy,

Did you get a second one? I am contemplating to pick a cube AC based on your review. Can you throw some more light on the performance especially these days when the temp is hovering around 45~46 in NCR.
Yes indeed I picked up two cubes. Both of them are working very nicely. Chills down both rooms really fast even in the afternoon. There is a slight downside to be aware of - the sound level is a wee bit higher than a split or window ac. But it's well within acceptable levels.
The other thing to note is that the cubes need to be installed not exceeding a height of 5 ft (top level). Please make sure that your room can accommodate this.
I'm very satisfied. Good VFM Product.
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Old 5th June 2013, 20:33   #3135
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by roy_libran View Post
Yes indeed I picked up two cubes. Both of them are working very nicely. Chills down both rooms really fast even in the afternoon. There is a slight downside to be aware of - the sound level is a wee bit higher than a split or window ac. But it's well within acceptable levels.
The other thing to note is that the cubes need to be installed not exceeding a height of 5 ft (top level). Please make sure that your room can accommodate this.
I'm very satisfied. Good VFM Product.
Thank you for your feedback. Is it installed like a split AC? I have a rented accommodation so I was thinking of buying a Windows AC since it is easy to install and more importantly easy to uninstall when you move.
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