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Old 20th June 2015, 00:11   #4156
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
. I think we have to visit Rathna Fans, as they probably have the biggest selection in Chennai. More than the AC sections of the "White goods" chains.

One concern is getting the wanted features. I know many of these are just minor things inflated to try to make machines that all, essential, look very similar and do the same thing, look better than each other, but some are desirable, and some are a waste of money. I do not, for instance, want an AC that follows me around the room. Except for a few cool-down minutes here and there, I actively avoid direct-draught cooling. I like the feature that directs the air along the ceiling, giving "trickle-down" effect to whole room.
Thad: Try JD Electronics, he can give a good deal. Let me know if you need any help on the pricing part.
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Old 20th June 2015, 12:49   #4157
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Blue Star India rolls out updated vrf air conditioning systems with efforts from their R&D centre

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper...cle7334995.ece
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Old 21st June 2015, 11:35   #4158
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I had got My Hitachi AC serviced by the company in end March, but the cooling was way below normal. The fan throw was low and the cooling horrible, even though at the outlet the temperature was 15 degrees, the room would not cool below 33. Last year it was cooling down to 26 in the same conditions.

So I called my trusted AC mechanic and he diagnosed (as I had) that the coils were choked with dirt and that the "Company Service" had done an extremely shoddy job. He used a cleaning agent and here are the images - quite revealing.

Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2947.jpg
Note the choked coil at the hot end

Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2948.jpg
Choked coil at the front - cold side

Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2951.jpg
Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2952.jpg
The chemical used to flush the dirt

Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2953.jpg
Foam starting to form. The chemical generates foam and brings the dirt out with it

Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2957.jpg
Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2958.jpg
Foam and dirt

Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2962.jpg
Rinsing

Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?-gsc_2965.jpg
Water, foam and the dirt

The reason I am putting the images is that I have experienced a lack of professionalism from the company technicians (and at times propensity to changing parts for no reason), especially AC technicians. Considering that they charge 750/ per window AC; while the local guys charge only 300, and in some places 250/; it is a big scam.
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Old 21st June 2015, 11:55   #4159
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So I called my trusted AC mechanic and he diagnosed (as I had) that the coils were choked with dirt and that the "Company Service" had done an extremely shoddy job.

What did the foam wash cost you? I got mine done by the company and was scammed by the daikin guy who came over. He reduced the flow of gas so the cooling would go down and then I called him he told me I would have to fill gas. He offered to do it privately and under a sham of filling he just opened up the valve and pretended to refill and cooling was back to normal. Boy do I hate these fraudsters!!
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Old 21st June 2015, 12:05   #4160
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
What did the foam wash cost you? I got mine done by the company and was scammed by the daikin guy who came over. He reduced the flow of gas so the cooling would go down and then I called him he told me I would have to fill gas. He offered to do it privately and under a sham of filling he just opened up the valve and pretended to refill and cooling was back to normal. Boy do I hate these fraudsters!!
The chemical has a list price of RS.200 and the guy charged me that, but I guess if you buy it would be much less.

The "Gas is low" is a regular scam, so beware of it. One precaution you can take is to run the AC in front of the technician and let him note that every thing is normal. Once the servicing is done, it the AC is not upto standard, tell him to fix it "free of cost" as it was fine before he touched it. In most cases he will sheepishly rectify it. In a few hard cases he may be adamant, in that case refuse to pay him till you have checked the AC with another person. That mostly gets your job done.

In my experience, as most of us users are not vigilant enough we take what ever the repair person dishes out to us. If we challenge them in their diagnosis and prove that they did some mischief, they normally toe the line.

Here are signs of Low Gas
. The cooling will be lower than usual, even though the exit temperature will be fine
. In most cases one corner of the Evaporator (the heat exchanger on the cold side) will start icing. Note that the icing would be partial. In case the whole area is iced, it indiactes either excess gas or too low an air flow.
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Old 29th June 2015, 11:53   #4161
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Hi Experts,

I am planning to buy a 1.5 Ton inverter AC for my room and considering following models:

a. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-XP18PHT
b. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-X18PET
c. Hitachi Kashikoi 200i
d. Trane TSI18DS

I have couple of questions which will help me take a decision and would request the experts to share your opinion:

1. What is the difference between AH-XP18PHT and AH-X18PET? Is it only Plasma filter or something else as well ?
2. How is Hitachi's Kashikoi Inverter model from performance and quality perspective (leaving aside the pricing)
3. Does anybody has experience with Trane AC? I have heard its a very good machine but not marketed much in India.
4. I am getting following prices for these models (only AC price):
a. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-XP18PHT - 45K
b. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-X18PET - 41K
c. Hitachi Kashikoi 200i - 49K
d. Trane TSI18DS - 45K

I intend to keep AC for 8-10 years so I am fine spending couple of thousands extra if I am getting better quality and durability (copper vs aluminum debate).

Please advise which one makes more sense to buy?

Thanks!
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Old 29th June 2015, 13:14   #4162
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by helloemperor View Post
Hi Experts,

I am planning to buy a 1.5 Ton inverter AC for my room and considering following models:

a. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-XP18PHT
b. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-X18PET
c. Hitachi Kashikoi 200i
d. Trane TSI18DS

I have couple of questions which will help me take a decision and would request the experts to share your opinion:

1. What is the difference between AH-XP18PHT and AH-X18PET? Is it only Plasma filter or something else as well ?
2. How is Hitachi's Kashikoi Inverter model from performance and quality perspective (leaving aside the pricing)
3. Does anybody has experience with Trane AC? I have heard its a very good machine but not marketed much in India.
4. I am getting following prices for these models (only AC price):
a. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-XP18PHT - 45K
b. Sharp 1.5 Ton AH-X18PET - 41K
c. Hitachi Kashikoi 200i - 49K
d. Trane TSI18DS - 45K

I intend to keep AC for 8-10 years so I am fine spending couple of thousands extra if I am getting better quality and durability (copper vs aluminum debate).

Please advise which one makes more sense to buy?

Thanks!
Is there some reason for Daikin being omitted? They have excellent 5* splits.

Trane is a major Industrial supplier, so their products should be excellent. The only hitch is their after sales service network, which is an unknown factor.

One thing I have learned is that with electricity prices going up every quarter, the more efficient AC you buy, the more you will save. Currently my electricity bill states that the highest slab is nearly Rs.9/unit. Five years ago it was Rs4.25/unit and 15 years ago Rs3. So before purchasing, peruse and analyse the specifications, especially the power consumption, both at full load and at partial load.
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Old 30th June 2015, 13:59   #4163
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

AC Horror story

Hi, I had earlier sought advice on buying a window AC (page 265-267) and could not figure out which one would be the best to buy. Normally under such circumstances, I go for a mundane brand (as in case of my Philips TV (CRT in 2006), Samsung AC, LG washing machine etc. But this time, I decided to go for premium brand. Short-listing Hitachi, Carrier, Panasonic, I chose Carrier, found good offer at Croma store opposite my house and ordered. It was installed the next day about 6-7 weeks ago.

Cooling of the AC was Ok-to-good but within a few days we noticed that vibrations/ reverberations from the AC, window and wall were loud and there used to be a loud hiss whenever compressor would go off. We called up Carrier guys but they did not attend the complaint for a few days. Thereafter, I visited Croma store wherein they told me to call Croma always for such issues as they will follow up with brands and he took my complaint. Soon after, an AC Engineer visited us on behalf of Croma. He told us that such vibrations were common with Carrier and that the hissing noise was the gas return noise i.e. the gas returns to compressor every time compressor goes off and this noise is normal for a Carrier AC. Our other AC from Samsung (2005 model) was of installed at that time as we had moved into this house a few months ago. I told him that I never heard such a noise from Samsung to which he said he can't comment on other ACs. I asked him about a few features of the AC (I had read the entire manual before that) and he was unable to explain all the features. So, I sent him back suggesting to send somebody more competitive. Croma guys followed up the next day (they do it typically in 2-3 days) and assured to send somebody better. The next guy came a few days later and shared the same feedback. By this time, I had visited a neighbour who had a new LG AC installed and I learnt 2 things from there. One, the AC was installed with wooden frame on all 4 sides and so it gave minimal vibrations. Secondly, the AC return noise was present there too but it was very low and could be heard only when you noticed carefully. However, the AC guy refused to visit the other house and said he accepts that this noise was higher than acceptable limits. (Pardon my mistake but this was 3rd visit from a mechanic and my wife attended one of them so I do not remember much details). I had also taken the local regional brand service co-ordinator Mr Gursukhmeet of Croma (who had called me a few days back and joined the process) on call with some service head of Carrier who said that he shall arrange to reinstall the AC with window on all 4 sides and try to get a replacement of the AC too. I was too frustrated with the quality of the service people attending who were all from outsourced agencies and were either uneducated or were BBA but none a polytechnic, forget engineers, and so I told Croma guy to arrange a return and allow me to buy another brand. He sought some time and called me within 15-20 minutes to confirm that it shall be done.

So, I visited Croma store twice in next 7 days (gone for a vacation, and weekdays didn't permit me to go there in day time) and ordered the most premium Window AC i.e. Hitachi Quadricool TM. I was aware of service issues discussed on forum and mentioned it to Croma wherein they assured me of standing beside me for any such issues (and they have done so very much, I like them). Friends at office told me that ACs are good and had reco from earlier friends and family too.So, ordered one, paid the difference and delivery next day. Ensured that Window was bordered on all 4 sides and the AC started in super silent mode and I loved it. Lets call it H1, you will soon see why.

However, the same night, wife complained of low cooling. I ignored the warning for a few days but realised soon enough that the room would never cool enough even in the nights. Also felt bad about having to tell Croma that I DON'T EVEN LIKE A HITACHI NOW! But did so nonetheless after 7 days of purchase. Around the same time, I got my Samsung AC installed from a local mechanic. I asked him to check the Hitachi's cooling too which he said was reasonable but then he opened the front filter grill and noticed that the fins at front were not getting cooled evenly. I touched and saw that only some portions of the grill were cool and other were not. Checked with the samsung and it had all the fins cold and chill!!

Technician of Hitachi came (again outsourced, and I was told by Croma that all AC companies have outsourced their services). He checked and told my wife (I was not home) that temperature gauge was faulty and they shall have to replace it which they shall do the next day. This also involved changing the whole instrument cluster. I told him and Croma that I shall not take a replacement of part, fought with them (Sanjay Singh from Hitachi -some regional service leader/manager and Gursukhmeet from Croma (he was on my side)) and they assured of a new AC -lets call it H2. The fins cooling issue did not even surface!

Replacement came in after 2-3 days and was installed in my absence. When I reached home, I found that it made lot of clankering noise and there were scratches on the grill in many places. Even the black strip having the display was scratchy in many places). I felt that they have given me a refurbished piece. My wife had mentioned the noise to installation guy who'd said it was perhaps due to loosening of some part during transport and as they were not carrying their spanners/tools they shall come back next day and rectify it. This was too much to take for me. I called the installation guy and took him to task when he reiterated the excuse of it getting loosened up during transport. So he asked me to call up the company. I called Croma guy and told him. He assured me of a response next day. Another guy came, took notes, refused to tell anything to my wife. When scolded over phone and Croma guy taken over call, I was told that he came to take report of our allegations and had written in his report that what we said was true.

H3 promised and delivered in 4 days. yesterday evening. I left office just when they cam so as to reach home in time. As AC was installed, my wife asked the guy to remove the grill and show us the fins' cooling. It was uneven. Wife spoke to Sanjay, the service incharge who said that it takes about half an hour for the entire fins to cool along with the room. I reached home by the time this half-hour passed. Fins were in same state. Cooling coils behind were all cool but with varying degree. Central coils were the coolest, The ones on top were about 30% cooled compared to central ones, and the ones below were about 10%. Technician said it will cool in some time. I turned on the Samsung AC in the other room and within 5 minutes (Accounting for compressor start in 2-3 minutes), all the fins were super cold. Croma and Sanjay ji were taken on call. Sanjay ji kept his cool and told me that since they could not satisfy me with 3 brand new ACs, he will get my money refunded!! I prodded him for an explanation for the uneven cooling to which he chose not to respond and simply said that he does not want to waste his and my time any more and shall process a refund! H2 was reinstalled for the interim convenience and H3 was taken back.

I took pictures of the carton of H3 and another one at home which was of H1. They had nearby serial nos ending in xxx300 and xxx338 (do not remember xxx values, can provide should someone wants), both manufactured in May 2015. Wife tells me the 2nd AC had June 2015 as mfg date, which I anyways believe was a refurbished one and an attempt to fool me.

Spoke back to Croma guy after the H3 was gone. I told him that I did not ike that behaviour from Hitachi guy which he agreed to and said he will take up both product and service issues in their regular meetings with Hitachi guys. I also told him that this Coil/Fins cooling issue could be a batch fault (like Toyotas of the world recall their cars for a component replacement) as in all 3 ACs belonged to same time-period with near identical serial numbers which he took as a feedback and decided to take up with Hitachi.

I am not set to buy a LG 3/5 star AC next week. Would like to know reactions/advise on the episode.
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Old 30th June 2015, 18:59   #4164
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by helloemperor View Post

1. What is the difference between AH-XP18PHT and AH-X18PET? Is it only Plasma filter or something else as well ?
PHT has Plasmaclustor ion generator and some additional swing modes. Other features are similar between PET & PHT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helloemperor View Post
2. How is Hitachi's Kashikoi Inverter model from performance and quality perspective (leaving aside the pricing)
Kashikoi's can handle 52c, sharp can handle 48c. However Sharp has better power efficiency [Min power consumption: 320w vs 440w, Min cooling supported by compressor BTU/hr: 5463 vs 6310],

My FIL has a 5* Hitachi, it is definitely more quieter than Sharp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by helloemperor View Post
I intend to keep AC for 8-10 years so I am fine spending couple of thousands extra if I am getting better quality and durability (copper vs aluminum debate).
Thanks!
I have two Sharp 1.5 inverters (MVs, imported from Thailand) for 3 years and happy with their performance. Recently purchased a 1.1 PHT (made in India) and will be installing it over the weekend, will post a detailed comparison.
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Old 30th June 2015, 20:49   #4165
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.....
.....
I am not set to buy a LG 3/5 star AC next week. Would like to know reactions/advise on the episode.
I presume you mean "I am now set to buy a LG 3/5* AC next week. ..."
I would heartily agree.
I just bought a one ton split (LG-LSA3NP5A 5*) and am happy with it thus far. It's only been a week.
But I do have two more LG ACs (a two ton split and a 1.6 ton window unit) that have been serving me well for nine years are are currently doing duty for the tenth year!
This, in my opinion, is far far better than all the so-called premium brands and the problems I have read at this thread about them!

I do have a Hitachi window AC that is from another era - doing 17th year service this summer! No parts replacement, no mishaps, just old fashioned, honest technology.
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Old 1st July 2015, 08:49   #4166
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

My Daikin 2T Inverter, R410a etc, stopped working night before last. It was installed in 2012 December. When I checked yesterday morning, I found the outside unit not coming on. Yesterday evening the Daikin expert of Saraf Cooling came, and he found the fan not working, but did observe the compressor coming on. Coming downstairs he confirmed that the error code was E7. So I am hoping for a fan motor replacement, today if they have it in stock. Apparently these days motor failures are far more common than they used to be in the days of robust AC motors.
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Old 1st July 2015, 14:23   #4167
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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I presume you mean "I am now set to buy a LG 3/5* AC next week. ..."
I would heartily agree.

This, in my opinion, is far far better than all the so-called premium brands and the problems I have read at this thread about them!

I do have a Hitachi window AC that is from another era - doing 17th year service this summer! No parts replacement, no mishaps, just old fashioned, honest technology.
Thanks. Yes, I meant 'now' but realised it too late -when Edit option was gone!

Some Voltas with friends are also doing great and some members here have already praised both the brands earlier too.

Guess what, my 'kaal' seems to be the culprit here. Ordered a Xiaomi 4 on Flipkart and it started rebooting on its own and hanging no sooner than it was started. Received yesterday, ordered replacement today. Perhaps I'd hold on before buying a new product. 4 ACs and 1 Xiaomi is just too much to hold against manufacturers!

Do let me know anytime you are selling that Hitachi

Last edited by modisan : 1st July 2015 at 14:40. Reason: adding content
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Old 1st July 2015, 17:38   #4168
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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...
Do let me know anytime you are selling that Hitachi
Sorry, I made a mistake there; that is a National (with front panel knobs, no remote).
The Hitachi is doing fifteenth year service this year, and it does have remote control. But maybe you wouldn't want it now, considering how new it is!
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Old 2nd July 2015, 11:51   #4169
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
My Daikin 2T Inverter, R410a etc, stopped working night before last. It was installed in 2012 December. When I checked yesterday morning, I found the outside unit not coming on. Yesterday evening the Daikin expert of Saraf Cooling came, and he found the fan not working, but did observe the compressor coming on. Coming downstairs he confirmed that the error code was E7. So I am hoping for a fan motor replacement, today if they have it in stock. Apparently these days motor failures are far more common than they used to be in the days of robust AC motors.
Yesterday, they sent a couple of guys to retrieve the motor. Apparently there are three different motors used in the same model! Let us hope for action today.
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Old 3rd July 2015, 06:36   #4170
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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
.... Apparently there are three different motors used in the same model! Let us hope for action today.
This, again, speaks poorly of their documentation process at the manufacturing plant. Any self respecting company would have full documentation regarding what component variant was fitted to which serial number machine.

Also, is this motor covered in the five year warranty or is it only the compressor? What does this fan motor cost?
These motors are probably speed controlled motors in an inverter AC. I wouldn't even begin to compare these to the old fashioned induction motors that lasted a lifetime.
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