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Old 3rd July 2015, 12:34   #4171
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
My Daikin 2T Inverter, R410a etc, stopped working night before last. It was installed in 2012 December. When I checked yesterday morning, I found the outside unit not coming on. Yesterday evening the Daikin expert of Saraf Cooling came, and he found the fan not working, but did observe the compressor coming on. Coming downstairs he confirmed that the error code was E7. So I am hoping for a fan motor replacement, today if they have it in stock. Apparently these days motor failures are far more common than they used to be in the days of robust AC motors.
Yes even I noticed that, when I asked my mechanic to check the fan motor in my Hitachi. It seems that the older motors were regular motors whose speed was controlled bu tapping the appropriate coil. These had no electronics and were quite rugged in construction. The modern fans are usually DC motors sourced from China. They are not only fragile, but can to be repaired.

As most of the AC and Refrigerators have a lot of electronics, and as the electronics are susceptible to voltage fluctuation (they are designed for regions of stable power supply?), it is best to have a voltage stabiliser with a high voltage cut off. Note that in most of the cases the service personnel always invoke "Voltage Fluctuation" if an expensive electronic component malfunctions, and refuse to replace it free.
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Old 13th July 2015, 14:34   #4172
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Pleasant Surprise: Today got a call from Sharp (Via Premium Cooling, who did the installation also) for the first free service. They came home about half an hour back and cleaned the indoor unit and outdoor unit, washed the filter and did general check up.

--Anoop
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Old 16th July 2015, 22:30   #4173
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
It all depends on
. Reduction in electricity consumption/hr = E
. No of hours used per season = H
. Cost of electricity = R

Now in our case
E = 0.5KW (between Hitachi 3* and Daikin Inverter)
H = 15 x 30 x 6 (Hours, days, months) = 2700
R = 7.25

So saving is 9787.5 ~ Rs.9,800/ per season
The cost differential is 45-25=20K, so we break even in about 2 years.

Now the point is that the rates of electricity are rising monotonically. I have data from 2002. The unit rate has increase from Rs. 3.38/unit in 2002 to Rs.7.78 in 2014 (Divide the units billed by total demand - includes all taxes and subsidies). So you can expect the rates to double in another 10-12 years (if not sooner), and that reduces the break even time to a year.

If you have to run the AC's on generator, then
. At Rs.20/unit you break even in a year
. With lower EER you need less generator capacity.

So on the whole Inverter AC make a lot of sense in long term.
How did you get the figure for Daikin electricity consumption? Daikin's latest inverter ac (5 star equivalent) states power consumption as 1465 watts. My 1.5 ton Croma 3 star consumes 1570 watts. That means only about 100 watts extra per hour and one extra unit per 10 hours. In reality, it would be one extra unit per around 20 hours of use as the compressor would cut out for part of the time. Hence the difference between these two machines is just Rs 2-3 per day if used heavily. That is why I didn't spend the extra 5-6 thousand for getting a 5 star ac.
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Old 16th July 2015, 23:31   #4174
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

My indoor unit has been dripping water for the last few days. What can be the reason?

Drain pipe is working fine. NCR weather for the last few days is just warm because of frequent rain. We still put on the AC because it is not comfortable without it. Temperature typically set between 24 and 27 C. It's a Daikin unit, about 5 years old, serviced every year, but not yet this year.
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Old 16th July 2015, 23:56   #4175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
My indoor unit has been dripping water for the last few days. What can be the reason?

Drain pipe is working fine. NCR weather for the last few days is just warm because of frequent rain. We still put on the AC because it is not comfortable without it. Temperature typically set between 24 and 27 C. It's a Daikin unit, about 5 years old, serviced every year, but not yet this year.
Had a similar issue on a newly installed Daikin, but the leak turned constant. The drain line had popped out because the gardener kept twisting it during repotting at the flower bed.

Here's what you can do ~ pop the front flap up and you will have 2-3 screws on the panel just below the filters, unscrew them and you should be able to lift from the bottom corners and pull the cover up and off the unit. You will then see the drain tray at the bottom of the coil. Pour some water and check if it comes out only the regular way outside. Else use a Vacuum to suck out the dirt.

There's a fairly clear DIY YouTube video showing how this is done on a Daikin. Else the local service guy can clean too. According to the service engineer indoor drip is usually a blocked drain pipe or drip joint weakening. Rarely caused by excess humidity.
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Old 17th July 2015, 10:21   #4176
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Lobogris View Post
How did you get the figure for Daikin electricity consumption? Daikin's latest inverter ac (5 star equivalent) states power consumption as 1465 watts. My 1.5 ton Croma 3 star consumes 1570 watts. That means only about 100 watts extra per hour and one extra unit per 10 hours. In reality, it would be one extra unit per around 20 hours of use as the compressor would cut out for part of the time. Hence the difference between these two machines is just Rs 2-3 per day if used heavily. That is why I didn't spend the extra 5-6 thousand for getting a 5 star ac.
I would check the 3* AC consumption with a meter, as a 3* 1.5T AC normally consumes upwards of 1800W, which includes around 150W for the fan.

Our Hitachi 3* consumes 1800W, Daikin Inverter averages 1200W in peak summer and 800W during rains. The Hitachi stays on 80% of the time in peak summer and 50% during rains. This I have confirmed by noting the values from our power meter.

What you must factor in is the fan's consumption which is about 100W, and it always stays on.

Last edited by Aroy : 17th July 2015 at 10:25.
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Old 18th July 2015, 07:05   #4177
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
....
Our Hitachi 3* consumes 1800W, Daikin Inverter averages 1200W in peak summer and 800W during rains. The Hitachi stays on 80% of the time in peak summer and 50% during rains. This I have confirmed by noting the values from our power meter.
.....
I cannot quite understand how you have arrived at these numbers.
What 'meter' did you use?
Short of installing an energy meter there is no way to measure what the exact consumption of an AC is over any length of time. It varies all the time, depending on the ambient conditions.
I have, with a clamp meter, measured the current drawn at 4 amps at times, for my old no-star National window unit! We're looking at consumption of under a 1000 watts! But does it stay that way all the time that it's running? Of course not.
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Old 18th July 2015, 07:53   #4178
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
I would check the 3* AC consumption with a meter, as a 3* 1.5T AC normally consumes upwards of 1800W, which includes around 150W for the fan.

Our Hitachi 3* consumes 1800W, Daikin Inverter averages 1200W in peak summer and 800W during rains. The Hitachi stays on 80% of the time in peak summer and 50% during rains. This I have confirmed by noting the values from our power meter.

What you must factor in is the fan's consumption which is about 100W, and it always stays on.
I checked on my Croma 3 star again. The power consumption for the entire unit is listed at 1710 watts. Even if we take this figure and use it against Daikin's approx 1500 watts consumption, we get a difference of 200 watts per hour. Here again we can assume 100 watts per running hour as the compressor would cut out. If we run these acs 10 hours a day, the difference is one unit of power which is around 6 Rs per day. We would save about Rs 200 per month at the most. My compressor runs even less than this as I set my ac to 30 C.

Coming to your figure of 1200 peak summer and 800 in rains, even if we take an average of 1000, this means that 1000 watts are consumed every hour as the inverter ac doesn't turn off the compressor. With my Croma 3 star, the consumption is 1710 when the compressor in running but if we assume even 40% compressor off,we get nearly the same power consumption. I do like inverter acs for conmfort but I don't think they save enough power to make economic sense. The same applies to 5 star acs when the difference between 5 and 3 stars is more than 3k.
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Old 18th July 2015, 09:16   #4179
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I bought a sharp window AC which is their sole window model and is 2/3 star with consumption of 1645w. Anyone experienced with it? I think their splits esp with inverters are great. It's due to be delivered on Monday (am not home till then).

Another thing I'd want to know is that on 2 out of my 3 Hitachi ACs returned, the front fin face (which we access after removing grille n filter) doesn't get cooled evenly. Central one-third part is very cold, upper one substantially less and least almost room temp. Could it be a right thing? My Samsung AC shows a 95% even cooling. Can a whole batch of Hitachi ACs be problematic? This Hitachi AC shall be taken back by them on Monday with a refund

Would also like to mention Croma store's exceptional customer service on having arranged return if the 4 ACs as mentioned earlier.

Last edited by modisan : 18th July 2015 at 09:18.
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Old 29th July 2015, 12:56   #4180
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

The Daikin split 1.5 inverter that I have in our shop has stopped cooling. The Daikin guys visited and said that there was, wait for it, gas leak!

I had taken the technician's number last time who had serviced the AC and he seemed like a very sincere guy. Now I called him up directly and asked him what would be charges for a refill to which he said that the AC uses a R32 type gas so I should inquire from the market as to what the charges would be since he will also be purchasing this particular gas.

Two questions:

1) Any idea what's the refill charge for R32 for 1.5 ton split machine.

2) Is there a way to determine whether the gas that has been filled is optimum and the service guy hasn't under-filled the gas during refill process?
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Old 29th July 2015, 21:54   #4181
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The Daikin split 1.5 inverter that I have in our shop has stopped cooling. The Daikin guys visited and said that there was, wait for it, gas leak!
....
2) Is there a way to determine whether the gas that has been filled is optimum and the service guy hasn't under-filled the gas during refill process?
Vikram, I am simply appalled at the number of problems I am seeing reported here with Daikin ACs!
I had a very high opinion about this company because my experience with their package units was entirely the marine grade equipment widely used on ships.

There is a way to know the exact charge. The unit must be vacuumed and then only a measured quantity of gas should be charged into it. This also entails charging the correct quantity of refrigerant oil into the system and is a procedure that most service technicians will be loathe to do or will simply not be equipped to do!

Why not stick to the tried and tested LG ACs? They cost less and perform far better than these high end Daikins or Hitachis! I think India is being taken up the garden path by these so called premium AC manufacturers.
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Old 30th July 2015, 10:45   #4182
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Vikram, I am simply appalled at the number of problems I am seeing reported here with Daikin ACs!
I had a very high opinion about this company because my experience with their package units was entirely the marine grade equipment widely used on ships.

There is a way to know the exact charge. The unit must be vacuumed and then only a measured quantity of gas should be charged into it. This also entails charging the correct quantity of refrigerant oil into the system and is a procedure that most service technicians will be loathe to do or will simply not be equipped to do!

Why not stick to the tried and tested LG ACs? They cost less and perform far better than these high end Daikins or Hitachis! I think India is being taken up the garden path by these so called premium AC manufacturers.
Even I am slowly veering to LG or other manufacturers for simple split AC. They are cheaper, have less rigid installation conditions and last equally long.

For larger units, say 6 tons or more, I still think that Daikin VRF is a better option. The VRF units are maintained by separate group (Industrial Refrigeration), who know their job and are generally much better than the consumer guys.
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Old 30th July 2015, 13:26   #4183
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
...
For larger units, say 6 tons or more, I still think that Daikin VRF is a better option. ....
Even for a six tons requirement I would opt for 2X3 tons rather than one six tons unit.
I am a firm believer in redundancy even if it costs more. If the six tons VRF conks out your entire home/office would be like an oven.
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Old 31st July 2015, 18:06   #4184
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Vikram, I am simply appalled at the number of problems I am seeing reported here with Daikin ACs!
I had a very high opinion about this company because my experience with their package units was entirely the marine grade equipment widely used on ships.
Anup ji, I'm a little alarmed myself. I mean I ensured that the outdoor unit was covered during winters, got the wet service done on time and ensured that filters were cleaned every 2 weeks. And just as the one year warranty period is over I have gas leakage!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
There is a way to know the exact charge. The unit must be vacuumed and then only a measured quantity of gas should be charged into it. This also entails charging the correct quantity of refrigerant oil into the system and is a procedure that most service technicians will be loathe to do or will simply not be equipped to do!
I doubt if any technician would ever do this! I guess I'll have to rely on the technician only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Why not stick to the tried and tested LG ACs? They cost less and perform far better than these high end Daikins or Hitachis! I think India is being taken up the garden path by these so called premium AC manufacturers.
When I paid the kind of premium I did for this Daikin Inverter AC, I thought I was paying it for the robust quality and peace of mind. I had no clue I'd encounter issues in the second year itself.

But then, these are all machines and I've had a very bad experience with Samsung also in the past. Not to mention that the window Hitachi at my home also keeps on troubling me every now and then. Nonetheless, I'm better informed now.

Oh and by the way I had persuaded my parents in Mumbai to order the same 1.5 inverter unit for them. I'll ask them to be over-cautious with servicing intervals and routine maintenance.
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Old 8th August 2015, 02:09   #4185
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Have been getting a buzzing/vibration noise with my Sharp split AC. It was there at the last service, but now it has got worse. I'm concerned that this get fixed as the unit will be a year old next month. The sound only comes when the internal-unit fan is at its lowest speed.

Was reported yesterday morning, service promised today, but did not happen. Previously satisfied with Sharp service here in Chennai; this is a black mark.
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