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Old 19th April 2016, 20:35   #4576
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Ponmayilal View Post
....
They have a name to keep and so I believe their service backup should be good - if and when required.
....
This is not necessarily true. There is a world of difference between serving a domestic/households market and being a supplier to large commercial establishments and industries. Industrial installations are invariable maintained by well trained technicians of the concerned organizations and Trane would only provide backup in terms of spares etc., whereas the domestic market requires a trained (or should that be Traned? ) Trane technician to attend to faults. Many well respected names have shown a singular failure in setting up an effective service network, the prime example being Daikin!
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Old 19th April 2016, 20:53   #4577
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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....The gadgetry of the remote is going to appeal to a lot of gadgetphiles: I gather there are phone apps too. It works by wifi, right? Then, would it work in a house without a wifi router? .....
I missed your query.

No, it does not require WiFi. The networking feature is built into the ACs, remotes and door locks. The user manual gives the detailed procedure for networking the system. I have only one AC and remote and the installer set up the connectivity between the AC and the remote. I wasn't even aware of it till the installer asked me what name he should give for that AC. I was able to read the user manual only after he handed over the Flash Drive that came with the remote to me at the fag end. Here is a 2013 NDTV Review.

Review of Trane Interactive ACs & Locks by NDTV Gadget Guru

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Old 19th April 2016, 22:50   #4578
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Ah, ok... American origin.

Hate the website, mostly becuause of that horrible floating chat window, which I just cannot seem to zap with ABP Element Hider. No Trane, I do not want to chat... if that changes I'll let you know!

Oh ok: apart from that, its ok.
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Old 20th April 2016, 00:11   #4579
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Ponmayilal View Post
They have some notable Trane buildings around the world.
Australian Stock Exchange, Melbourne
The Kremlin, Moscow, Russia
La Scala Opera House, Milan, Italy
McCormick Place Convention Center in Chicago
The Olympic Sports Complex in Athens, Greece
SeaWorld, Orlando, Florida
The SkyDome (Rogers Centre) in Toronto, Canada
Like Anup had pointed out there is a world of difference between serving home segment and commercial segments. Product is also very different. In the buildings quoted above Trane would have supplied the chillers, in terms of many numbers of ~1000 ton capacity chillers (just to give an idea of the scale). The Trane equipment supplies chilled water to the air conditioning system, which has been designed by an air conditioning consultant / engineer. Piping, ducting, air handling unit, etc would be installed by the contractor using various material sources. Maintenance would be done by in house full time engineers. So Trane is just a cog in the wheel, a big one though.

In the home segment Trane has to provide end to end solution. Servicing and maintenance would also be much more labour intensive.

Sure they have a reputation to keep. Whether they can service home segment the same way they had serviced commercial segment remains to be seen. Apparently India is a very demanding market in terms of after sales servicing for any electronic / electrical / mechanical equipment brand.
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Old 20th April 2016, 17:26   #4580
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Placed order for following 4 units of ACs with no-nonsense Blue Star. (2 more units are still pending to order as the furnishing work is going on in my flat.)

1 No. 0.8 Ton 3-Star V series - Rs. 21,777+VAT=24,500

1 No. 1 Ton Ton 3-Star V series - Rs. 24,711+VAT=27,800

2 No.s 1 Ton Inverter AC's - Rs. 29,333+VAT=33,000

Earlier plan was to avoid Inverter ACs for higher probability of failure (PCB in ODU etc) and go for 5 star. But then the comfort factor of uniform temperature became overpowering and plunged into it then.

The order was placed for Inverter C series but they are delivering a newer N series at the same price.

These will be installed tomorrow.

Next week, will place order for 2 no.s 1.5 Ton V series AC's for a open Drawing, Living, Dining room & kitchen (almost 400 sq ft)

Chosen Blue Star as No-nonsense brand basis quite a few recommendations that their ACs are as rugged as the top tier brands, just that they don't market it well in residential market. Also quite a few adverse reviews here about service of big names like Diakin, Hitachi etc don't augur well for hefty premium they demand, the premium could turn out for "perceived" lesser noise level / superior product though I've no experience of any of these brands. Heard and believed that most of all the ACs are equally good in their prime functions, & features are more of gimmick than useful (few could be useful) - though I've gone for the Blue Star models with the most features in their range but am not swayed by it. Hope, it serves well in what they are expected to do with a good service back up & ready parts availability. Touchwood.

Last edited by TheIndian : 20th April 2016 at 17:42. Reason: addition
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Old 20th April 2016, 17:29   #4581
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

In consideration of the data below, for a normal closed bedroom of 150 Sqft, how much would one expect the inverter ac to slow down if we set at around 25-26 for the night with an average ambient change from 33 to 26.

Daikin working range:
for FTKP50QRV16:
BTU : 8500-17100-19400
Power : 710 W to 1750 W

for FTKM50QRV16:
BTU : 3400-17100-20500
Power : 370 W to 1700 W

Mitshubishi MYS-GK18VA:
yet to find data.

General ASGA18JCC 1.5TR Inverter:
BTU : 3100-17742-20500
TR variance : 0.26 to 1.71


Hitatchi RAU518CWEA (5300i)
Values at 50%-100%-Max rating
BTU : 2800-17999-20814
Power consumption (W): 540-1490-1800

Trying to conserve power but will the ac really need to go down to that low level or it is just a case of available range of the ac? Please share your experiences on the level of inverter ac slowdown over a period of 6 hours, specific to a bedroom installation.

Choices are narrowing down to :
Mutsubishi (cost approximately 59k)
General (cost approximately 61k) (service delay possibility)
Daikin (cost approximately 52.5k)
Hitatchi (cost approximately 59k) (Noise and service are the spoilers here.)

Thanks a lot.
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Old 20th April 2016, 17:39   #4582
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by optimist View Post
Choices are narrowing down to :
Mutsubishi (cost approximately 59k)
General (cost approximately 61k) (service delay possibility)
Daikin (cost approximately 52.5k)
Hitatchi (cost approximately 59k) (Noise and service are the spoilers here.)

Thanks a lot.
Why is the Daikin FTKP50 so expensive? I recently got the new Eco-inverter series FTKH50 for ~43K including VAT.
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Old 20th April 2016, 17:45   #4583
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
This is not necessarily true. ..... Many well respected names have shown a singular failure in setting up an effective service network, the prime example being Daikin!....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Like Anup had pointed out there is a world of difference between serving home segment and commercial segments.....
.....In the home segment Trane has to provide end to end solution. Servicing and maintenance would also be much more labour intensive

Sure they have a reputation to keep. Whether they can service home segment the same way they had serviced commercial segment remains to be seen. Apparently India is a very demanding market in terms of after sales servicing for any electronic / electrical / mechanical equipment brand.
Agreed.

But consider this. Though Trane has a 100 year+ history, their entry into the home segment ACs in India is just about three years. As on date we don't have any information or user experiences on the Service and Support front. Should this stop anyone buying a Trane ? Should that anyone wait till he gets some real incidents of Service and Support?

I have read about thirteen reviews in Mouthshut on Trane 1.5 Ton ACs starting from Jun 2013. (The only user reviews that can be found.) Only two have one star rating. One on Performance deficiency and one on Service deficiency. This can happen with any brand. Rest 11 had four and five star rating. This was of course about performance and features. http://www.mouthshut.com/air-conditi...iews-925669249

Taking all this into consideration, we stuck to Trane and got it. Well, only time can tell whether we have made a smart choice.

Last edited by Ponmayilal : 20th April 2016 at 17:49.
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Old 20th April 2016, 18:05   #4584
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Edit timeout on my previous post.

Here is where my evaluation table is. Its a consolidation of data from various catalogues for reference.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Hope someone finds it useful. Will try to keep it updated for this summer.


Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Why is the Daikin FTKP50 so expensive? I recently got the new Eco-inverter series FTKH50 for ~43K including VAT.
The inverter quality and feature set are in this series order M>P>H

Last edited by optimist : 20th April 2016 at 18:08.
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Old 20th April 2016, 18:42   #4585
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by optimist View Post
In consideration of the data below, for a normal closed bedroom of 150 Sqft, how much would one expect the inverter ac to slow down if we set at around 25-26 for the night with an average ambient change from 33 to 26.

...

Trying to conserve power but will the ac really need to go down to that low level or it is just a case of available range of the ac? Please share your experiences on the level of inverter ac slowdown over a period of 6 hours, specific to a bedroom installation.
Btu/h load (not Btu as wrongly written everywhere) is a lot like driving a car.
You want to drive at 60 kmph? You may be surprised to know even 5-10 bhp will suffice.

But you want to GET to 60 kmph in xx seconds? You will need considerably more.


Similarly in case of AC's say non inverter types 1.5 Ton. (all number fictional)
What happens when ambient is at 35 deg C, and you key in 25 deg C?
The compressor runs continuously for 30-60 minutes to bring the temp down to 25 deg C. Thereafter it switches on for 10 minutes once every 1/2 hour.

Effectively you need 1.5 Ton cooling power (= 18000 Btu/h)
- to bring the temperature down from 35 to 25 deg C.
But you require only 1.5/3 = 0.5 Ton (= 6000 Btu/h) [because the compressor runs only 10 minutes in 30 minutes duration]
- to maintain the temperature of 25 deg C.

What are the heat sources that an AC needs to combat?
1) already warm air and walls present in the room
2) leaked in warm air from outside
3) solar radiation
4) people and heat generating equipment (anything electrical/electronic)

(1) is taken care by the initial run (though not completely since the wall take hours to cool down)
(2) is taken care by proper sealing
(3) is taken care by the night time
(4) is what your AC has to work for continuously. 1 person = 350 Btu/h = (1/40 ton). (approx 100 Watt). You can add whatever electrical equipment you have based on wattage equivalent.

Surprised by the figure?
Actually the warm walls ruin the fun, hence your AC requires a slightly higher tonnage/longer compressor run.

Last edited by alpha1 : 20th April 2016 at 18:43.
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Old 20th April 2016, 18:47   #4586
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Ponmayilal View Post
Agreed.

But consider this. Though Trane has a 100 year+ history, their entry into the home segment ACs in India is just about three years. As on date we don't have any information or user experiences on the Service and Support front. Should this stop anyone buying a Trane ? .....
It would be a personal decision whether or not to buy a Trane home AC. Those that do, are, in my opinion, taking a leap of faith. A valid choice, but not one that many would make.
Far too many big brands have made the mistake of out sourcing their after sales support, often to agencies that are handling multiple brands. Logistically, India is a very difficult country to manage.
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Old 20th April 2016, 22:27   #4587
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by optimist View Post
Trying to conserve power but will the ac really need to go down to that low level or it is just a case of available range of the ac?
I am quite curious to know too. When both ambient temperature and heat gain is low, say month of April and September, north facing room, no direct exposure to south west sun; in this scenario I suppose the cooling power required to cool from 33 to 28 deg C, and maintain at 28 C would be pretty low. That's why I choose a wide power range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Logistically, India is a very difficult country to manage.
Companies need to keep their (out sourced) service technicians on a tight leash. Otherwise there is no sense of commitment. Yesterday a technician sent by Daikin came and inspected our old IDU. He promised to come again today with appropriate testing equipment. He did not turn up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Actually the warm walls ruin the fun, hence your AC requires a slightly higher tonnage/longer compressor run.
Very interesting explanation. My bedroom does not have a warm wall. The only wall that could have been heated by the sun is shielded by a bathroom. So I suppose the heat gain would be pretty low, right?
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Old 20th April 2016, 22:36   #4588
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Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Companies need to keep their (out sourced) service technicians on a tight leash. Otherwise there is no sense of commitment. Yesterday a technician sent by Daikin came and inspected our old IDU. He promised to come again today with appropriate testing equipment. He did not turn up.
i had a terrible experience with the outsourced service technician last year. Had scheduled a deep clean for my moms room AC and the guy was very unscrupulous. He wound down the gas flow on the ODU and within a week I noticed almost no cooling. Naturally I called him back and he conned me saying no gas and he will refill personally for 1k. Had no time and was ill that time so paid him off and am pretty sure he just opened the gas flow and pretended to fill the gas in less that 15 mins... Man I felt like a sucker.
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Old 21st April 2016, 11:19   #4589
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Just installed a 1.5T Napoleon Split (5 star) for my MASSIVE rooftop room. Does a great job at night but the day time heat is killing it. Might need another AC (which i don't want), so might experiment by clubbing it with a small portable cooler or think about insulating the roof!

I paid 28k for the unit + installation in NOIDA.
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Old 21st April 2016, 11:19   #4590
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Guite View Post
Very interesting explanation. My bedroom does not have a warm wall. The only wall that could have been heated by the sun is shielded by a bathroom. So I suppose the heat gain would be pretty low, right?
Absolutely, but the wall heating is not just related to sunlight.
Say you are living in blistering heat of Delhi, where the air temperature touches 50 deg C.

The hot air also heats up the walls! So even if your walls are not exposed to direct sun, they are always exposed to the hot air. The best way out in such case is to have some kind of sealing from the outside air.
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