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Old 24th November 2016, 18:52   #4906
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Latest chapter in the saga of our Sharp AC...

Now over two years old, out of maintenance, one-year AMC never honoured, Our AC man told he might well be able to fix that buzz that comes from the indoor-unit fan on any speed but fast, but he would have to take it to his workshop for the day. Within the hour, he brought the indoor unit back to show us that... the coils are leaking. He'll fix it, but it is more expense, especially if the gas has to be topped up.
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Old 24th November 2016, 19:34   #4907
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

For a short period this summers I had opportunity to use Inverter a/c as well as split 2 star unit. My tabulation is given at the link here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...=0&single=true

You can use filters to play with data.

I plan to start recording again after winter are over to share benefits or otherwise of inverter air conditioners.

The setup for recording units consumed is very simple. I bought a single phase electricity meter off amazon like this one.

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Connected a 15amp plug on one side and a 15amp socket on the other. Then I plug in the device between wall outlet and record reading, temperature and time.
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Old 24th November 2016, 22:01   #4908
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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... I bought a single phase electricity meter off amazon like this one. Connected a 15amp plug on one side and a 15amp socket on the other. ...
Neat. How much did the meter cost you?
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Old 25th November 2016, 08:33   #4909
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Amazon home delivered at Rs350
http://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B01D...HDMNSJ0C8FX94B

Total cost was south of Rs500 including wire and plug socket switch

If some one wants to also add their readings I can make the spreadsheet editable so that more data can be gathered of real time consumption.

Last edited by sudev : 25th November 2016 at 08:44.
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Old 25th November 2016, 17:22   #4910
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Thank you sudev.

My first thought is actually a couple of old fridges which I am trying to persuade my wife would be cheaper to replace that to run.
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Old 26th November 2016, 00:46   #4911
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Latest chapter in the saga of our Sharp AC...

Now over two years old, out of maintenance, one-year AMC never honoured, Our AC man told he might well be able to fix that buzz that comes from the indoor-unit fan on any speed but fast, but he would have to take it to his workshop for the day. Within the hour, he brought the indoor unit back to show us that... the coils are leaking. He'll fix it, but it is more expense, especially if the gas has to be topped up.
After all that time waiting for Sharp to supply a new motor to the AMC guys, our local-street man found a bad bearing which he replaced. It is not as breath-silent as it was when it was new, but at least it now only makes a little noise. Total cost,including repairing the coil, Rs.1,700.

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Old 26th November 2016, 09:42   #4912
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... Total cost,including repairing the coil, Rs.1,700.
Almost everyone I know that went for an inverter AC has had to pay unexpected maintenance/repair charges that often exceed the savings they realized owning the inverter AC.
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Old 26th November 2016, 09:59   #4913
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Almost everyone I know that went for an inverter AC has had to pay unexpected maintenance/repair charges that often exceed the savings they realized owning the inverter AC.
I do not see how the repair of the coil can be associated with an inverter set up. Pray you can educate me on this. Quite often it is the service personnel who mess up. Like in my case they managed to get water into the fan motor on the condenser side of my Daikin Inverter AC, and also messed up by normal window AC. The motors had to be replaced in both.
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Old 26th November 2016, 10:25   #4914
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I do not see how the repair of the coil can be associated with an inverter set up. Pray you can educate me on this. ...
Does it matter what fails and why? For the end user it is simply and exclusively the electricity bills and the repair costs that decide the 'cost of running' of an inverter AC. That arithmetic is often not what the customer expected.
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Old 26th November 2016, 15:46   #4915
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Does it matter what fails and why? For the end user it is simply and exclusively the electricity bills and the repair costs that decide the 'cost of running' of an inverter AC. That arithmetic is often not what the customer expected.
Inverter or not, if your coil fails it fails. So this messes up the economics, for no fault of the Inverter. Yes, do not blame what is not responsible for the failure. Dare I say, Inverter or not, is irrelevant to the failure. Take my own case, is the motor failure attributed to the Inverter (Daikin) or not (Hitachi). The point is that these are running on the limits (any glitch messes it up), and are not repairable. Now as per your logic the normal AC failed since it is a 5*, so a 2* would have been better.
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Old 26th November 2016, 18:04   #4916
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Actually low tech helps at times. Take the case of older AC design
. No motherboard
. Mechanical temperature control
. No swinging, just static direction adjustments

The advantages were many
. Power glitches rarely a problem, the AC would chug on
. The condenser spacing was wider so much less chance of dust choking
. No electronics

With each generation, in order to increase efficiency and to enhance user friendliness, the appliances incorporate a lot of electronics and heat exchangers are denser to increase efficiency in a smaller size. Where the power is clean and indoor dust not much of a problem, modern AC is heaven sent. In our condition where power availability itself is a blessing (forget clean power) and dust ever present, the modern AC incurs a lot of maintenance and parts failure.

So, I would say that 1 star AC is definitely less troublesome that an 5 star Inverter. It lasts longer, has less maintenance costs and does not fail all of a sudden.

At Commercial/Industrial level where maintenance is much better and power conditioning can be afforded, the modern AC does save a lot in the lifetime costs, but in normal residential use the life time cost advantage of a modern AC is debatable.
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Old 26th November 2016, 23:53   #4917
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Almost everyone I know that went for an inverter AC has had to pay unexpected maintenance/repair charges that often exceed the savings they realized owning the inverter AC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
I do not see how the repair of the coil can be associated with an inverter set up. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Does it matter what fails and why?
Yes, because it is your argument, and you are saying "inverter." And the argument is looking like, Puncture? Yeah... diesels!

But Aroy has a good point on complexity generally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Actually low tech helps at times. ... ... ...So, I would say that 1 star AC is definitely less troublesome that an 5 star Inverter. It lasts longer, has less maintenance costs and does not fail all of a sudden.
except that all our AC failures over the decade (if I remember correctly) have been mechanical stuff, not electronic.

Quote:
At Commercial/Industrial level where maintenance is much better and power conditioning can be afforded, the modern AC does save a lot in the lifetime costs, but in normal residential use the life time cost advantage of a modern AC is debatable.
Cost advantage is not necessarily the issue. There is no doubt in my mind that an inverter AC is a premium item. It does the job much better. That would be my reason for buying inverter next time.

My solar water heater will never (for two people in small house) pay for itself: the convenience is huge.

My solar inverter (when I get around to pulling the trigger on that one) will almost certainly not either: it will provide better backup, and some ownership satisfaction in simple having the technology. I am not investing anything like enough to even start talking about noticeable current-bill reduction. It is a luxury item*.

That I chose a brand that went bad is a separate issue, and an instance in which I was trying to save money by buying what looked like the bargain giant killer. Nobody can blame inverter technology for that!



*And as for the paying for itself in ten years stuff, I'd reserve judgement on long-term investment returns until I'd seen the thing last that long. And anyway, as a public figure recently quoted a famous economist: In the long term, we're all dead

.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 26th November 2016 at 23:59.
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Old 1st December 2016, 01:20   #4918
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

I guess its mainly because most of the inverters use the newer R410a refrigerant that works at higher pressures.
We too have had bad luck with our Sharp ACs. We bought 5 of them. One in my wifes office, one for each bedroom and one for the hall.
The one in my wifes office corroded badly and the internal cooling coil and external condensor leaked. It was disposed of.
Two of the bedroom ACs which are used daily have had both cooling coils as well as condensors replaced.
The guest bedroom AC which is rarely used has had condensor replaced.
Luckily the living room AC which is only used in summer is fine so far.
The repair cost adds up to around 25-30k for ACs, thats around half the cost of a new one.
Plus the AMC which is around 5.5k and doesnt cover any of these parts or gas. W wont be renewing it this year after paying for 2 years. Luckily none of the electronics bits have failed and the replacement parts seem to be holding up.
Next time Ill definitely go for a 5 star with variable compressor or whatever. It has to be a 100% copper unit
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Old 1st December 2016, 08:17   #4919
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Oh the air con's of yore....low voltage meant compressor blow off. Too hot outside the compress would trip. Step / servo transformers were a must. And with low voltage these had to be of twice as much amperage

Yes newest always is not the best but technology leaps need to be evaluated and adopted if suitable

Last edited by sudev : 1st December 2016 at 08:18.
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Old 1st December 2016, 08:42   #4920
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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We too have had bad luck with our Sharp ACs. We bought 5 of them.
Lousy machines, lousy buy. Thank god I only bought one!

But just because Sharp turned out to be dud I am not put off inverter technology etc. Even alternative materials for heat exchangers is interesting and exiting. Copper corrodes! It was copper components that required repair in my Sharp. (apart from the motor bearings)

My locally repaired Sharp, by the way, is a little noisy, expecially compared to its luxury silence on auto fan speed when new, but it is nothing that can't be slept with, so 4K for last year's AMC was a money-wasting scam but 1.7k for this repair looks like money well spent.
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