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Old 15th April 2017, 17:23   #5101
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
:It appears, to my nose, to be coming from the indoor unit.
Is the AC used in an area where cooked food is present? Your filter must have absorbed the odors. And every time you use the AC, air flows through the filter and distributes the odors. In case of a window AC it's very easy to clean and maintain filters. You can literally remove them in 10 seconds wash them down with soap and warm water. Not sure how easy it would be with your split AC. When I was debating on which type of AC to install in my hall I eventually decided on 2 window ACs since they are much simpler and cheaper to maintain and have no piping losses like split ACs.
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Old 15th April 2017, 20:46   #5102
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Default Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Recently installed Voltas 123 Lyd into my daughter's room. Bought it from a amazon online and was delivered on time. Absolutely no issues there and the unit had recent manufacturing date.

However the installation experience was bad. Since it was Voltas the installation had to be done by their service center. Was intrigued by their stated SLA for installation of 24 'working' hrs - unique way to represent 3 working days!
Also their SLA compliance had to be commended - they called me 5 min before this 24 'working' hrs deadline just to confirm that their service guy will come next day.
Service was done next day after multiple follow ups but they left a lot of debris from the wall drilling and didn't own up to clean. After threatening not to pay and also escalating to their call center they agreed to clean up but still left with walls soiled with their dirty finger prints. Their attitude was apalling.
Apart from this rant around installation process the unit itself is quite silent and cools well. In fact my adjacent hallway also gets cooled if I leave the door opened🙂

Will update after couple of weeks about performance of the unit.

Last edited by harishhm74 : 15th April 2017 at 20:48.
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Old 15th April 2017, 22:51   #5103
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Tonight, after an evening out came back and

- checked machine generally: no smell.
- checked inside breaker box on wall for creatures: nothing, no smell.
- checked filters: filthy, Cleaned and refitted.

Will try again tonight.
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Old 16th April 2017, 23:00   #5104
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Just came back home after making an advance payment of Rs. 500 at Vasanth & Co to buy Carrier 1.5 ton Superia Inverter AC.

Reasoning in deciding the AC brand(In no particular order):

1. There are truck loads of marketing bull about every brand all over the internet and any amount of reading will only make you feel lost in the bull.

2. Also there are good and bad experiences written by users for every brand, so again they are useless.

3. On one hand, I used to think most companies such as LG, Samsung, Whirlpool, etc. have international reputation so they must be good, on the other I read most sell ACs with components from China to survive in the pricing war.

4. Some even say most of the brands all use same components with just different outer designs. Couple of weeks back I bought a LG washing machine and Bosch has a carbon copy of the same model.

5. Most of the brands have eerily similar features.

6. I live less than 500m from sea and do not want to take chance with aluminium condensers, and that rules out LG, Samsung, etc all primarily use aluminium condensers and evaporators.

6a. LG, Samsung, Whirlpool, etc sell many products such as ACs, washing machines, phones, etc. But for Carrier, Daikin, General, etc selling ACs is the only source of bread and butter for them.

7. General is very expensive. It does not have a history like Carrier. I do not like paying for brand names unnecessarily and Point No. 1 & 2 for General.

8. Did not consider Indian brands such as Voltas, Bluestar, etc. I'm very finicky about reliability and I'm not sure whether these brands are up there with the segment leaders.

9. Ruled out Mitsubishi, Trane, etc. as the sales is low and After Sales will be a big problem in the long run. If GM can vanish, imagine about these brands.

10. So that left me with Daikin and Carrier.

11. A Carrier is running on its 12th year in my home, in over-loaded conditions. When I purchased it, I was disappointed with its finesse, a lot of materials looked crude and I wondered how long it will last. It's on its 12th year now with very minimal maintenance. Had a part change of 500rs. once and a gas refill once. Nothing else apart from regular cleaning. It runs all day across the year and on summers close to 20 hours each day. It also tries to cool a over-sized room(for its capacity). Been a very satisfying purchase so far.

12. Wanted to try Daikin as I already owned Carrier(and the lack of finesse of it still in memory). Made a call today to a Daikin dealer and I was quoted 46k for 1.5 ton Inverter.

13. Carrier being the pioneers of Air Conditioner systems and my good experience with the brand kept lingering as I started to make a casual visit to Vasanth & Co.

14. A guy pounced on me as I put my head into the showroom and I told him I need Carrier 1.5 ton Inverter. He mentioned there is some offer running and muttered some details along with the price.

I do not like negotiation and haggling so I retorted "give me the best price" and his manager intervened with the following:

- Carrier 1.5 Ton Superia inverter 4i (4 Star) (http://carriermideaindia.com/Superia-4i.aspx)

- Free installation, Stabilizer and AC Stands.

- Rs. 45,000 for all

Having researched about the prices online, it sounded a good deal.

He said today is the last day for this offer and requested me to pay a token advance If I'm interested to buy. Daikin crossed my mind and I checked with him about Daikin and he said they don't sell Daikin. That's it. I didn't want to extend the brain storming anymore and ended it by paying a token advance of Rs. 500.

Hope this helps!

P.S: A lot of how the AC works depends on the quality of installation, so tell the installer beforehand that you need quality install.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 16th April 2017 at 23:16.
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Old 17th April 2017, 08:30   #5105
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

FYI, Carrier is partly or fully owned by Midea, a Chinese company and almost all its components are Chinese based/made. Probably the reason, the Midea microwave and purifier never took off.
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Old 17th April 2017, 09:25   #5106
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Wrong Info I think. They both run a join venture, no ownership exchange. Also, the first thing that catches your eyes when you search for Carrier is Midea, even the website of Carrier is carriermidea.com.

As I mentioned in my earlier post I arrived at my decision based on the combination of various reasoning(of the points mentioned). Adding some more:

- When I first thought of Carrier, as I said already the first thing that caught my eyes was Midea.

- Midea, a Chinese Fortune 500 company.

- As I mentioned in my earlier post, a lot of parts in the AC that is running in my home, indicate usage of Chinese parts.

- Air conditioner being a complex piece of machinery, I am aware that manufacturers are going to cut costs to stay relevant in pricing war. I'm Ok if the non-critical components don't ooze quality. What I need is the critical components to be of very high quality. And overall quality to be at a level where it ensures top performance, reliability and durability. The carrier in my home has been doing that for 12 years.

- Also, the other final one of two contenders was Daikin, which I think has only one manufacturing unit in India(in Rajasthan). And my mind goes on like, "How come a company can have only one manufacturing unit for a big country like India where AC demand is very high? Are the components all locally manufactured? Or, are they imported from some other countries?"

- So you see, there is no complete information anywhere about the manufacturing process of any of the brands.

- For me, Carrier nipped with its overall brand reputation, which is very high, and my past experience with them.

Anyone who is reading this post - please also read my earlier post.

A trivia From Daikin wiki page -

Daikin codeveloped a R-410A refrigerant with Carrier.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 17th April 2017 at 09:37.
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:14   #5107
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Before electronics made its headway in appliances in general and AC in particular, Carrier was a respected brand as they manufactured the compressors, and in those days an AC was a compressor two condensers and a mechanical thermostat.

Today things have changed a lot. There is load of electronics and to remain competitive the condensers have become lighted with closed spaced fins (at times made of aluminum). The most common failure is no longer the compressor but electronics followed by the condensers and piping. With popularity of split AC the piping is today the most critical part of an AC. So an indifferent installation, wrong pipe sizing and insufficient insulation will all contribute to early demise.

That is why, in my opinion, an excellent installation with excellent workmanship is the first thing one should insist on, and that costs a lot of money. We paid upwards of 7K for installation of our Daikin Inverter and the piping is a treat to see even now after 3 years.
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:38   #5108
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
That is why, in my opinion, an excellent installation with excellent workmanship is the first thing one should insist on, and that costs a lot of money. We paid upwards of 7K for installation of our Daikin Inverter and the piping is a treat to see even now after 3 years.
After reading your post I checked up the installation done at my place and found 2 pieces of piping totally exposed. Looks like a shoddy job. Do you think this is something I should get fixed right away and ensure its fully insulated ?

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Old 17th April 2017, 11:51   #5109
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
After reading your post I checked up the installation done at my place and found 2 pieces of piping totally exposed. Looks like a shoddy job. Do you think this is something I should get fixed right away and ensure its fully insulated ?

Attachment 1630232

Attachment 1630233
You should definitely insulate the exposed pipes ASAP. Apart from increasing the cooling, insulation would prevent electrical shocks in case a frayed bare wire touches them.
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:54   #5110
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Before electronics made its headway in appliances in general and AC in particular, Carrier was a respected brand as they manufactured the compressors, and in those days an AC was a compressor two condensers and a mechanical thermostat.
Carrier is still a very respected brand. It wouldn't still be operating in 170 countries otherwise, and it still does pioneering effects. Please check who developed the R410a refrigerant(which is being used by almost all the AC brands now) and introduced it into the market first.

Quote:
Today things have changed a lot. There is load of electronics
ACs are still very much electromechanical. Which areas in an AC are loaded with electronics and what is the processing involved?

Quote:
The most common failure is no longer the compressor but electronics followed by the condensers and piping.
Any data to backup?

I think condenser failure is the most common and expensive failure. Need proof? Just check how many brands advertise their machines with the tagline, "100% Copper Condenser".

I think if we are happy with one brand, we need not deride others subtly unless we have sufficient proof.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 17th April 2017 at 11:59.
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Old 17th April 2017, 11:57   #5111
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

You are wasting some energy in "cooling" the outside air.

Pipe insulation is absolutely not supposed to be tightly bound with tape. This reduces its efficiency. It is the air bubbles that insulate: let them not be squashed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CliffHanger View Post
- Air conditioner being a complex piece of machinery ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aroy View Post
Before electronics made its headway in appliances in general and AC in particular ...
AC is just a fridge which cools a room instead of a box. Larger scale. We have more electronics now, as Aroy says, and one side of this "fridge" is exposed to the elements.

It is hard judging reliability by longevity of existing equipment. I once lived with a fridge that was older than I was (20-something), but would the same make bought then last indefinitely? Not a chance.

All together now: They just don't make things like they used to. On purpose.
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Old 17th April 2017, 12:39   #5112
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
AC is just a fridge which cools a room instead of a box. Larger scale.
I respectfully disagree. It's just like saying, "Both Maruti 800 and Benz S class require same kind of engineering just because they both are cars and have four wheels, a chassis, an engine and three seats."

Quote:
We have more electronics now, as Aroy says, and one side of this "fridge" is exposed to the elements.
What are the electronics involved and processing involved? From my experience in fiddling with ACs, I still see them as a very much electromechanical device.

Quote:
It is hard judging reliability by longevity of existing equipment. I once lived with a fridge that was older than I was (20-something), but would the same make bought then last indefinitely? Not a chance.
Agreed. Our Kelvinator fridge is running on its 30th year( my mom says it was bought on 1988) without even a single problem.

Quote:
All together now: They just don't make things like they used to. On purpose.
It's because of a lot of factors. I don't blame them alone.

Last edited by CliffHanger : 17th April 2017 at 12:48.
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Old 17th April 2017, 13:26   #5113
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Default Re: Which home/office AC (air conditioner) to buy ?

Long term report for our ACs. I service all my ACs myself every year (outdoor wet cleaning and indoor dry cleaning).

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We have four split ACs in our home.

1) Voltas Vertis 1.0 Ton for living room (installed in July 2007) - This AC completes 10 long years of operation this summer season. Perfectly reliable AC, compressor still running strong and cools well. Experienced gas leakage once. Remote control replaced this year. I believe total maintenance cost for this AC hardly crossed Rs. 3000 in 10 years. Hope to have it for next 5 years more!

2) Samsung Split AC 1.0 Ton for bed room (installed in May 2008) - A good AC, but experienced quite a few malfunctions in terms of condenser leak once, gas leakage twice and PCB failure once. Overall expenditure for maintenance for this AC has been in the range of 5000-6000 INR approx in last 9 years. Compressor is still super strong and chills the room well. Expect it use for few more years.

3) Voltas Vertis 1.5 Ton for dining room (installed in March 2010) - The heavy duty AC in our Home. This chills the room that has maximum exposure of heat in summers and also no 100 % insulation is present in the room. Still it chills well. Maintenance wise, it also has experienced gas leakage once and overall expenditure for maintenance to keep it running has been 2500 INR in past 7 years.

4) Panasonic 1.2 Ton Cube for 2nd bed room (installed in April 2013) - The youngest one in the family. This AC is only in 4th year of service with 0 issues so far. Chills the room in minutes. Zero leakages. fingers crossed. Expect it to be running for at least next 10 years or so. No expenditure for maintenance.
All in all, it has been around 10-12k INR for overall maintenance for the ACs in past 10 years. Except for the Panasonic Outdoor unit, all other 3 outdoor units are exposed to direct sunlight (installed on south facing walls without any shades). I saved a lot of money by servicing all the ACs by self servicing. I believe they are giving me maximum value for money as compared to any other expensive brand would have given.

Last edited by bluevolt : 17th April 2017 at 13:28.
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Old 17th April 2017, 13:53   #5114
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I respectfully disagree. It's just like saying, "Both Maruti 800 and Benz S class require same kind of engineering just because they both are cars and have four wheels, a chassis, an engine and three seats."
Not at all. That would be comparing the most basic AC with the most expensive, feature-rich, inverter model. But they are still both machines that do heat exchange. Like a fridge.
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Old 18th April 2017, 17:28   #5115
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Originally Posted by drpullockaran View Post
Most important of all make sure the lazy fellow vacuums the AC indoor unit and piping for 15 minutes minimum after the connections are made.
Can you please elaborate on the vacuuming part mentioned by you? Is it for clear the dust if any in the newly installed pipes?
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