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Old 16th September 2008, 18:39   #91
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I have used 3 GPS phones in the last 1 year... HTC P3300, Nokia 6110 Navigator, Blackberry Pearl 8110.

And surprisingly the Nokia 6110 Navigator has a better cold start and time to fix compared to the other two, even though all three have AGPS enabled with an active EDGE connection. When i was checking out my friends iphone 3G, i did hear from him that battery maxes out at 2 days.

Check out modmyi, they have an iphone 3G modem app.
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Old 16th September 2008, 21:17   #92
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I recently had a look at i-phone 3G.

My observations:

1) The worst part of this phone is that its operator locked. No freedom for us to change the operator with ease as we do with other phones.

2) Apple's attitude is not good. It says " We dont want every second person standing in mall to have i-phone ". They have priced it insanley. The 16GB phone is available internationally for around $300 ( i.e 300 * 45 = 13,500 Rs. ) and in India the same model is available for $800 ( i.e. 800 * 45 = 36,000 Rs. ). This is done for exclusivity says Apple. I think lower price and less availability can also be exclusive.

3) Video recording is not possible something I that even my Rs. 3500 Motorola L6 does.

4) I tried to copy some text from one place to other. Searched around, but could not find.

5) The looks! The biggest positive is the biggest negative. After four to five poeple have looked and browsed through the phone, it has to be cleaned.

6) Just like I-pod, the battery is not replacable by users and is not freely available as of now. This is, IMHO, a very, very wrong move and the manufacturer is trying to take un-necessary advantage of its image.



Now, I find the i-Mate Jajsm used by my friend is great phone as compared to i-phone and it costs approximately the same, but is much, much better.
Even if I am in the market in this price range for phones, I would not buy this phone.
Some attitude problem from Apple needs to be sorted out. Agreed, they dont have facalities to produce enough i-phones, but then why does most of the quota go to US and not India. If freely available as unlocked phone, then I am sure there is a very,very big market for these phones.

I-phone to me looks like " phone that just has name and nothing else ".


P.S. :The above is just a presonal opinion about the phone.
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Old 16th September 2008, 22:38   #93
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Perfectly fine to share your opinion, but let me correct you on point 2.

Nowhere in the world iPhone 3G is available, WITHOUT a contract, at 300 US$. Closest, well actually is almost double that for 8 GB
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Old 17th September 2008, 12:35   #94
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I agree with Jaggu. iPhones are now sold with contract and you can forget the idea of the $300 iphone. Did you also know that not everyone can get the iPhone for $300? You have to fullfill certain criteria before AT&T will give the phone to you at that price. New users have to get the phone at higher prices.

Conversely you cant also blame the Indian carriers Airtel and Vodafone. Average call rate in the US is about 20 - 30 cents a min. Average Indian call rates are about 2 - 5 cents a min. How can the carriers offer subsidies when they are selling the minutes for such a low price? Another point to be noted is that in the US the monthly contract comes to around $80 or $90. Would you be willing to be tied down to such a contract, in India?

The iPhone might not suit everyone, but for the ones it does, it works out fine.
I have a first gen unlocked phone and I get EDGE for Rs2000/year and a monthly prepaid bill of Rs100. Works out fine for me.
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Old 17th September 2008, 15:09   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Nowhere in the world iPhone 3G is available, WITHOUT a contract, at 300 US$. Closest, well actually is almost double that for 8 GB
Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
I agree with Jaggu. iPhones are now sold with contract and you can forget the idea of the $300 iphone. Did you also know that not everyone can get the iPhone for $300? You have to fullfill certain criteria before AT&T will give the phone to you at that price. New users have to get the phone at higher prices.
I was seriously not aware of the fact that i-phones are now sold only under contract. This is a very rare thing I have seen in present days.
Also was not aware that there are criteria's that need to be fulfilled before one got $300 i-phone.
Thanks for updating me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Conversely you cant also blame the Indian carriers Airtel and Vodafone. Average call rate in the US is about 20 - 30 cents a min. Average Indian call rates are about 2 - 5 cents a min. How can the carriers offer subsidies when they are selling the minutes for such a low price? Another point to be noted is that in the US the monthly contract comes to around $80 or $90. Would you be willing to be tied down to such a contract, in India?

The iPhone might not suit everyone, but for the ones it does, it works out fine.
I have a first gen unlocked phone and I get EDGE for Rs2000/year and a monthly prepaid bill of Rs100. Works out fine for me.
Not really. The customer base in India is very very big and that's why the low rate.
And I really dont understand the relation between high cost of i-phone and low call rates. To me its this simple. If other calls are cheap in India, so I phone customer must get calls cheap, even in operator locked format.
Now how does this justify high price ? Looks like Indian companies are also trying to make the best benefit from the image.


I last time craked PSP ( Play Station Portable ), but didnt know that I-phone can also be cracked with ease. Will definitely inform to those who have one.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 17th September 2008 at 15:10.
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Old 17th September 2008, 22:00   #96
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2G iPhone is unlockable, but 3G is still not, the only thing you can do to 3G iPhone right now is jailbrake, the SIM solution do work for some but its not reliable, so it still better to stay away from 3G locked phone if you are not planing for contract.

-Pramod
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Old 17th September 2008, 23:50   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post

Not really. The customer base in India is very very big and that's why the low rate.
And I really dont understand the relation between high cost of i-phone and low call rates. To me its this simple. If other calls are cheap in India, so I phone customer must get calls cheap, even in operator locked format.
Now how does this justify high price ? Looks like Indian companies are also trying to make the best benefit from the image.
Even if indian customer base is more (which i doubt), the avg bill is way lower compared to our western counterparts. So it will not work out in the current scenario.

Also Airtel offers 500MB data free for 1 year with iPhone, which is a very good deal.
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Old 18th September 2008, 00:33   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Even if indian customer base is more (which i doubt), the avg bill is way lower compared to our western counterparts. So it will not work out in the current scenario.
I doubt if any other manufacturer of phones review the paying capability of Indian customers or the size of their bills before putting a phone out into the market. That goes for phones that offer a lot more than the iPhone too.

Indian operators have never had a business model built around subsidizing phones. Why then are we talking about the need to subsidize the iPhone?

Sell it at its full value of $600 or 700, no issues - that is still around Rs.28k. What we have here is a case where the operators are charging MORE for the phone and are STILL locking it to their networks. Anywhere else that would be illegal and they can be taken to court. Here they get away with it.

Let us therefore not discuss the Indian customer's average mobilephone bill here. That is none of Apple's business.

Therefore let us not discuss what the Indian customer's mobilephone bills are on a monthly basis. That is none of Apple's business.

HTC, O2, and various other PDA-phone manufacturers sell their phones in India through independent dealer channels. Why is Apple sticking to their stupid operator-locked philosophy een when the phone is priced at a premium over its list price elsewhere in the world?

IMHO a phone manufacturer should price their phones based on their cost and what the market can pay for a terminal, not based on what the customer pays for his service every month.

Last edited by Steeroid : 18th September 2008 at 00:35.
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Old 18th September 2008, 06:42   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Sell it at its full value of $600 or 700, no issues - that is still around Rs.28k. What we have here is a case where the operators are charging MORE for the phone and are STILL locking it to their networks.
I agree with you Steer!
Even I don't understand why Apple is charging a premium for iPhone even though they are selling thru the operators with a lock in period of 2 years!
Either you sell thru operator at a subsidised price of 20K with a lock-in of 2 years OR you sell thru open market for 30K.
But, Apple wants to have a double whammy!
Quote:
Anywhere else that would be illegal and they can be taken to court. Here they get away with it.
There is hope!
Consumers can report this case to TRAI!

Last edited by finneyp : 18th September 2008 at 06:48.
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Old 18th September 2008, 07:36   #100
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I believe this is because the Manufacturing cost of the Apple iPhone is more than $300.
(Although many people claim its lower, this is all just speculation). So the delta extra is paid by the Service Provider to Apple.

Same concept with Printers, You can get a Print/Copy/Scan Color printer for as low as 3-4k. The manufacturer does not profit in selling the printer, rather they make their profits in selling ink cartridges for the same printer model.
Same with Gillette razor. Its the blade which rips your pocket.
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Old 18th September 2008, 09:51   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Sell it at its full value of $600 or 700, no issues - that is still around Rs.28k. What we have here is a case where the operators are charging MORE for the phone and are STILL locking it to their networks. Anywhere else that would be illegal and they can be taken to court. Here they get away with it.

Let us therefore not discuss the Indian customer's average mobilephone bill here. That is none of Apple's business.
I humbly beg to differ. Apple has got contracts with all the carriers and they most probably will have got revenue sharing deals. The 1st gen iPhone had about $18 per month from a customer going to Apple, over his contract of 2 years.
So that is an additional revenue of about $400 more to Apple. Tack that on to the $600 - $700 and the price of the iPhone becomes $1000 - $1100. This is roughly the price that the unlocked phone is selling in France, the only country where carrier locking of mobiles is illegal. (they did some other crap to those phones, but that is another issue).

So, would someone buy an iPhone for $1000?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
I believe this is because the Manufacturing cost of the Apple iPhone is more than $300.
(Although many people claim its lower, this is all just speculation).
Not speculation. iSuppli.com tore down both generation of iPhones to component parts and the price comes to about $275 for 1st gen and $250 for 2nd gen roughly. This does not take into account the R&D that went into making the phone. But that shouldnt concern us.
This is just good business tactics shown by Apple to be able to sell it at about $600.

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Anywhere else that would be illegal and they can be taken to court. Here they get away with it.
In Germany, T-Mobile was taken to court because they didnt sell unlocked phones. T-Mobile won. Maybe India could have better luck.

Last edited by srijit : 18th September 2008 at 09:58.
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Old 18th September 2008, 10:59   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
I humbly beg to differ.
Feel free to differ - dont be so humble, even though you're wrong



Quote:
Originally Posted by srijit View Post
Apple has got contracts with all the carriers and they most probably will have got revenue sharing deals. The 1st gen iPhone had about $18 per month from a customer going to Apple, over his contract of 2 years.
So that is an additional revenue of about $400 more to Apple. Tack that on to the $600 - $700 and the price of the iPhone becomes $1000 - $1100.
The additional revenue to Apple is from the locked phones. For the unlocked ones at 600-700$ they pocket all the money upfront, hence the lower total outlay when compared to $300 + monthly payouts.

Anyway, everyone agrees this thing is horribly overpriced and overhyped. I'm glad I moved back to HTC - my life is normal again, without looking silly while trying to type out messages with that stupid virtual keyboard or make elaborate finger gestures to a handheld device to get it to do something.


EDIT: Meanwhile AT&T have announced the first Google Android-powered phone. The HTC device will start selling on T Mobile and AT&T networks for $199. No strings attached, hopefully.

Last edited by Steeroid : 18th September 2008 at 11:19.
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Old 18th September 2008, 12:19   #103
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Hi guys, my take on it is this:

1. If you like the phone and are willing to live with all its advatanges and disadvatages, and have the money to spare, you may go ahead and buy it.

2. If you like the phone, but dont have the money to buy it, then thats that, no use cribbing about it and saying that it should have been cheaper. Every company has the right to charge what they feel is right for their products. Its upto the consumer to decide if they want to buy it at that price or not, and then the normal economics of demand and supply will work. Either consumers will buy at the price given by the manufacturer, or they dont and the manufacturer will reduce his price over time. Remember, they are here to do business.

3. If you dont like the phone and have the money to buy it, dont buy it. There are a number of phones out there which you may like and may want to buy at that price point.

The only thing I dont agree with is that the phone is locked to a carrier, even though we are paying the full price for it. But hey, thats the way the want to market it, and there are people who will buy it.

Personally i like what they have done with the phone, and they have managed to shake up the mobile phone giants into thinking on different lines. The iphone is probably the phone which has resulted in great phones like the diamond and the omnia and many others which will come out in the future.
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Old 18th September 2008, 12:46   #104
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Some thoughts inline in BOLD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Sell it at its full value of $600 or 700, no issues - that is still around Rs.28k. What we have here is a case where the operators are charging MORE for the phone and are STILL locking it to their networks. Anywhere else that would be illegal and they can be taken to court. Here they get away with it.

The actual cost might be even lesser, BUT nowhere its sold without contract at 600-700 $ and legit!!!



HTC, O2, and various other PDA-phone manufacturers sell their phones in India through independent dealer channels. Why is Apple sticking to their stupid operator-locked philosophy een when the phone is priced at a premium over its list price elsewhere in the world?

HTC models are locked to Airtel if you are buying through authorized channels in India
Quote:
Originally Posted by mav2000 View Post

The only thing I dont agree with is that the phone is locked to a carrier, even though we are paying the full price for it. But hey, thats the way the want to market it, and there are people who will buy it.

Its only locked IN for 1 year!! I have said it so many times. Even HTC models sold legit through dealers are for 1 year, especially if its a new line of product.

Later in the life cycle, they chuck this lock in clause out.




Personally i like what they have done with the phone, and they have managed to shake up the mobile phone giants into thinking on different lines. The iphone is probably the phone which has resulted in great phones like the diamond and the omnia and many others which will come out in the future.

Personally i believe it has opened lot of other players an oppurtunity to move their slow moving stuff. Has anybody noticed how Nokia and Blackberry are playing add's on our channels for top end mobs which has a very ltd market in India. Is it a mere coincidence that it started after iPhone ???lol
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Old 18th September 2008, 13:44   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Feel free to differ - dont be so humble, even though you're wrong
Too much trouble to change my ways, just for you


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
unlocked ones at 600-700$
From where can you get unlocked phones for $600 - $700? That's cheap!!!

Name:  iphonerates.jpg
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Please take a look at phone costs, then the compulsory contract rates. The phone is costly, no doubt.

Source: Ars Technica
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