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|7th January 2009, 18:13||#91|
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Well since you have indicated all the key conditions that were evident in Arthur Andersen's case also, did you know that they had to discontinue for the same reasons as below apart from shady business and consulting ethics. Result, they had no option but to liquidate. Today, they do have their brand name back and have been acquitted on several grounds, but no-one wants to deal with them. Insolvency is the way I see for Satyam, unfortunately. Sorry brothers, but ray of light is simply not there if we go by previous similar incidents.
And thanks Deetee, for bringing out the call/option play side of it. Don't know who all made money here by shortselling, but a lot of money was made on this stock today. Let's see whenever those figures come out in the open (like in the case of WTC).
Last edited by given2fly : 7th January 2009 at 18:17.
|7th January 2009, 18:31||#92|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Thanked: 4 Times
given2fly, i agree with your analysis but I hope you're wrong.
There's a lot at stake, not just for satyam but for the whole IT industry.
|7th January 2009, 18:53||#93|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Thanked: 3,509 Times
While we have all been pondering over family-owned and run businesses, what is the guarantee that group owned businesses arent dirty themselves? <Shivers at the very thought>
|7th January 2009, 20:12||#94|
Senior - BHPian
Join Date: Dec 2005
Thanked: 164 Times
Very shocking to hear about this Satyam scam!
I am surprised to note that as per Mr.Raju's letter the Senior Management and executive Directors of Satyam were not aware of this scandle which was going on for some years!
What about the CFO? Don't tell me even he was unaware!
Tough days ahead for the Satyam Management, they'll have to face serious legal actions.
I feel sorry for the employees (Middle management & below), after doing all the hard work for the company, for no mistake of theirs they are stuck in this big mess, I hope they come out of this at the earliest.
Last edited by finneyp : 7th January 2009 at 20:21.
|7th January 2009, 20:20||#95|
Join Date: Jan 2006
Thanked: 136 Times
The investors are cheated and the guilty should be punished including the board members and auditors. However I am not sure if taking an entire company down for such actions is justified. After all promoter holding is hardly anything compared to the likes of DLF WIPRO etc. Companies like Hyundai have had scandals too. I think govt should step in and see to it that something is done soon and get the company back in shape. There are 55000 hard working individuals who dont really interact with people of CEO level anyway. So a new board or an acquisition can put it back on track soon. I really hope they put it back on track. There are far too many jobs at stake (am sure it will go over 250K if indirect jobs are taken into account)
One point to ponder is the reason why Mr Raju did something like this. As per his letter, he hasnt really made money out of this accounting. So was it only to keep power and position since promoter shareholding was low?
As for the stock price, we already have analysts saying it will come down to 10Rs. It has to be seen. If we go by Mr Raju's estimate of profit (I think 60crs as against 640)and cut down the price from a fairly valued 350 to a tenth, then does 35 make it fairly valued? I am not too much of a technical guy looking at positions, trends, charts etc. Just feel that a company which has everything going for it but for a stupid accounting practice and a shady promoter, might get another chance to set things right.
|7th January 2009, 20:27||#96|
Senior - BHPian
Join Date: Nov 2006
Thanked: 837 Times
I think a independent board should be appointed to clean up the mess.
The company does have many clients and there are employees who are working on those projects. There might be some hard times but they should be able to see through this situation.
Maybe people from outside should can clear the situation. Theoretical management gurus, it seems were of no use.
PriceWaterhouseCoopers were the auditors.
Last edited by srishiva : 7th January 2009 at 20:32.
|7th January 2009, 21:03||#97|
Senior - BHPian
Join Date: May 2007
Thanked: 1,436 Times
I am sure that government will come up with some acquisition plan on hand. This company is not limited to India, but is a global company and infact, it can hurt India's image also.
|7th January 2009, 21:08||#98|
Join Date: Nov 2005
Thanked: 8 Times
When these giants companies operate, they often don't have liquid cash for more than over 30-40 days of day to day operation. They need to borrow money from various sources (banks, investors etc.) When the lenders give them money, they (lenders) also need to make them feel safe about their money i.e the borrower can pay back the money with interest.
But with this fiasco, institutions will be very much reluctant to provide more money as they now think Satyam can no longer afford to pay them back.
As a consequence, companies will have cash flow problem. This is what happened for GM etc. (though not resulting from any fraud as in this case).
As others already said, it will affect many other companies as well. The whole world already in a recession. Incidents like this is a death sentence on IT economy :(
|7th January 2009, 21:15||#99|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Thanked: 24 Times
i have quite a few friends working for Satyam in many countries...i pray for them now...
|7th January 2009, 21:48||#100|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chennai / Dubai
All the so called experts could not see what was to happen to the world when the “sub-prime” crisis hit the US a year ago.
|8th January 2009, 00:35||#101|
Join Date: May 2006
Thanked: 6 Times
Now and then
Go to this link and read what he spoke on 30th December 08,also read comments posted below by readers.
Satyam Chairman Raju's letter to employees- Software-Infotech-The Economic Times
This link is also worth read.
Now, Satyam board can not decide on buyback- Software-Infotech-The Economic Times
Last edited by ECM : 8th January 2009 at 00:37. Reason: Added one link
|8th January 2009, 01:40||#102|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: NOIDA / Gurgaon
Thanked: 8 Times
IMHO in today's economy the big island between forecasting & fudging financial data is rapidly disappearing. Satyam computers in an exceptional example. So was Denmark's IT Factory (about a month back). Both of them were audited by top consulting firms like PWC, Ernst & Young, and likes. They were showered with accolades and awards and made to appear stars second to none in more than one aspects. But then reality has a habit of waking us up from our dreams with a rude shock.
It seems we are living in a world where corporates have built for themselves a larger-than-life halo. Modern economics and breeding of smart MBAs by smarter American universities, the relentless pressures on producing "numbers", aggressive forecasting, the magical art of creating wealth overnight on paper not sustainable in reality have all contributed so effectively in pushing the world back by at least a decade. So much for that smart and fast Wall or Dalal street charms.
To cut a long story short - I'd certainly believe a very good proportion of individuals amongst us saw it coming. I saw it coming (& am no economist) based on simple trends. Reckless usage of credit instruments, symbiotic creditor-debtor relationships in loans, mortgages.. Hindsight is such a precise and wonderful tool Yet I put most of my earnings in shares and sitting on half losses. I picked up Satyam too, today! It is one thing to see it coming and another to actually act on it. That's because warnings were issued several times. But each time the momentum of ever growing greed won. And each time warnings sounded more feeble than before. I saw it coming but did not think that it will actually impact me too. And that it would be so so so gigantic! Or maybe anything less than a disaster would have failed in waking up all of us so fast.
We are human beings finally. Organisations are built and run by human beings. Today it is Satyam. Will there be X tomorrow? Or will this be a solitary example? I have a feeling it will not be. Because I have personally seen fine lines between forecasting and fudging modern day finance data and numbers crossed quite casually in very respected companies. Hope these are accounted for in the annual result instead of letting it snowball and feed the tiger out of manageable proportions. But then we are only human beings. In our disasters we rope in others as well!
|8th January 2009, 03:07||#103|
Join Date: Jun 2007
Thanked: 194 Times
I just spoke to a London based PwC friend of mine and he says there are a lot of questions being asked here on what is PwC's role and why they havent made a statement yet. I believe all employees have been asked to keep from making any statements to media and even the senior management is unwilling to answer any employee queries. He says it's likely they'll lose a lot of IT related business in the short term, irrespective of whether they have a hand in this or not.
I feel very sad for the employees of Satyam. Hope they are not subjected to too much trauma going forward
|8th January 2009, 03:19||#104|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego
Thanked: 246 Times
Lets not discount all this as being human. He is a criminal, and should be tried according to the laws of the land. Equating Satyam to other Indian companies in the light of recent events would be disgraceful to other indian companies.
|8th January 2009, 04:05||#105|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Thanked: 7 Times
In fact if you can read the letter, it is clearly understandable that he made all efforts possible to get this issue resolved internally.
Deetee had mentioned few possible reasons for what could have been the reasons behind the fixing up over the years.
Lalvaz has valid points about auditors (Indian subsidy of Price Waterhouse Coopers in this case) and auditing practices.
He has received many awards for excellence and showed a strong social orientation and has been furthering the cause of social transformation through Byrraju Foundation and EMRI-108. To know more about Mr. Raju and his achievements, please check this Wiki article and this website.
I did invest in some business and lost considerably and i know the pain of losing so you can understand that i am not a person who sit here and typing crap with out any work.
Few invested even by getting loans at higher rates when SATYAM was a blue chip and now i see losers ranting on TV saying SATYAM as ASATYAM and SATYANASH and other crap.
I feel it is the over (re)active media which literally is now a days getting on with creating news rather than reporting news is primary cause for the turn of events to get so ugly manner in such a very short span of time.
Good luck to all SATYAM employees, management, investors and all those who are directly or indirectly linked to SATYAM and i pray for a better solution of all of them including Mr. Raju.
P.S: I do not work for SATYAM and i am in no way linked to Satyam.
Last edited by TrueDreamer : 8th January 2009 at 04:15.
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