Cheating by PeopleSoft Trainer ERPGuru: Oracle takes action!

Samurai · 17th March 2009, 19:05

Recently I needed to get one engineer trained in PeopleSoft integration tools. After looking around in the web, we found a company called ERPGuru (Parivartan Solutions) in Pune with multiple branches in the country. They claimed to be India's only Oracle Approved Education Center for PeopleSoft and JD Edwards training.

PeopleSoft Training, JD Edwards Training Jobs, Consulting - ERP Guru

Since this is part of Oracle certification course, the fee was quite high and we had to pay in advance. The company CEO Arvind Naik claimed that the fee had to be paid in advance to Oracle before they can enable the online content for the training. We agreed for 8 days of training. First 3 days were non-certified in-house training for introduction into PeopleSoft. The next 5 days were Oracle certified training in PeopleSoft integration tools. We paid 1.67 lakhs in advance and made all the travel and hotel arrangements for the attendee.

With only days to start of the training, we were informed that the training may have to be postponed because of unavailability of trainer. This was very upsetting since I was under lot of pressure to make this training happen fast. Then Arvind Naik suggested he can still provide the entire training using his in-house trainers. However, no certificate can be provided. This was a little fishy since we had already paid for Oracle certified course.

After some internal discussion we decided we can live without the certificate. We needed the course for knowledge sake, not for certification. However, the price has to be re-negotiated since Oracle is no more involved. But I was unable to catch hold of Arvind Naik on phone since he started traveling all of a sudden. Now I was in a fix, the training was a day away and I didn't want to proceed with the training without re-negotiating the price. But the full payment was already done, so I was not in a position of strength for bargaining. Finally I asked my engineer to go ahead and attend the training.

Couple of days later I was informed that Arvind Naik will pay back Rs.25,000 for not giving us the certificate. And I was again unable to contact Mr.Naik over phone to discuss this matter. Eventually he gave the cheque for the same to my engineer. By this time I was quite upset by the unprofessional behavior of Arvind Naik, but I didn't escalate the matter then since I didn't want the ongoing training to be affected. Anyway, my engineer finally came back from the training. Although he found the trainers to be competent, he had no access to official training resources and had to make do with a demo system at ERPGuru office.

Now a new drama began. The 25K cheque bounced for lack of funds. We were asked by ERPGuru to deposit again, it bounced again. And it has been bouncing ever since. Our phones are not picked, emails are not replied. After more than a month of this saga, I am finally convinced that this Arvind Naik schemed this all along. He takes full amount for Oracle certified training and then keeps it. He is cheating Oracle and he is cheating customers like us.

Now I suspect ERPGuru is not an authorised Oracle training center at all, I made a mistake of not checking their claims. For one thing, they are not listed here: Oracle Certification Program

Ok, I think I made a dumb mistake of not checking the credentials for the company before doing business with them. I've learned my lesson. I will be sending a lawyer notice soon. Meanwhile, if anybody associated with Oracle is seeing this, kindly take necessary action against ERPGuru so that they can't misuse your name.

rhandle · 17th March 2009, 19:56

Damn that so unprofessional and unethical.

Send them a court notice for bouncing of cheques and besides that take them to consumer court. If possible drag them down to your place rather than fighting the case in Pune or Maharashtra.

invincible7 · 17th March 2009, 20:01

Samurai, its very unpleasant experience for you and i can sense your anger, frustration and pain.

I would suggest, get it touch with oracle through mail and narrate your experience to them. I am sure some steps would be taken by them aswell.

Also do get some media involved if you can to make this noticeble to all the general public who may go there thinking to get training and certification from Oracle.

finneyp · 17th March 2009, 20:12

A clear case of fraud!

Samurai, you should report this matter to the higher-ups in Oracle India.

Samurai · 17th March 2009, 20:41

I have emailed Oracle, I hope they would take some action.

vnabhi · 17th March 2009, 20:57

Samurai, I am sorry to hear about this episode. I've been working on PeopleSoft ERP for nearly a decade, and I would like you to know that there are no authorized training centres in India any longer---the one they had in Bangalore closed down about 4 years ago.
The nearest authorized center is at Singapore. PM me for further details on PeopleSoft.

CorsaLove · 17th March 2009, 21:06

Samurai - Sorry to hear about that.

Its hard to believe that well established companies, even though small still indulge in such activities. This is the main reason why MNC's dont like to do any upfront payment for indian companies and want to make it net 30 basis or 50/50 basis.

Due to some people, we all suffer.

I have PMed you information about the Oracle Contacts in India and the HQ.

Samurai · 17th March 2009, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by vnabhi

and I would like you to know that there are no authorized training centres in India any longer---the one they had in Bangalore closed down about 4 years ago.

Oh boy... so this was all totally false advertisement.

This was the course we bought: Peoplesoft Integration Tools Rel 8.48 training course in Pune - ERPGuru - School Directory

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deepug · 17th March 2009, 21:29

Ironical that the Center is above a Skoda Showroom

BaCkSeAtDrIVeR · 17th March 2009, 21:32

Bouncing cheques are criminal offences. Please meet a lawyer, send a notice (you do not have much time, since I presume at least one week has elapsed now). What was the reason for "bouncing"? (You will get a cheque from the cheque issuer's bank through your bank.)

If reason is "no funds", the offence is Section 138, Negotiable Instruments Act.

If the reason is "payment countermanded", or anything else, offence is S. 420, IPC (cheating). (countermanded = there is cash / balance / overdraft limit available, but the cheque issuer has asked the bank not to make the payment).

I suppose your bank is in Manipal / Udupi; so the case can be filed in Udupi courts.

Edit:- Re-read vnabhi's post after posting this. I think you should take this seriously. Claiming to be an authorised training center when you are not, is outright cheating. You should ask for full refund; and meet a lawyer immediately.

Samurai · 17th March 2009, 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

Bouncing cheques are criminal offences. Please meet a lawyer, send a notice (you do not have much time, since I presume at least one week has elapsed now). What was the reason for "bouncing"? (You will get a cheque from the cheque issuer's bank through your bank.)

What is the definition of a criminal offense? I thought criminal offense means, I can lodge a FIR with the police and it will be prosecuted. But here I have to do the whole bit myself. We are talking to a lawyer, I can't reveal those details.

But the website of ERPGuru clearly claims they are Oracle approved.

greenhorn · 17th March 2009, 22:54

there seems to be a hindu article in which they claim they are approved
The Hindu Business Line : ERP Guru ties up with Oracle

bigman · 18th March 2009, 01:29

Sorry to hear about that.

Cheque bouncing is quite a serious thing in India :

2 men sentenced in cheque bounce cases - Express India

SirAlec · 18th March 2009, 01:46

you can contact oracle at

Email
edus_in@oracle.com

Toll Free: 1800 425 8877

Or

80 4108 4700

kuttapan · 18th March 2009, 02:24

Every second person is a con-artist in this line of business.. Too bad that you got conned by one. The fundamental rule is not to pay the full money upfront in any case, so that you have some chips to bargain with. In your case, the certification requirement was the issue, maybe you still could have worked out some arrangement Mr. Convind Naik- but then, hindsight is 20-20.

When I did my Oracle certification some 7 years back, the Oracle approved partner failed to provide the course material until I had almost finished my certification. I got the "Instructor manuals" at the end- the dumb guy running the institution did not know what it meant - I just took the opportunity and ran away with the books before he could think more. However, some of my batchmates did not get their copy. I think they did not inform proper numbers to Oracle, to maximise profits.

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17th March 2009, 19:05
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: B'lore-Manipal Posts: 15,378 Thanked: 2,741 Times View My Garage	Cheating by PeopleSoft Trainer ERPGuru: Oracle takes action! Recently I needed to get one engineer trained in PeopleSoft integration tools. After looking around in the web, we found a company called ERPGuru (Parivartan Solutions) in Pune with multiple branches in the country. They claimed to be India's only Oracle Approved Education Center for PeopleSoft and JD Edwards training. PeopleSoft Training, JD Edwards Training Jobs, Consulting - ERP Guru Since this is part of Oracle certification course, the fee was quite high and we had to pay in advance. The company CEO Arvind Naik claimed that the fee had to be paid in advance to Oracle before they can enable the online content for the training. We agreed for 8 days of training. First 3 days were non-certified in-house training for introduction into PeopleSoft. The next 5 days were Oracle certified training in PeopleSoft integration tools. We paid 1.67 lakhs in advance and made all the travel and hotel arrangements for the attendee. With only days to start of the training, we were informed that the training may have to be postponed because of unavailability of trainer. This was very upsetting since I was under lot of pressure to make this training happen fast. Then Arvind Naik suggested he can still provide the entire training using his in-house trainers. However, no certificate can be provided. This was a little fishy since we had already paid for Oracle certified course. After some internal discussion we decided we can live without the certificate. We needed the course for knowledge sake, not for certification. However, the price has to be re-negotiated since Oracle is no more involved. But I was unable to catch hold of Arvind Naik on phone since he started traveling all of a sudden. Now I was in a fix, the training was a day away and I didn't want to proceed with the training without re-negotiating the price. But the full payment was already done, so I was not in a position of strength for bargaining. Finally I asked my engineer to go ahead and attend the training. Couple of days later I was informed that Arvind Naik will pay back Rs.25,000 for not giving us the certificate. And I was again unable to contact Mr.Naik over phone to discuss this matter. Eventually he gave the cheque for the same to my engineer. By this time I was quite upset by the unprofessional behavior of Arvind Naik, but I didn't escalate the matter then since I didn't want the ongoing training to be affected. Anyway, my engineer finally came back from the training. Although he found the trainers to be competent, he had no access to official training resources and had to make do with a demo system at ERPGuru office. Now a new drama began. The 25K cheque bounced for lack of funds. We were asked by ERPGuru to deposit again, it bounced again. And it has been bouncing ever since. Our phones are not picked, emails are not replied. After more than a month of this saga, I am finally convinced that this Arvind Naik schemed this all along. He takes full amount for Oracle certified training and then keeps it. He is cheating Oracle and he is cheating customers like us. Now I suspect ERPGuru is not an authorised Oracle training center at all, I made a mistake of not checking their claims. For one thing, they are not listed here: Oracle Certification Program Ok, I think I made a dumb mistake of not checking the credentials for the company before doing business with them. I've learned my lesson. I will be sending a lawyer notice soon. Meanwhile, if anybody associated with Oracle is seeing this, kindly take necessary action against ERPGuru so that they can't misuse your name. Last edited by Samurai : 9th April 2009 at 21:09. Reason: typo

17th March 2009, 19:56
rhandle BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ghaziabad Posts: 539 Thanked: 21 Times	Damn that so unprofessional and unethical. Send them a court notice for bouncing of cheques and besides that take them to consumer court. If possible drag them down to your place rather than fighting the case in Pune or Maharashtra.

17th March 2009, 20:01
invincible7 BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 497 Thanked: 53 Times	Samurai, its very unpleasant experience for you and i can sense your anger, frustration and pain. I would suggest, get it touch with oracle through mail and narrate your experience to them. I am sure some steps would be taken by them aswell. Also do get some media involved if you can to make this noticeble to all the general public who may go there thinking to get training and certification from Oracle.

17th March 2009, 20:12
finneyp Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,418 Thanked: 9 Times View My Garage	A clear case of fraud! Samurai, you should report this matter to the higher-ups in Oracle India.

17th March 2009, 20:41
Samurai Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: B'lore-Manipal Posts: 15,378 Thanked: 2,741 Times View My Garage	I have emailed Oracle, I hope they would take some action.

17th March 2009, 20:57
vnabhi Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: DC -> DC Posts: 4,003 Thanked: 294 Times View My Garage	Samurai, I am sorry to hear about this episode. I've been working on PeopleSoft ERP for nearly a decade, and I would like you to know that there are no authorized training centres in India any longer---the one they had in Bangalore closed down about 4 years ago. The nearest authorized center is at Singapore. PM me for further details on PeopleSoft.

17th March 2009, 21:06
CorsaLove BHPian Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 384 Thanked: 8 Times View My Garage	Samurai - Sorry to hear about that. Its hard to believe that well established companies, even though small still indulge in such activities. This is the main reason why MNC's dont like to do any upfront payment for indian companies and want to make it net 30 basis or 50/50 basis. Due to some people, we all suffer. I have PMed you information about the Oracle Contacts in India and the HQ.

17th March 2009, 21:29
deepug BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Bangalore Posts: 85 Thanked: 0 Times	Ironical that the Center is above a Skoda Showroom

17th March 2009, 21:32
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kochi Posts: 2,142 Thanked: 129 Times	Bouncing cheques are criminal offences. Please meet a lawyer, send a notice (you do not have much time, since I presume at least one week has elapsed now). What was the reason for "bouncing"? (You will get a cheque from the cheque issuer's bank through your bank.) If reason is "no funds", the offence is Section 138, Negotiable Instruments Act. If the reason is "payment countermanded", or anything else, offence is S. 420, IPC (cheating). (countermanded = there is cash / balance / overdraft limit available, but the cheque issuer has asked the bank not to make the payment). I suppose your bank is in Manipal / Udupi; so the case can be filed in Udupi courts. Edit:- Re-read vnabhi's post after posting this. I think you should take this seriously. Claiming to be an authorised training center when you are not, is outright cheating. You should ask for full refund; and meet a lawyer immediately. Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 17th March 2009 at 21:44.

17th March 2009, 22:54
greenhorn Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: TN-22 Posts: 6,003 Thanked: 266 Times View My Garage	there seems to be a hindu article in which they claim they are approved The Hindu Business Line : ERP Guru ties up with Oracle

18th March 2009, 01:29
bigman Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NA Posts: 1,216 Thanked: 13 Times	Sorry to hear about that. Cheque bouncing is quite a serious thing in India : 2 men sentenced in cheque bounce cases - Express India

18th March 2009, 01:46
SirAlec Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Queen of the Hills Posts: 3,253 Thanked: 347 Times View My Garage	you can contact oracle at Email edus_in@oracle.com Toll Free: 1800 425 8877 Or 80 4108 4700 Last edited by SirAlec : 18th March 2009 at 01:48.

18th March 2009, 02:24
kuttapan Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,154 Thanked: 4 Times View My Garage	Every second person is a con-artist in this line of business.. Too bad that you got conned by one. The fundamental rule is not to pay the full money upfront in any case, so that you have some chips to bargain with. In your case, the certification requirement was the issue, maybe you still could have worked out some arrangement Mr. Convind Naik- but then, hindsight is 20-20. When I did my Oracle certification some 7 years back, the Oracle approved partner failed to provide the course material until I had almost finished my certification. I got the "Instructor manuals" at the end- the dumb guy running the institution did not know what it meant - I just took the opportunity and ran away with the books before he could think more. However, some of my batchmates did not get their copy. I think they did not inform proper numbers to Oracle, to maximise profits. Last edited by kuttapan : 18th March 2009 at 02:27.