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Old 22nd August 2009, 13:40   #1
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Default TV Electronics Question - PAL/PAL60/NTSC

I have a 4 year old LG 29 inches Golden Eye CRT TV.
I have 2 video players - one local player which has setting so that it can send it's output in PAL, PAL60 & NTSC.
The 2nd player in an imported player which can send output only in either PAL60 or NTSC.
I never knew about these settings - but I used to use both players with my TV for many years.

Around 3-4 months back, the video from both the players started going to the top of the screen - i.e. I couldn't see anything except the bottom 20% of the video projected on the top 20% of the screen. I called the LG TV mechanic.
He came & discovered that my local player was set to send the output in PAL60. He changed it to PAL & the picture came to right spot on the TV. He couldn't do it for the other player & he said I need to check with the manufacturer.

I assumed that I had accidentally changed settings on both the players & hence had the problem. Last week I dug out the manual for my imported player & went through it & found that it can project only in either PAL60 or NTSC. It doesn't have any option for PAL at all.
This led me to the conclusion that my TV could earlier work with both PAL & PAL60. Maybe even NTSC also. And something had gone wrong with the TV, that it could now only work with PAL.

I called the LG Authorised mechanic again & explained the whole scenario.
He wasn't very convinced. Now I took my imported player to my neighbour's house who has a Sansui 21 inch CRT & it worked fine on it.
He didn't know much about these formats but he talked to his supervisors
& said that LG autoadjusts to these formats. He said he would have to take the TV to the service center & would check it. He said he wasn't
sure, but if this was working earlier, they would be able to fix it. But for
now I didn't want to be without my TV for a week or so & hence said I
will schedule this later.

Now my question is - what could have gone wrong?
Does the TV have some converter with converts & the other signals so
that it can play it? And something has gone wrong with it.
Or is a seperate circuit for these other formats which has gone wrong.
I am not very convinced by the LG authorised mechanic's knowledge of these things. I was wondering who else I could contact so that this can be fixed at home rather than taking it away for god knows how long?
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Old 22nd August 2009, 16:59   #2
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check the remote there may be settings to change the color system of TV too.
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Old 22nd August 2009, 18:38   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
check the remote there may be settings to change the color system of TV too.

No. As I said in my original post, LG CRTs have no such settings. It's permanently set in Auto.
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Old 22nd August 2009, 19:08   #4
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PAL60 seems a lesser known format. Try setting it to NTSC and see if the TV auto detects
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Old 22nd August 2009, 20:31   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
PAL60 seems a lesser known format. Try setting it to NTSC and see if the TV auto detects
Actually, PAL60 is pseudo PAL - in this part of the world, more TVs support PAL60 than NTSC. Anyway, my TV used to support it earlier.
And I tried on NTSC also.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 11:37   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Actually, PAL60 is pseudo PAL - in this part of the world, more TVs support PAL60 than NTSC. Anyway, my TV used to support it earlier. And I tried on NTSC also.
Any ideas, anyone. What could be the problem here?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:05   #7
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Hi Carboy

NTSC is an Americal Braodcasting standard for Analog TV. It uses 60Hz interlaced scanning and 3.57MHz video intermediate frequency (VIF)

PAL is an Europen Brandcasting standard for Analog TV.it uses 50 Hz interlanced scanning and 4.43 MHz video IF. There is something called PAL M (=60Hz interaced scanning but 4.43 VIF used in some countries like in south america).

the previous generation systems used to play both NTSC 3.57 and PAL 50Hz as well as 60Hz But in todays systems are much more (cost innovated) precise and only play some specific standard only or Automatically choose the standard as per the invcomg signal.

If it is in AUTO mode the tuning software inside the TV automatically recognizes the standard and selects the appropriate filters to pass either 3.57/4.43 MHz VIF signal to the next block. When there is a problem to do this then you picture will start rolling or skewed as interlacing is disturbed

best is to discard the older systems and adapt newer systems.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:07   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post
Hi Carboy

NTSC is an Americal Braodcasting standard for Analog TV. It uses 60Hz interlaced scanning and 3.57MHz video intermediate frequency (VIF)

PAL is an Europen Brandcasting standard for Analog TV.it uses 50 Hz interlanced scanning and 4.43 MHz video IF. There is something called PAL M (=60Hz interaced scanning but 4.43 VIF used in some countries like in south america).
Yes, I had figured this out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post
the previous generation systems used to play both NTSC 3.57 and PAL 50Hz as well as 60Hz But in todays systems are much more (cost innovated) precise and only play some specific standard only or Automatically choose the standard as per the invcomg signal.
Note sure if this is true. I think old Indian systems used to play only PAL.
Systems made in the last 5-6 years player more than PAL.
Probably because the same manufacturing units manufacture parts for a lot of the world.
Likewise I also see a lot of US stuff which work on both 110 & 220 Voltage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post

If it is in AUTO mode the tuning software inside the TV automatically recognizes the standard and selects the appropriate filters to pass either 3.57/4.43 MHz VIF signal to the next block. When there is a problem to do this then you picture will start rolling or skewed as interlacing is disturbed
.
Yes. That's what I figured out. What I want to know what could have
gone wrong in the TV that it no longer adjusts to PAL60.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post
best is to discard the older systems and adapt newer systems.
What exactly are you asking me discard here?

Last edited by carboy : 23rd August 2009 at 12:13.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:13   #9
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PAL is the standard adopted in India yet there are various NTSC players present thanks to previously thriving grey market and Indian community in USA who brings back NTSC sets as gifts.
Samsung and LG both sell TVs in USA and Europ so most of thier models are PAL + NTSC dual system. To gain foothold in Indian market ( in late 90s) Samsung and LG started selling these dual system TVs in Indian market and became hit.

So my guess is that your LG TV supports both PAL and NTSC but not PAL60 as that is not very popular in Inida.

OK Here is my guess check the setting of your Imported player and I think by mistake it is set to PAL60 from NTSC.
Else to check your TV borrow and NTSC player from someone and play back on your TV , There may be some problem with NTSC setting of your TV.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:29   #10
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Try to check you menu settings again on your dvd player, your tv will probably not have a dual format and therefore won't be ntsc compatable being a crt, your dvd player will play back both ntsc and pal(also secam) what dvd players do is trick the output to be like a pal signal if playing ntsc disc, this is the beauty of the digital age, soon these formats will be out of date, pal is infact a considerably better format than ntsc and secam is one step ahead of pal, though only used in a handleful of countries.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 12:50   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
So my guess is that your LG TV supports both PAL and NTSC but not PAL60 as that is not very popular in Inida.

OK Here is my guess check the setting of your Imported player and I think by mistake it is set to PAL60 from NTSC.
I tried both NTSC & PAL60 on player. Both don't work. Both used to work
earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amitk26 View Post
Else to check your TV borrow and NTSC player from someone and play back on your TV , There may be some problem with NTSC setting of your TV.
I have 2 players which can play NTSC. Both don't work on this TV, but work on other TVs. That's why I am trying find out what could be the
problem in the TV.




Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanm View Post
Try to check you menu settings again on your dvd player, your tv will probably not have a dual format
Well, it does. And it was working fine for 4+ years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanm View Post
and therefore won't be ntsc compatable being a crt,
What does being a CRT have to do with this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanm View Post
your dvd player will play back both ntsc and pal(also secam)
No - I know my DVD players. Neither of them have SECAM.
One of them has PAL, PAL60 & NTSC.
The other has NTSC & PAL60.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanm View Post
what dvd players do is trick the output to be like a pal signal if playing ntsc disc, this is the beauty of the digital age,
One of my DVD players doesn't have this beauty of the digital age. It outputs only NTSC & PAL60.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanm View Post
soon these formats will be out of date, pal is infact a considerably better format than ntsc and secam is one step ahead of pal, though only used in a handleful of countries.
Maybe - but as of now, something is wrong with my TV & I am trying to find out what.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 15:10   #12
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have you gone through this.
PAL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 23rd August 2009, 15:43   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
have you gone through this.
PAL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yes. Anything in particular you think would help me?
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Old 23rd August 2009, 15:52   #14
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read the section pal60.

how your TV managed to show pal60 before. its a mystery.
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Old 23rd August 2009, 17:40   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAlec View Post
read the section pal60.

how your TV managed to show pal60 before. its a mystery.
I don't see anything in that section which makes it a mystery.

As a matter of fact, I can still set my DVD players output to PAL-60 & see it fine on my neighbours 21 inch CRT TV.
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