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Old 1st October 2009, 13:00   #16
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one solution could be that there is some kind of sync up mechanism between the EIR and the GSMA database which will offline keep the data updated.
This is exactly what I meant and this is how i believe networks implement. As I worked on handset side so not very sure of the exact deployment architecture.

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and when u talk about PDP , GPRS procedures etc being robust, then its exactly the same when i mentioned the packet switched technology has better security mechanism than the circuit switched (aka GSM) networks. Also as of my last update IPSEC/IKE still remain one of the preferred methods of securing the UE to access point communication. Since i worked on this technolgy almost 2 years back, my info might be outdated. Can you let me know what is the latest technology currently?
PS secuirty in 3GPP/GPRS world is not exactly analogues to IPSec.

It is lot OT for automobile forum but just to conclude the discussion

Basic GPRS procedures do not mandate IPSEC as per 3GPP TS 24.008 . The authentication procedures is as per 3GPP TS 33.102. So the GPRS security is at a layer below IP , IP is actually bearer protocol and though Rel 5 onwards IPSEc is mandated for IMS domain none of the major operators in the Europe or USA actually implemented IPSec or mandated it ( at least till 2007)

Actually I am also out of touch of current tech ( 3GPP release 7 onwards ) . I started working on RRC implementation for rel 99 ( on UE side) then moved to other areas on UE implementation , Then to IMS ( was still in touch with 3GPP PS procedures because IMS ) but for last 3 year I am working on all together different area so no following up with further development in 3GPP.

But none of this is relevant in Indian context point is that Indian operators have not even implemented basic GSM procedures ( by avoiding EIR deployment)

Last edited by amitk26 : 1st October 2009 at 13:02.
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Old 1st October 2009, 13:17   #17
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PS secuirty in 3GPP/GPRS world is not exactly analogues to IPSec.

It is lot OT for automobile forum but just to conclude the discussion

Basic GPRS procedures do not mandate IPSEC as per 3GPP TS 24.008 .
Please note ,that i have never mentioned in my posts that it is "mandated," i have only mentioned that it is/was a "preferred" . Also I dont think the forum is averse to indepth technical discussion. There are numerous other non-automotive technical stuff that have been discussed before. So dont think it is a lot OT considering the thread that is being discussed here.
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Old 1st October 2009, 14:01   #18
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Please note ,that i have never mentioned in my posts that it is "mandated," i have only mentioned that it is/was a "preferred" . Also I dont think the forum is averse to indepth technical discussion. There are numerous other non-automotive technical stuff that have been discussed before. So dont think it is a lot OT considering the thread that is being discussed here.
GMS and UMTS CS and PS Authentication, Ciphering and Integrity procedures ( 3GPP 24.008 , GSM 4.18 , 25.331 and related specs) are in control plane and not in data plane, IPSec is a data plane security mechanism so the purpose of IPSec is entierly different from authentication and integrity checks provided by GSM / UMTS and they are not equivalent.
IPSec was mandated for IMS as per rel 5 spec as SIP signaling is on top of IP but in a 3G Network UE to GGSN link is already secured by UMTS / GPRS procedures in control plane so it is considered redundant and not implemented in all practical 3G PS networks , However if the other end is an IP network ( internet connected terminal) it would be required but generally an IPX is used in between.

However coming back to original discussion embedding IMEI in existing handsets is not a solution as government can not practically control the embedding centers , The only foolproof mechanism is to let the 10% handset owners of cheap Chinese handsets take a hit and switch to handsets with manufacturer provided IMEI.

In a long run either DOT / TRAI need to mandate GCF type certification for devices or introduce our own type certification mechanism to allow commercial sale/use of handsets in Indian market.
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