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Old 27th October 2009, 20:09   #16
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
Correct, it's the software that matters.

Also, RAID5 is not the best idea for backing up, it is for data availability 100% of the time. A RAID5 array can take the loss of one complete hard disk and yet not lose any data. However, 2 disks failing at the same time will cause complete data loss.
Any RAID level will not protect you from multiple disk failures. Since this is a backup solution and not a DB server or similar setup which needs to be online 24x7. chances of two hdd failing at the same time are very slim, unless the admin is very unlucky .

Now coming to the point. Yes the backup software needs to be chosen wisely. Any software that works for XP will work for server 2003 (you are lucky you don't have win 2000, which some of my clients are stuck with) .

there are many backup software. Best thing is some of them are totally free. some good commercial ones are by Acronis and symantec.
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Old 27th October 2009, 20:24   #17
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Any RAID level will not protect you from multiple disk failures. Since this is a backup solution and not a DB server or similar setup which needs to be online 24x7. chances of two hdd failing at the same time are very slim, unless the admin is very unlucky .
Absolutely, but if you are spending a packet on your backup solution, the last thing you want to do is leave it all to luck. Secondly, a busted RAID chipset will again mean having to hope that you will find another NAS of the same model and with the same chipset X years from now which can read the array. RAID is good for 24x7 availability, but I would not spend a single penny to use a RAID solution for backups.

Finally, if you buy multiple drives together to make an array, or the NAS boxes which would probably come with 4-8 drives from the same batch, there is a very good chance that 2 or more will fail simultaneously. As it is, each drive in a RAID array would go through roughly the same amount of reading/writing, so the wear&tear would be similar across all of them.

TLDR: I recommend tape/USB backups, preferably offsite and offline.
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Old 28th October 2009, 00:01   #18
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Thanks a ton. Will discuss this with the computer fellow tomorrow. Needs to be sorted out urgently.
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Old 28th October 2009, 02:48   #19
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
Absolutely, but if you are spending a packet on your backup solution, the last thing you want to do is leave it all to luck. Secondly, a busted RAID chipset will again mean having to hope that you will find another NAS of the same model and with the same chipset X years from now which can read the array. RAID is good for 24x7 availability, but I would not spend a single penny to use a RAID solution for backups.

Finally, if you buy multiple drives together to make an array, or the NAS boxes which would probably come with 4-8 drives from the same batch, there is a very good chance that 2 or more will fail simultaneously. As it is, each drive in a RAID array would go through roughly the same amount of reading/writing, so the wear&tear would be similar across all of them.

TLDR: I recommend tape/USB backups, preferably offsite and offline.
i differ on this, RAID is being used world over including almost all of my clients as a solution.

Hard disk are build pretty well. So if you think that read and write will spoil the HDD, than you are vaguely wrong. There may be a manufacturing failure, but that is one in million case, and that will show just after few months of usage.
Out of all these years in business, I had only three case of HDD failure in a NAS box. Twice due to idiots client who so much trusts his expensive imported solar inverter, and another one who is a cleanliness freak whose servant cleans in and around NAS box table while its working vigorously.

Hard disk fail mainly due to power surge and sudden interruption during the read/write process aka Power failure. Hence I guess USB are more susceptible to failure, due to sudden power surge through it. USB do transport a heavy amperage 5volt to the device on the first pin of the four pin jack. also most of the time user forgets to 'safely remove the device' thingy.

I would still say old school tape drive are best for backup and mission critical data. but it has its own limitation, discussing which is out of scope of this thread.

Last edited by SirAlec : 28th October 2009 at 02:49.
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Old 28th October 2009, 03:17   #20
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Hi FlyingSpur

Any 1 TB Harddisk ( External or Internal) will be compatible with 2003 Server OS. Make sure when you format the harddisk its formatted in NTFS File system for better security features than Fat 32.
If you are looking for inexpensive solution go for an internal harddisk and a data connector (usb) which can be used just as an external harddisk and saves you some ready cash.
I Suggest to go with Seagate above 7800 RPM which will make files read / write faster.
Based on your requirements you may have to plan backup policies on your server available with windows 2003 OS or using third party softwares to backup data in regular intervals.
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Old 28th October 2009, 11:24   #21
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Such type of queries remind me of one of my favourite pictures. I actually have it on my desk at work.

Name:  tree_swing_development_requirements.jpg
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Size:  86.9 KB

Just be careful with what solution you go with.
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Old 29th October 2009, 11:14   #22
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Flyingspur,

I cannot recommend secondcopy enough to you. Have been using this light, simple and straight-forward backup software since over 5 years now. Not a single glitch.
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Old 29th October 2009, 15:07   #23
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I second StreetAddict on that. Please dont go in for External Harddrives for backup. It may be cheap, but you will be having an external data store that can give up anytime.
Oi. I was referring not to go for external assembled hard drives (A Desktop/laptop drive in an after-market casing). I recommended the drives which are made portable from the manufacturer!


@flyingspur: How critical is the data you are trying to backup? Looking at a budget of 5-7k for 1 TB of hard drive makes me think that it is not so critical. It would be helpful if you can disclose the nature of data. After that, we could zero down to what you need. A NAS device, a tape drive or a simple external drive & the software required (No offense meant to anyone)
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Old 29th October 2009, 15:59   #24
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Oi. I was referring not to go for external assembled hard drives (A Desktop/laptop drive in an after-market casing). I recommended the drives which are made portable from the manufacturer!
Yup I understood that.

Quote:
@flyingspur: How critical is the data you are trying to backup? Looking at a budget of 5-7k for 1 TB of hard drive makes me think that it is not so critical. It would be helpful if you can disclose the nature of data. After that, we could zero down to what you need. A NAS device, a tape drive or a simple external drive & the software required (No offense meant to anyone)
It is critical in the sense that if the data is lost, all the work done and drawings will be lost ! I suppose it's not so much of confidential data, but its preservation is very important. It's a professional firm (architects). Could you tell me more about NAS drives, and the costs involved?
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:35   #25
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Originally Posted by flyingspur View Post
I suppose it's not so much of confidential data, but its preservation is very important.
Do you need to transport the data from one place to another? If yes, external drive makes more sense. Otherwise, get 2/3 internal hard drives & connect them in RAID 1/3/5 and use them just for backup. NAS device would be an overkill.

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Could you tell me more about NAS drives, and the costs involved?
NAS stands for Network attached storage. As the name suggests, a NAS device takes backup over the network. More details can be found here : Network-attached storage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Havn't used a NAS device myself but other members might be able to help you in it's pricing.
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Old 30th October 2009, 11:40   #26
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Do you need to transport the data from one place to another? If yes, external drive makes more sense. Otherwise, get 2/3 internal hard drives & connect them in RAID 1/3/5 and use them just for backup. NAS device would be an overkill.
This sounds interesting. Could you explain in a little more detail?

Quote:
NAS stands for Network attached storage. As the name suggests, a NAS device takes backup over the network. More details can be found here : Network-attached storage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Havn't used a NAS device myself but other members might be able to help you in it's pricing.
My computer guy was talking about NAS too. I'll discuss it in detail with him.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 30th October 2009 at 11:43.
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Old 30th October 2009, 14:24   #27
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Using RAID as a backup method is not the smartest thing to do. It boggles my mind as to how people can recommend a RAID array for backups. Store one copy away from your regular backups, you will thank me someday. Good luck with the backups.
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Old 30th October 2009, 15:27   #28
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Originally Posted by flyingspur View Post
This sounds interesting. Could you explain in a little more detail?
More on RAID can be found here : RAID - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 30th October 2009, 15:31   #29
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
It boggles my mind as to how people can recommend a RAID array for backups.
+1. RAID is not a backup solution its a failover setup.

@flyingspur: How much data(in MB, GB) will be backed up each day, take that into consideration too.
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Old 1st November 2009, 09:26   #30
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Originally Posted by pranavt View Post
Using RAID as a backup method is not the smartest thing to do. It boggles my mind as to how people can recommend a RAID array for backups. Store one copy away from your regular backups, you will thank me someday. Good luck with the backups.
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Originally Posted by Spitfire View Post
+1. RAID is not a backup solution its a failover setup.

@flyingspur: How much data(in MB, GB) will be backed up each day, take that into consideration too.
Reading too much theory are we?. If i stick to what i have learned I would be in a grave fix. hence from what i have found is that RAID on a NAS is much fool proof than USB HDDs practically in real world scenario.



Please read the fine print please!, Did i say RAID arrays in a PC (i would be a fool to recommend that). I said NAS box configured as a raid5. (which is just like an external HDD, but connected to your network, hence available to all the machine connected to the LAN depending upon security/rights you have implemented.

Pros
1. Always available throughout the network. Can be used to back data from any workstation.

2. More Secure. USB hdd are less secure.

3. What if you drop the portable USB drive. NAS box will sit in a corner, if even droped and if a single HDD fails you will recover the lost data. As i have said before you must be very unlucky to loose two hdd in a single go.

Cons.
1. Expensive

Last edited by SirAlec : 1st November 2009 at 09:33.
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