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Old 20th April 2010, 18:17   #31
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What is this recharge business? I have Voltas Splits and cassettes running 24x7 for 3-4 years non-stop except for routine cleaning. Gas doesn't leak outside of Noida I suppose?
Me too! I have a General AC that runs about 16 hours a day and another General AC that runs about 4 hours a day. I have never had to recharge gas even once in about 5 years. Just routine maintenance as per AMC. I did have to recharge the gas in my M800 after 4 years though.
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Old 20th April 2010, 20:04   #32
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People never cease to amuse me, with the length they will go to boost their earnings.

Tanveer, you need to take a very strong stance here. It's not just about scamming for money. I am disgusted at how much freon these guys have released in the environment to fill their pockets.

EDIT: first step would be to enquire about the certification these guys have for handling refrigerants. And potential dangers they carry.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 20th April 2010 at 20:09.
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Old 20th April 2010, 21:23   #33
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this means in the AC business, Voltas is better!

even i have 5 Voltas split units in my house & none of them have shown any such problems. occasional filter cleaning is all that is required.
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Old 20th April 2010, 22:45   #34
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I've Samsung 1.5ton Window A.C. using it almost 12+ hours since last 5 yrs. during summers, Never needed to Top-up Gas.
However the unit is services every year but without touching Gas as the mechanic I've is very generous, May be i referred him to atleast 10-15 people so he's never interested in making False money.

My other A.C. 1T split from Onida is approx 3 yrs. but used less frequently, but never needed gas refill, even when once i got it removed for few months due to house repaid, and my mech. was able to save all Gas in A.C. itself while removing the copper cooling lines.

My oldest A.C. is Godrej,1.5T window, its around 10 yrs old. Used Heavily till last 4 yrs. Never been topped up. but it still runs too cool whenever we need it for any additional family member.


So what I feel is with so many examples of Gas working fine for more than 5 yr. or even 10 years, its more of a money making trick than Service to You and your A.C.
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Old 21st April 2010, 10:47   #35
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
If gas leakage is due to corrosion, what is the point of gas charging without changing the evaporator/cooling coil? And if corrosion is the cause, the co. should be replacing the parts...
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Originally Posted by sonirohit View Post
that's exactly what these guys do - they will detect the leak in the coil using compressed nitrogen. once that's identified they do brazing to fill in the joint, the problem is that at times the coils corrode in multiple places - you repair one leak, after a month another leak surfaces and the gas leaks out...
...by and large corrosion is a major spoilsport for Noida's A/Cs.
Had an extensive discussion on the issue with this AC specialist friend last evening over the matter.

It appears that corrosion is indeed a major issue in a few areas of Delhi (such as Def. Col., Laxmi Nagar) and Noida, where houses are situated alongside open sewage drains. This often leads to the need to condemn AC units after 3-5 years, or replace the cooling & evaporator coils after this period.

The common features in this kind of scenario are
  • an all-pervading offensive stench from the drain, which prevents you from keeping your windows open.
  • corrosion of the copper pipes showing up as blackish discolouration on the pipes.
  • gas leakage complaints (usually from the joints - the pipes don't show perforation, just blackening) after the first year or two of operation.
As Rohit mentioned, the gas commonly leaks from the brazen joints between the pipes, and the repair is done using solder in the particular leak - but a fresh leak can spring up thereafter. Since the manufacturers are aware of this widespread problem, they try to repair and not replace the coils, to tide over the warranty period - after that the customer is on his own. The choice after this is between replacing the whole AC unit or the condenser and evaporator coils (the compressor and fans are not usually affected).

The friend advises that in a situation such as this, a locally assembled AC functions better because of the coils being of a heavier gauge, and the joints being over-soldered at the time of assembly, keeping the corrosion factor in mind.

@Tanveer: In light of the above information, you may or may not be facing a scam, depending on the location of your house, and whether there really is visible corrosion on the copper pipes. Your feedback on this after checking your units (and sniffing the air carefully ) please.
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
...take out the all the gas from the system and refill with gas from other cylinder, And charge for full gas saying previous gas is of no use. Unlike this most company authorised car service centers have a machine sucks out all the gas and refills the same gas, Adds some more gas if required. They charge only for additional gas filled.
That's a problem with all the AC mechanics in the unorganized sector. They do not have refrigerant recycling equipment, so release the gas into the atmosphere (thank goodness it's mostly CFC-free now), and fill fresh gas. So the savings you have in terms of labour costs are partially offset by the cost of gas. As I mentioned earlier, the quantity of gas has to be closely measured (weight / quantity), else an overfilling will result in the compressor going kaput.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 21st April 2010 at 10:49.
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Old 21st April 2010, 10:50   #36
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Well we are privileged enough to live on the river bank in noida. the water has the color of Pangong Tso(at night that is).
As for sniffing, it bothered for the first month, after that the nose has adapted, and not its a deodorant.
So it is a scam. Samsung never told us that we should not buy their AC if we live next to the river.
This is cheating on part of manufacturer.
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Old 21st April 2010, 10:56   #37
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Well we are privileged enough to live on the river bank in noida. the water has the color of Pangong Tso(at night that is).
As for sniffing, it bothered for the first month, after that the nose has adapted, and not its a deodorant.
So it is a scam. Samsung never told us that we should not buy their AC if we live next to the river.
This is cheating on part of manufacturer.
Ha..ha...

About 8 years ago, I bought a flat in Kanchenjunga Apartments in Sec. 53, but the stench was so strong that I had to sell it within a month :-(

\N
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Old 21st April 2010, 11:20   #38
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Window ACs never. Have you ever recharged your refrigerator? Splits almost never unless there is a leak. Must be a big scam going on.
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Old 21st April 2010, 11:31   #39
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No its not a scam. We have an open drain near our house as well and the chemical gases emanating from it cause corrosion in the copper tubes as rightly pointed out by ss_traveller. Even we have to refill A/C gas every year. I have now painted the joints with a black paint as advised by the engineer.
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Old 21st April 2010, 11:49   #40
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^ If its corroded tubing, you can easily SEE it (while getting it repaired/replaced)

Besides a copper based alloy getting corroded, ppl must be living amongst acid fumes!

Last edited by alpha1 : 21st April 2010 at 11:50.
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Old 21st April 2010, 12:57   #41
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Three days ago one of my window units (LG - 5 years old) stopped cooling suddenly. It would start cooling but after about 5-10 minutes, the unit would make a shudddering noise and the cooling would be gone. I switched off the unit and switched it on again after a little while and it repeated the same sequence. I remember just about a month ago when I was getting it serviced, the mechanic had told me that the unit is leaking gas slightly and that I should run it as long as it holds and then get it refilled.

I got it refilled on Monday and paid him Rs. 1,800/- for it. It ran fine for a day and now again last night, the same sequence was repeated. Now I am seriously contemplating foul play. Did the mechanic purposefully create a leak to earn more business while he was servicing my unit? We have never had to refill gas in any of our units before (whether window or split).

Last edited by nkapoor777 : 21st April 2010 at 12:59.
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Old 21st April 2010, 13:16   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
No its not a scam.
...open drain... cause corrosion in the copper tubes...
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
^ If its corroded tubing, you can easily SEE it (while getting it repaired/replaced)
Yes, you can see the corrosion.
Name:  coppercorrosion1.jpg
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Size:  36.5 KB

Your outdoor electrical connections nearby will also show up corrosion like this...
Name:  coppercorrosion2.jpg
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Size:  34.3 KB
Quote:
Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
I have now painted the joints with a black paint as advised by the engineer.
Should reduce the corrosion rate to some extent. Can't paint the whole pipe though, because that would ruin the heat exchange properties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
Besides a copper based alloy getting corroded, ppl must be living amongst acid fumes!
Yes, indeed!
Quote:
Excessive turbulence, industrial waste, sewage, or otherwise polluted waters are additional factors that influence the corrosion behavior of copper alloys...
From http://www.copper.org/applications/p...ndl_appns.html
All this research was an eye-opener for me too!

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 21st April 2010 at 13:23.
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Old 21st April 2010, 14:28   #43
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I believe there is a problem in particular sectors of Noida only. For example, when I used to stay in Sector 15A, the gas leaking problem used to be plenty due to the nallah being close by. Same in Sector 36. However, now that I've shifted to Sector 93A, no such issues. Some mechanics offer a coating service to prevent corrosion. Maybe you should check that out.
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Old 21st April 2010, 15:46   #44
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If it is indeed copper corrosion, I think its time to move out, you may be breathing poison or acid (not the trippy LSD)
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Old 21st April 2010, 18:06   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntomer View Post
Ha..ha...

About 8 years ago, I bought a flat in Kanchenjunga Apartments in Sec. 53, but the stench was so strong that I had to sell it within a month :-(

\N
I have lived in Kanchenjunga apartments, the smell is really intolerable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
That's a problem with all the AC mechanics in the unorganized sector. They do not have refrigerant recycling equipment, so release the gas into the atmosphere (thank goodness it's mostly CFC-free now), and fill fresh gas. So the savings you have in terms of labour costs are partially offset by the cost of gas. As I mentioned earlier, the quantity of gas has to be closely measured (weight / quantity), else an overfilling will result in the compressor going kaput.
I suspect the amount of gas the unorganised mechanics(Maybe untrained too) fill, they keep the hand near the vent with AC on with the car revving, they get to know the amount of gas required by just the feel of cool air.

The result is either too less or too much gas leading to damage to AC system, thats when they offer to fix the system cheaply by some jugaad.... and the never ending vicious cycle begins.

Last edited by .anshuman : 21st April 2010 at 18:08.
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