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Old 21st September 2016, 12:20   #2776
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
However to Navin's comment on the switch.
If your reverse the connections , would it be possible to achieve this without shorting out either Amp ?
Short Answer: No.

Draw the schematic and you will see. Remember the switch as a A+B option too.
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:29   #2777
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Short Answer: No.

Draw the schematic and you will see. Remember the switch as a A+B option too.
Now I am curious why it will not work as long as you do not use A+B. Not good at electronics schematic.
The power rating of this switch is very less at 10W. So it is still not useful for powering the speakers.
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Old 21st September 2016, 12:50   #2778
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
Now I am curious why it will not work as long as you do not use A+B. Not good at electronics schematic.
The power rating of this switch is very less at 10W. So it is still not useful for powering the speakers.
Because most likely in a Rotary switch the A+B connection will be shorting the common (they only switch the hot, at least RadioShack used to do that).

Anyway I got to thinking because I knew I had seen this a long time ago and I remembered a company called Russound that used to make switching for speakers in the 80s. I actually had a 10 speaker switch back then (don't ask, I was quite mad). Seems like they are still in business. Check this link.
https://russound.com/component/edocm...wnload?Itemid=
The OP then connects the CD player to the Cambridge and all multi channel sources to the AVR and voila.

Hope this helps.

OT: remember switches like these eventually oxidize, hence I prefer the 'switchless' option suggested earlier. Thanks.

Last edited by navin : 21st September 2016 at 12:55.
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Old 21st September 2016, 18:16   #2779
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Anyway I got to thinking because I knew I had seen this a long time ago ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
Now I am curious why it will not work as long as you do not use A+B. ....
@Navin, got what you mean.

However on a parallel note and maybe just to
What this guy says here in the bi-amping context does not seem to make any sense.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1RdSGkC...ped-power.aspx
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Old 21st September 2016, 18:17   #2780
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Hold on. That Switch box is a speaker selector switch NOT an amplifier selector switch. It is designed to be used for choosing speaker A, speaker B or speaker A+B from a SINGLE amplifier.

So this will NOT work.
Saw this....so I waited...

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
Guys, Bi-Amping is for powering your high frequencies and Low frequencies with seperate amplifier/circuit. This will not serve Naveenroy's purpose.

The top speaker binding posts power your high frequencies. The lower posts power your low frequencies. So if you remove the connect your amp only to top binding post, all you hear would be sound from the tweeter and vice versa for the woofer and lower binding posts.
Saw this too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post

i.e. where it says Speaker A and Speaker B you hook the 2 amps
Amp1 +/- to speaker source A
Amp2 +/- to speaker source B

The Input you just connect to
Left speaker +/-
Right speaker +/-

And use the Switch controller only on A or B (Never both A and B)
Would this work ? it would still link the circuit ?
Didn't understand any of this

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Short Answer: No.
But this cleared up that doubt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Anyway I got to thinking because I knew I had seen this a long time ago and I remembered a company called Russound that used to make switching for speakers in the 80s. I actually had a 10 speaker switch back then (don't ask, I was quite mad). Seems like they are still in business.
Yes, this seems perfect and looks like it is still available from the US. I will check it out.

Thanks for all the help guys, no harm done. I hadn't gone and fried any of my speakers so no worries
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Old 21st September 2016, 19:13   #2781
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Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
@Navin, got what you mean.

However on a parallel note and maybe just to
What this guy says here in the bi-amping context does not seem to make any sense.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1RdSGkC...ped-power.aspx
This is how I am using my setup. What you are basically doing is using two different circuits of your amplifier to power your high and low frequencies of your speaker.

Lets say you have a 7.1 channel amplifier which can power 7 set of speakers at 100watts each and you have 5 channel speakers. So atleast in theory you have 700watts of power available from your amplifier but you will effectively be using only 500w from your amplifier.

In this case, you now have 2x100 watts of amp power not being used. If your front speaker is capable of bi-amping, you use this available power to bi-amp your speaker. So you connect your front channel out to High freq binding post on your speaker and surround channel out to low freq binding post of your speaker. Now you have to configure your amp to tell that you have bi-amped your front speaker so that the amp will set the appropriate crossovers and send the proper frequencies to correct terminals. Now in this setup, you theoretically have 100watts to power your front highs and 100watts to front woofers making total power of 200watts to each front speaker from a 100w amplifier.

In theory the above numbers might seem great, but in actual setup you will get 10 to 30% additional power for your speakers if you bi-amp using this method in an AVR.

Last edited by Holyghost : 21st September 2016 at 19:14.
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Old 21st September 2016, 22:22   #2782
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Guys,

What rear speakers should I use? The sub & center speaker are already finalised.

In some situations, I would like to keep the rear speakers permanently on too (not just for surround effects). Reason being, the room is long and the seats are right in the middle. So, it'll be nice to have sound filling up the room.

Thanks!
Take a look at Polk Audio OWM3/OWM5 too. Designed to be surround speakers and one of the best near field speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
Guys, I have a Cambridge Audio stereo amp lying idle at home since I invested in a Pioneer AVR. However, I miss the CA amp for stereo - it was sweet sounding. The AVR doesn't have pre-outs for the speakers - so there is no way to wire the speakers to the stereo amp through the AVR. Is there any other way to do it - some switch or something? Where can I get such a device if there is one?
Try this. Get another pair of speaker wire and 4 pairs of banana plugs. So what you have is 2 pairs of speaker wires all ended with banana plugs. One pair of speaker wire comes to the speakers from your AVR and the other pair from your stereo amp. Mark the wires to clearly show which amp they are representing. When you use the AVR plug that wire to the speaker and when you want to use the stereo amp, remove the AVR wire banana plugs and put in the stereo amp banana plugs.

You dont need any expensive switch or device or risking both amps coming on at the same time, etc. YOU will be switch. Banana plugs are fairly easy to plug in and plug out. Give it a thought, this hack is at work in a number of homes. What you will miss is a Sub when in stereo mode. Ideally for music one does not need a sub, however, if you have one with speaker level inputs, then you can loop in the sub too. LFE from AVR to SUB. Speaker level inputs to SUB and Speaker level outputs from sub to speaker. Now if your sub has a cross over, you could fiddle with that too.

MaSh

Last edited by mashmash : 21st September 2016 at 22:38.
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Old 21st September 2016, 22:27   #2783
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by naveenroy View Post
Guys, I have a Cambridge Audio stereo amp lying idle at home since I invested in a Pioneer AVR. However, I miss the CA amp for stereo - it was sweet sounding. The AVR doesn't have pre-outs for the speakers - so there is no way to wire the speakers to the stereo amp through the AVR. Is there any other way to do it - some switch or something? Where can I get such a device if there is one?
If you have a Tape Out on the AVR you could try this:

1. Connect source to AVR.
2. AVR Tape Out to CA. The tape out is a fixed volume before the preamp section of the AVR so you have control of volume with the volume knob on the CA.
3a Separate sets of speaker wires from the AVR and the CA to your speakers which you will have to physically switch depending on HT or stereo.
3b Separate sets of speaker wires into a 2 into 1 speaker switching box. One set of speaker wires from the box to your speakers.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 08:34   #2784
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by Holyghost View Post
This is how I am using my setup. What you are basically doing is using two different circuits of your amplifier to power your high and low frequencies of your speaker.

Lets say you have a 7.1 channel amplifier which can power 7 set of speakers at 100watts each and you have 5 channel speakers. So atleast in theory you have 700watts of power available from your amplifier but you will effectively be using only 500w from your amplifier.

In this case, you now have 2x100 watts of amp power not being used. If your front speaker is capable of bi-amping, you use this available power to bi-amp your speaker. So you connect your front channel out to High freq binding post on your speaker and surround channel out to low freq binding post of your speaker. Now you have to configure your amp to tell that you have bi-amped your front speaker so that the amp will set the appropriate crossovers and send the proper frequencies to correct terminals. Now in this setup, you theoretically have 100watts to power your front highs and 100watts to front woofers making total power of 200watts to each front speaker from a 100w amplifier.

In theory the above numbers might seem great, but in actual setup you will get 10 to 30% additional power for your speakers if you bi-amp using this method in an AVR.
The power distribution math is fine.
But wont this mean that

1. You are routing the Front L/R channels to the top 2 binders of your speakers = which effectively means that only the Tweeter would be used to output the signal ?

2. You are routing the 6th L/R channels to the bottom 2 binders of your speakers = the midrange and woofer would be used to output the signal ?

Majority of the frequencies would be from the Front L/R channel whereas the 6th channel would have a comparatively small spectrum of the overall audio content assigned.

Not sure how good this would sound.

Unless the internal speaker circuit is such that all 3 speakers components are connected to both the input binders, and the frequency is split via a crossover accepting input from both binders i.e.
All low frequency from both channels > woofer
All mid frequency from both channels > Midrange
All high frequencies from both channels > tweeter.

So you effectively hear all the sounds..

From a Stereo mode point of view does not seem to addd any value.

From a Home Theater setup also does not seem to add much value, because the 6th channel would be reserved for surround effects which should ideally be from the rear not front firing.

Note: My response is in context to the example quoted by the article written above which suggests using bi-amping for 2 different channels.
Same channel with 2 amps makes sense.

Last edited by Fillmore : 22nd September 2016 at 08:41.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 08:53   #2785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
The power distribution math is fine.
But wont this mean that

1. You are routing the Front L/R channels to the top 2 binders of your speakers = which effectively means that only the Tweeter would be used to output the signal ?

2. You are routing the 6th L/R channels to the bottom 2 binders of your speakers = the midrange and woofer would be used to output the signal ?

Majority of the frequencies would be from the Front L/R channel whereas the 6th channel would have a comparatively small spectrum of the overall audio content assigned.
This is a feature of the avr and the avr has to support bi-amping. (Most 7 channel AVRs support this). Once you select bi-amp setting in your AVR, the 6th and 7th channel will output FL and FR channels instead of surround channels.

Last edited by Holyghost : 22nd September 2016 at 08:57.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 10:48   #2786
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by mashmash View Post
You dont need any expensive switch or device or risking both amps coming on at the same time, etc. YOU will be switch.
You have to be very, very conscious when you do this. It will work if you are.

One mistake and the amp is on but not connected to the speakers and those banana plugs touch and ka-boom. Blown amp. Unless the OP covers the banana plugs with some plastic cap this is asking for too much care on a regular basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
If you have a Tape Out on the AVR you could try this:

1. Connect source to AVR.
2. AVR Tape Out to CA.
3a Separate sets of speaker wires from the AVR and the CA to your speakers which you will have to physically switch depending on HT or stereo.
3b Separate sets of speaker wires into a 2 into 1 speaker switching box. One set of speaker wires from the box to your speakers.
As long as the speaker switching box does not have A+B option this is good or some boxes use 4PDT switches which switch hot and common then that works too. Cheap switch boxes keep common connected to both speakers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fillmore View Post
1. You are routing the Front L/R channels to the top 2 binders of your speakers = which effectively means that only the Tweeter would be used to output the signal ?

2. You are routing the 6th L/R channels to the bottom 2 binders of your speakers = the midrange and woofer would be used to output the signal ?

Majority of the frequencies would be from the Front L/R channel whereas the 6th channel would have a comparatively small spectrum of the overall audio content assigned.

Unless the internal speaker circuit is such that all 3 speakers components are connected to both the input binders, and the frequency is split via a crossover accepting input from both binders i.e.
All low frequency from both channels > woofer
All mid frequency from both channels > Midrange
All high frequencies from both channels > tweeter.

So you effectively hear all the sounds..

From a Stereo mode point of view does not seem to addd any value. .
It all depends. I call this passive biamping as you don't get all the benefits of biamping (since all 4 channels of the amplifier handle all the music). The one benefit you do get is about 3db more headroom.

If you are using a 3 way and the mid and hf use channels 6-7 and the woofer uses channels 1-2 (surrounds use channels 3-4) then it can work.

Mid crossover frequency is around 300hz (if you look at the energy spectrum of music, 300hz is about the half way point where half the energy is above 300hz and half below).

Almost all dynamic speakers sold commercially today use parallel crossover networks hence in almost all of these speakers "all 3 speakers components are connected to both the input binders". see pic.

When you are using 4 channels of the amplifier to drive the woofer and mid/hf sections you wil disconnect the woofer section from the mid/hf section on your 4 way binding posts. (see those pink links).

Hope this helps.

Last edited by navin : 18th April 2017 at 11:01.
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Old 22nd September 2016, 11:39   #2787
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Originally Posted by mashmash View Post
Take a look at Polk Audio OWM3/OWM5 too. Designed to be surround speakers and one of the best near field speakers.
Thanks! But I guess the FXI A4 is rated better?

Here's what I've finalised. Should be arriving today / tomorrow with install planned for this weekend. Looks good?

FXI A4 Surround
TSX 250 C
RSW PRO660 subwoofer
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Old 22nd September 2016, 12:04   #2788
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Thanks! But I guess the FXI A4 is rated better?

FXI A4 Surround
TSX 250 C
RSW PRO660 subwoofer
Good choice Rush the A4 and A6 (it's slightly bigger brother) come with all the hardware for wall mounting. With the TS220 bookshelf speakers you would have to get something like this.
http://www.pinpointmounts.com/AM-21_...unt_Black.html
or this
http://www.displaymountpro.com/Produ...acket_494.html
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Old 23rd September 2016, 21:14   #2789
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

Hello Guys, I need serious/urgent help from you. I wanted to buy FXI A4 surround but seller here said that my Denon AVR X520BT will not be able to play them. He said that there might be chances my amp or speaker will be blown. He was forcing me to buy Denon AVR X1200 to drive FXI A4. He also suggested me to buy Woofer 110 first than go for FXI A4.

I am having feeling that he is more interested in selling me Receiver than speaker.

Is it true that 520BT has not enough power to play FXI A4? My current setup is Denon 520BT and Polk 440.

Whatever review I read for FXI A4 online, I am very desperate to buy them but do not want my receiver or speaker to be blown.
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Old 24th September 2016, 11:42   #2790
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Default Re: The Home Theater thread

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Is it true that 520BT has not enough power to play FXI A4? My current setup is Denon 520BT and Polk 440.

Whatever review I read for FXI A4 online, I am very desperate to buy them but do not want my receiver or speaker to be blown.
The 520BT is an entry level AVR. It will not have the same authority that the X1200 will have. As long as you do not play too loud the 520BT can technically drive the FXI A4.

Remember that the 520 should not be played so loud that it clips. When an amplifier clips it produces a lot of high frequency energy and this energy can blow a tweeter without warning. This is your only limitation. Hope this helps.
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