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Old 7th November 2008, 15:48   #601
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Originally Posted by reignofchaos View Post

@filmore and redfire: Buy a speaker for the sound and not the number of drivers or x-way crossover. I personally listen to a lot of rock/metal and had a 50k floorstander earlier. I upgraded to a 100k bookshelf from it because I felt it did everything better. Do not just write off two way speakers simply because they look small. Its much easier to get a great sounding 2-way than a 3-way or x-way for the same money.
It depends.
When you are looking at 1L budget speakers then speakers at this price are in a different league altogether and should definitely sound great.

But on an average going by logistics, A single speaker cannot handle all frequencies, that's the reason in a 3 way setup you have a tweeter which is best equipped to handle high frequencies, a midrange best suited for vocals and instruments and a woofer for low frequencies. Based on the frequency band the active cross-over driver would distribute the signal to the appropriate speaker.

But agree with you, it all boils down to what sounds best to your ears. Just listen to the speakers and go with whatever you like.
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Old 7th November 2008, 16:17   #602
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Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
I just purchased a Samsung 40" 650 LCD TV. I am looking for a Home Theater (HT) with a budget of around 20-30k. It should be able to provide a HD interface. I am not too well versed with HT systems as I have not done enough research myself yet. What are the parameters I should be considering while buying a HT system?

At present, I have a 8 year old Sony HT, which sounds alright, but just alright. I heard some HTs while shopping for the TV at my neighbourhood Sony showroom, but I was not too impressed with what Sony had at offer. I have heard that Onkyo and Yamaha have some good models in that range. Any recommendations to me?

I plan to watch a lot of Planet earth and some Nat Geo DVDs in addition to action movies.
Deepakhon:

For a 20-30k budget, I hear that the Onkyo S-3100 HT system is a good one. The S-3105 is now the updated model available. I think it is priced somewhere between 20k and 30k. It does not have a DVD player I think. I have personally seen this system on display at the Onkyo showroom here about 2-3 months back, and it looked good. I was more interested in the higher end model, S-5100 though which costs around 44k. The S-5100 is a 7.1 system with HDMI etc. Very powerful too.
You can check out the S-3105 on the Onkyo India website using this link:

ONKYO SIGHT & SOUND INDIA

Quick specs on the S-3105:

120W RMS per channel
Full black system
HDMI switching (3 inputs, 1 output)
Doly Digital 5.1 / DTS 5.1 decoding
Speaker A/B drive - so you can use it as a music system with 2 pairs of stereo speakers

You can also check out the ProFX Fusion 5 speaker system. If you're looking for a full home theatre package (with A/V receiver, speakers, subwoofer etc) then the current deal as mentioned previously by me would be the 38k package for a Denon AVR 1509 receiver and the ProFX Fusion 5 speaker system. The speaker system is available in black too and looks really good. I would suggest you go to the ProFX showroom and have a demo on this. I plan to do the same this weekend here in Chennai.

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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Hi Gurus

I have just bought the PV80 and now amp - an old Yamaha AX400 - needs an upgrade.

I was thinking of the Denon 1909. Most reviewers seem to think this is a shade better than the well regarded Onkyo 606.

I also need inputs on the speakers - a cheap and best option - wharfadales?? or is the ProFX Fusion series any good?

VSG - are you sure they are giving BOTH for 38 k? I saw on their website that this is worth 24 & 40 respectively!

Let me recommend you upgrade the Amp to the next in line - Denon 1909 - this will give you a lot of video upscaling facilities - you can upscale alll of your SD content (cable/Dvd etc) to full HD!!
kb100:

Wow. The Denon AVR 1909 is listed at 43k on the ProFX website. If you have that kind of budget, then you can go in for it. There are also equally good ones in Yamaha and Onkyo. The Audio People at Chennai (Welcome to The Audio People : Chennai Premiere high - end hi-fi Shop) has a good range of receivers - Pioneer, Yamaha etc and for as low as 24k. Even the lowest model in Yamaha is a 5.1 Dolby/DTS receiver with HDMI switching. Features wise Yamaha is really good for the price. Pioneer is also good, but slightly higher priced. You can check on the website or you can contact them if you have The Audio People in your city (in case you're not in Chennai). You can check out the exact model numbers from the Yamaha/Pioneer Singapore or Australia websites for comparison. U can then get the prices from The Audio People.

I am also inclined towards the ProFX Fusion 5 system as it looks good and the specs are quite good too. Planning to have a demo of the same this weekend here in Chennai at the ProFX showroom. Suggest that you take a demo too, to check out this system.

Yes, kb100. They are offering the Denon AVR 1509 with the ProFX Fusion 5 speaker system TOGETHER for 38k. Since ProFX is their own brand, they say that they are able to give good discounts on the speakers. But not in the case of the Denon receivers, since they are fully imported. Verified and checked with a senior person in the ProFX showroom here too. So it's authentic info indeed. Not sure whether if you buy just the Fusion % speaker system alone, you would get the discounted price though.

As for the AVR 1909, it's too expensive man. I don't think I can afford 43k for just the receiver alone. This 38k itself is stretching it quite a bit for me, since on top of this I have to get a good upscaling DVD player like the Pioneer DV 610. Once I get an upscaling DVD player, I don't need the upscaling in the receiver anyway. And I don't plan to upscale the output from my TATA Sky box - it's not DVD quality as they claim it to be. I have seen real standard definition set top boxes in Australia and I've seen full HD set top boxes too, with real SD and HD programming. TATA Sky now is probably what the western countries would have had 10 years back. Long way to go in India.

If I decide to go in for the Sony PS3 for blu ray capability + gaming in one unit, I will go for a simpler HTiB system from one of the brands like Onkyo for 20-25k max. This way for the same 45k, I can have blu ray as well as a reasonably good 5.1 system. The AVR 1709 is next after the 1509, and is not much different except for an extra HDMI input and higher wattage.
In the end, I guess affordability decides what we get !!!

Last edited by VSG12777 : 7th November 2008 at 16:18. Reason: included an updated model number for the Onkyo
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Old 7th November 2008, 17:12   #603
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Originally Posted by VSG12777 View Post

You can also check out the ProFX Fusion 5 speaker system. If you're looking for a full home theatre package (with A/V receiver, speakers, subwoofer etc) then the current deal as mentioned previously by me would be the 38k package for a Denon AVR 1509 receiver and the ProFX Fusion 5 speaker system. The speaker system is available in black too and looks really good. I would suggest you go to the ProFX showroom and have a demo on this. I plan to do the same this weekend here in Chennai.

Makes sense

Please do take that demo and post your views. And while you are there also find out what the same package with the 1909 would cost. I am told the 1909 is available for 36k etc at some places.
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Old 7th November 2008, 17:22   #604
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Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Makes sense

Please do take that demo and post your views. And while you are there also find out what the same package with the 1909 would cost. I am told the 1909 is available for 36k etc at some places.
Sure kb100, I shall do that and post back or PM you. For just the receiver alone, you can check other places which sell these hifi stuff (imported ones) just to compare prices. Shall get back to you on this soon.
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Old 7th November 2008, 18:04   #605
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Originally Posted by VSG12777 View Post
Hi Jassi

Yes, I saw these original Blu Ray disc titles by Sony on sale at Odyssey/Landmark last weekend for Rs. 899/- per movie. Not all of them were latest titles, but many good ones were on sale like SWAT, etc. The price printed on the back of the blu ray disc box was Rs. 1799/- though. These guys were probably pushing them off for half the price.

As for the PS3, well I agree that for 24k it's a steal but the higher end version is more expensive right ? And I read that blu ray movie quality on the PS3 wasn't as good as standalone players. Is this so ? How much worse is it on the PS3 compared to standalone blu ray players ? Another thing is, a separate remote has to be purchased for blu ray movie menu functionality etc. Just like DVD player remotes for us to navigate thru chapters, titles etc. But, overall it does seem to be a good deal. If it can play blu ray movies almost as well as standalone blu ray players I seriously don't mind giving this unit a shot.

Can the PS3 play DivX/WMV/WMA etc as well ? JPGs ? MP3s ? I shall anyway check this out on the net for more info.

For the rest of the audio system I have described (with the PDFs attached), what is your opinion ? Look forward to hearing from you then.

Warm regards,
Venkat
I am not sure where you got that the PS3 is the worst bluray player - as far as bluray playback goes it is by far the best - heres the cnet comparisions Best Blu-ray players - CNET Reviews
the ps3 can be effectively controlled with the ps3 controller and you don't really need the ps3 bluray remote. I however use my logitech universal remote (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/re...s/373&cl=US,EN) to control everything (panny 42pv80 plasma, onkyo 7.1 thx ht with jamos, hathway stb, 2 PS3s via ps3-to-IR)

As far as the rest of your setup goes seems pretty good - will look at the pdfs when I get access to a pc, on my cell right now. One pointer I have though is look at plasma display instead of LCD. The "buying lcd" thread should make very clear that a lot of us are pro-plasma here - the panny or pioneer ones are the best displays overall as per cnet reviews
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Old 7th November 2008, 18:18   #606
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@VSG12777,

Thank you very much for your inputs. I will check out the Onkyo model and the Yamahas too. I will figure out where in Bangalore I can get ProFXs. In fact, I plan to use this present Sony HT for another 2-3 months and then go for something better. I can also look for a Blueray player then. Right now, I have a Sony DVD player which has a HDMI output to my LCD. Once I get a better HT and a HD player, I can transfer this DVD player to my old CRT.
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Old 7th November 2008, 18:34   #607
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Originally Posted by jassi View Post
I am not sure where you got that the PS3 is the worst bluray player - as far as bluray playback goes it is by far the best - heres the cnet comparisions Best Blu-ray players - CNET Reviews
the ps3 can be effectively controlled with the ps3 controller and you don't really need the ps3 bluray remote. I however use my logitech universal remote (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/re...s/373&cl=US,EN) to control everything (panny 42pv80 plasma, onkyo 7.1 thx ht with jamos, hathway stb, 2 PS3s via ps3-to-IR)

As far as the rest of your setup goes seems pretty good - will look at the pdfs when I get access to a pc, on my cell right now. One pointer I have though is look at plasma display instead of LCD. The "buying lcd" thread should make very clear that a lot of us are pro-plasma here - the panny or pioneer ones are the best displays overall as per cnet reviews
Hi Jassi

Yes I checked out the PS3 reviews on the internet and it does seem to be a very competent blu ray player. However I find 2 minus points - (1) it doesn't upscale DVDs to 1080p; (2) it doesn't play DivX files

I download lots of DivX 5.1 movies to watch (English/Tamil/Hindi) and the PS3 won't play those :-(

As for the display I mentioned, it's a Samsung 50-inch full HD plasma TV - model PS50A550S1. It seems to be a pretty good unit for around 120k (discounted price). I don't like LCDs much myself though maybe I would get a smaller 32 inch unit for one of the bedrooms. Pioneer plasmas though I know are the best, are just too expensive in India. I have seen and used Pioneer plasmas in Australia when I was there. They are amazing - even the HD Ready models.

Do check out the PDFs and let me know what you think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepakhon View Post
@VSG12777,

Thank you very much for your inputs. I will check out the Onkyo model and the Yamahas too. I will figure out where in Bangalore I can get ProFXs. In fact, I plan to use this present Sony HT for another 2-3 months and then go for something better. I can also look for a Blueray player then. Right now, I have a Sony DVD player which has a HDMI output to my LCD. Once I get a better HT and a HD player, I can transfer this DVD player to my old CRT.
Hi Deepakhon

ProFX has a showroom in Bangalore. Here's the address I got from their website:

BANGALORE 1:

Barton Centre, M.G.Road
Bangalore - 560001
Tel: + 91 80 25594440, 65639334, 25588582
E-mail: blore@profx.com
Open on all days: 11 am to 9 pm

BANGALORE 2:

No. 53, Opposite Big Bazaar, K.H.Road
Bangalore - 560027
(ENTRY BY APPOINTMENT ONLY)
Tel: + 91 80 22112043
E-mail: blore@profx.com
Open on all days: 11 am to 9 pm

As for the blu ray, as recommended to me by others here, the Sony PlayStation 3 seems to be a superb deal for 24k, considering you can play MP3s, DVDs, JPGs, Blu Ray Discs, audio CDs etc and also play HD games all in one device. But, like I said it does not play DivX files. And no upscaling either.

Warm regards,
Venkat
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Old 8th November 2008, 03:32   #608
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Originally Posted by VSG12777 View Post
Hi Jassi

Yes I checked out the PS3 reviews on the internet and it does seem to be a very competent blu ray player. However I find 2 minus points - (1) it doesn't upscale DVDs to 1080p; (2) it doesn't play DivX files

I download lots of DivX 5.1 movies to watch (English/Tamil/Hindi) and the PS3 won't play those :-(

As for the blu ray, as recommended to me by others here, the Sony PlayStation 3 seems to be a superb deal for 24k, considering you can play MP3s, DVDs, JPGs, Blu Ray Discs, audio CDs etc and also play HD games all in one device. But, like I said it does not play DivX files. And no upscaling either.

Warm regards,
Venkat
Again - erronous info - you are in luck buddy

I use my PS3s for divx playback and dvd upscaling

1) the PS3 firmware version 2.10 in december 2007 added divx and xvid support - as of now there isn't a divx file my PS3s can't play. This was further improved in the 2.50 release with divx vod support!!
PS3 gets DivX/XviD playback - we put it to the test

2) DVD upscaling was first added in firmware release 1.8 in may 2007 !! and has been improved greatly ever since. Besides your 1080p plasma or your Denon receiver would be upscaling video anyway if the PS3 didn't. Either way your dvds are going to look good off a PS3
PS3 DVD upscaling: A big improvement | Crave, the gadget blog - CNET

I don't know how you missed this, just google for "ps3 divx" and "ps3 dvd upscaling" and you will get many more links

Nice choice on a plasma over LCD, however if pioneer is out of your budget, do give a look to the panasonic 50" plasmas, rated much better than samsung

I realised I have pdf viewer on my cell, so just gave it a look and yeah the denon-fusion combo looks good. Were you able to give a listen to how the combo sounds with both movies and music.

Last edited by jassi : 8th November 2008 at 03:41.
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Old 8th November 2008, 12:42   #609
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Originally Posted by jassi View Post
Again - erronous info - you are in luck buddy

I use my PS3s for divx playback and dvd upscaling

1) the PS3 firmware version 2.10 in december 2007 added divx and xvid support - as of now there isn't a divx file my PS3s can't play. This was further improved in the 2.50 release with divx vod support!!
PS3 gets DivX/XviD playback - we put it to the test

2) DVD upscaling was first added in firmware release 1.8 in may 2007 !! and has been improved greatly ever since. Besides your 1080p plasma or your Denon receiver would be upscaling video anyway if the PS3 didn't. Either way your dvds are going to look good off a PS3
PS3 DVD upscaling: A big improvement | Crave, the gadget blog - CNET

I don't know how you missed this, just google for "ps3 divx" and "ps3 dvd upscaling" and you will get many more links

Nice choice on a plasma over LCD, however if pioneer is out of your budget, do give a look to the panasonic 50" plasmas, rated much better than samsung

I realised I have pdf viewer on my cell, so just gave it a look and yeah the denon-fusion combo looks good. Were you able to give a listen to how the combo sounds with both movies and music.
Hi Jassi

Wow that's great info man. Have opened the links given by you and saved them in my browser. Shall take a look during the day. Thanks !! That sounds exciting. DVD upscaling and DivX playback are luring me towards a PS3 purchase. Great.

Also, the Denon AVR-1509 does not do upscaling. It has only a HDMI pass through, without audio. Probably the Samsung plasma would do upscaling. Not sure. Have to verify that.

Demo of the Denon-ProFX Fusion 5 system is to be taken today or tomorrow. Want to finish this off in this weekend so that I would have an idea as to how these floor standers and bi-polar surrounds would sound. Will take the demo and post back !!

Warm regards,
Venkat
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Old 10th November 2008, 13:32   #610
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Talking Had a Quick Demo of the Denon AVR-1509 / ProFX Fusion 5 !!

Hi guys

I finally made it to the ProFX showroom yesterday afternoon for the demo on the Denon AVR-1509 / ProFX Fusion 5 speaker system but I had a bit of bad luck. At Spencer Plaza Chennai where the showroom is located, there are power cuts from 3pm to 4.30pm and from 6pm to 10pm every day. I reached there by 2.40pm. I had only about 15 mins for a demo. Also the system was setup was setup in a small to medium sized space which was open on one side overlooking the stairs and the entrance of the showroom. This was on the 1st floor. They had the AVR-1508 or 1507 connected as they had not yet received new stock of the 1509 model (since it's a 2009 model range). But the showroom manager was very nice to me and my dad and spoke very nicely. He was more than glad to answer any queries I had. And I did ask quite a bit in those 15 mins.

Well, I am quite impressed with the system. The detailing in the sound (saw some scenes from Die Hard 4, Behind Enemy Lines, Day After Tomorrow etc) was pretty good and a great improvement over my existing Sony HT-DDW 840 HTiB system (which I purchased in 2003). I now see that there IS a big difference between satellite speakers and tower speakers. Wow. And what a difference it was. The front towers were 150W RMS, centre and surrounds were 100W RMS while the subwoofer was 200W RMS (active subwoofer). The bass was really good. Could literally feel the crashes and blasts at my chest. Especially in Behind Enemy Lines and the Die Hard 4 tunnel car chase / crash sequence.

But of course 15 mins wasn't enough and I really wanted to play some scenes from my own favourite DVDs to check it out, for which I had no time. I told the showroom manager that I would come again for a more detailed demo and he readily agreed. The Denon receiver was pretty powerful. My Sony is nothing in front of it. We raised the volume till about -11 dB and this itself was damn loud and punchy. We could not take it when the volume was slowly raised to 0 dB. He says the volume goes up to +12 dB !! My goodness ... that's really loud. But I found no deterioration in the sound even at 0 dB. If we were about 14 feet away from the towers (which is the distance I am planning for my 50 inch hull HD plasma and home theatre, even then the 0 dB volume would have been pretty loud.

I played my audio CD - Michael Jackson's Dangerous - track 14 "Dangerous" to check out the stereo music quality, and it was really good too. Except that I missed the graphic equaliser that I have in my room, connected to my old Pioneer 50W RMS/ch amp. Having been used to hearing the equalised sound, the sound from this package had much more voice level (I generally reduce the voice component greatly as I enjoy more of the music) but the overall quality of the sound was of a very high order. The bass, treble etc was all pretty balanced, and he said this was the result of the "auto calibration mode" in the receiver. They had just connected the stuff and turned on the auto calibration feature where it automatically sets parameters for speaker distance, etc.

I was left wondering - if the auto mode itself was this good, how much better would it be if I sat and adjusted the settings manually ? Wow.

The build quality on the receiver and speakers was excellent too. At least in my opinion, I feel it doesn't make sense spending tens of thousands of rupees or even lakhs on much higher end speakers. Of course, this is just my view so no offence meant for anyone. Our tastes and affordability are all different and this plays a major role in the kind of package we select.

I am looking forward to the detailed demo maybe next weekend, but this time itself I am quite impressed with this system. I personally feel it is fantastic value for money at 39k for the receiver and speakers together. The ProFX guys would come to your place and do the installation along with whatever length of speaker cables required also provided. No extra charges for these. Can't wait for the day when I get it and have it setup at home. I would highly recommend this system to anyone who wants to spend around 35k to 40k for a good home theatre system. It's totally worth the price. Plus, it's not that the receiver has less features or less power for the price - it's an entry level receiver, but is quite loaded with features. Wattage is very good and more than what we would need. In terms of connectivity / upscaling - yes, this is where you are limited. But then if all those are provided in this model, the higher models wouldn't sell.

So 2 HDMI inputs, 1 HDMI output (only video passthrough), optical inputs, coaxial inputs etc. You can check the PDF for all those details. I am personally very happy with the Denon AVR 1509. Only thing is, if I get Blu Ray either through a Sony PS3 or a standalone player, the receiver would need to be upgraded to enjoy HD sound formats like Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD, as the 1509 does not decode these formats. It's only a 5.1 Dolby Digital / DTS receiver. Blu ray discs can of course be enjoyed with normal 5.1 sound formats with just higher picture quality.

I would also like to mention that I am quite happy with 5.1 sound. So maybe if I get this package, I shall stick on with this receiver and setup for at least 2-3 years. By that time, blu ray would be more common, prices would be lower and it would make more sense to go for a 7.1 system with HD sound format decoding.

Please do post back with your views guys. It would make some good reading. I shall also definitely take the detailed demo this weekend and then post back.

Thanks and warm regards,
Venkat
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Old 10th November 2008, 15:36   #611
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Makes sense

Please do take that demo and post your views. And while you are there also find out what the same package with the 1909 would cost. I am told the 1909 is available for 36k etc at some places.

Nice review Venkat

Did you get to ask them about this? If not can you give that Manager a call perhaps?
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Old 10th November 2008, 15:57   #612
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Nice review Venkat

Did you get to ask them about this? If not can you give that Manager a call perhaps?
Hi kb100

Sorry man I forgot to ask this since I didn't spend much time there. It was the demo and then 5-10 mins with the manager and I was out. I shall give the sales exec a call and find out. I'll get price details for the 1709 and 1909 with the Fusion 5 set.

Shall post back shortly.

Warm regards,
Venkat
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Old 10th November 2008, 16:48   #613
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@ Kb100 - Last month I got the 1909 for around 37k from ProFx.
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Old 10th November 2008, 17:11   #614
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kb100:

I wasn't able to get in touch with the sales exec. However since shuvd has got the Denon 1909 for 37k, the difference in price between 1909 and 1509 seems to be 13k then. So for the package price, you just have to add 13k to the 38k deal with the 1509.

Hence the Denon 1909 with the Fusion 5 package would cost approx 51k.

But I shall anyway speak to the sales guy today or tomorrow and post back.

Guys - is it better to go in for the 1709/1909 now itself (when blu ray players / discs are still very expensive) or shall I decide on the 1509 now and maybe a year or 2 later when blu ray is cheaper and more common I can move up to a better 7.1 receiver ?

The main point behind the 1909 is that it decodes Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD, which are the main HD sound formats used in blu ray discs. I also have another constraint - in my new house, the surrounds are gonna be fixed on the side walls - no space for 2 more speakers (7.1) !!

Later on when we get a bigger house and I have a dedicated home theatre room, that's when I shall go in for a 7.1 or 9.1 or whatever. And a much bigger screen too - like 65 inch plasma, or maybe a pull down screen of 92 inch size. Let's see.
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Old 17th November 2008, 14:33   #615
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Hey guys, need some advice. I am looking for an entry level HTIB system. Budget upto ~25k.

My preferences
- Music quality should also be good (my usage would be approx 60% music and 40% movies)
- Divx codec compatibility, I see a lot of movies in this format, so a DVD player with USB support which supports more codecs is better
- I would prefer a system with floor stands as I live in a rented place and prefer not to wall mount anything
- System should be reliable: dont want to keep running behind service centre ppl

Went to a Reliance Digital and had a look. I narrowed my options down to 3
Onkyo S3100 with free Philips DVD player ~ Rs 21k
Sony DAVDZ570 (with 2 floor standing speakers) ~ 22k
Sony DAVDZ777 (with 4 floor standing speakers) ~ 24k

Now my questions
- Which one of the 3 would u guys recommend considering my preferences?
- Is it true that Onkyo systems are not as reliable as the others?
- How much would some simple speaker stands cost? The Onkyo setup doesnt come with stands and I have to buy them if I go for that
- Is there any other setup that can match these 3 in price/performance?
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