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Old 14th January 2016, 22:22   #22696
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There --------snip------ exactly?
Have you tried battery optimizers?
I used 2x battery by Sam lu from the market before I started using Sony's stamina mode. It used to really help.
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Old 14th January 2016, 23:30   #22697
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I don't regret it, just that I don't see enough difference in my usage scenario, YMMV. Call me a simpleton, but I had no real use for Google Now (I turned it off on 5.x), and Now on Tap with 6.0 goes the same way.

I need my phone to do a few simple things (Email, notes, calendar, some basic apps) I ask of it well and not be a battery hog while doing it, but apparently it's too much to ask a budget/mid-range phone to do that without having to tweak stuff on it endlessly. Oh well!

If I need to constantly tweak and toggle stuff on a SMARTphone to keep it working efficiently, where's the smart in the phone exactly?
You're right in a way, chetan. But the fact remains that for Android, or Google, the idea of "Smart" seems to be different from ours. For them "Smart" apparently means that the phone always keeps you connected to all the online "Smart" (in their terms) features and systems in the process continuosly hogging on YOUR INTERNET CONNECTION, YOUR RAM and YOUR BATTERY at YOUR EXPENSE unnecessarily wasting YOUR MONEY. Especially the system utilities themselves.

The best part is Google is so smug and proud about this "Smartness" that they created and expect you to really be ecstatic about it too! But I think, of late things are getting out of hand. We all need a lighter, swifter, less energy/time consuming, more efficient OS which does'nt get you all stressed out. Look at the amount of RAM Android is demanding to run acceptably these days!

Windows on the other hand handles battery and ram much much better. Android should take a cue. But sometimes I suspect its a nexus between google, internet service providers and cellphone companies always forcing us to shell out more and more money to get some work done.
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Old 15th January 2016, 03:18   #22698
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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I don't regret it, just that I don't see enough difference in my usage scenario, YMMV. Call me a simpleton, but I had no real use for Google Now (I turned it off on 5.x), and Now on Tap with 6.0 goes the same way.

I need my phone to do a few simple things (Email, notes, calendar, some basic apps) I ask of it well and not be a battery hog while doing it, but apparently it's too much to ask a budget/mid-range phone to do that without having to tweak stuff on it endlessly. Oh well!

If I need to constantly tweak and toggle stuff on a SMARTphone to keep it working efficiently, where's the smart in the phone exactly?
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You're right in a way, chetan. But the fact remains that for Android, or Google, the idea of "Smart" seems to be different from ours. For them "Smart" apparently means that the phone always keeps you connected to all the online "Smart" (in their terms) features and systems in the process continuosly hogging on YOUR INTERNET CONNECTION, YOUR RAM and YOUR BATTERY at YOUR EXPENSE unnecessarily wasting YOUR MONEY. Especially the system utilities themselves.
The best part is Google is so smug and proud about this "Smartness" that they created and expect you to really be ecstatic about it too! But I think, of late things are getting out of hand. sometimes I suspect its a nexus between google, internet service providers and cellphone companies always forcing us to shell out more and more money to get some work done.
Well, THAT's really the problem with Android. For all the massive success of their other products such as Search, YouTube, Chrome, GMail, Maps, Translate, etc. and their monopoly in their respective segments, Google simply hasn't been able to replicate the same with Android, and whatever comes along with it.
Android is famous for its openness and customisability, and geeks find both of it invaluable, but the average Joe wouldn't care lesser about both. And the same openness and customisability in turn leads to FRAGMENTATION. It is something even Windows hasn't seen of like how Android has. And due to this fragmentation, there are a large number of forms of Android that coexist, and be vastly different to each other. And we all tend to consider all of them in the same umbrella that is Android.
In fact so diverse is the Android ecosystem that many people don't even know what Android actually stands for. I already said that the average Joe wouldn't care about the customisation and stuff, but for most users, they prefer Android mainly due to the accessibility and due to the fact that brand 'Android' has become household, much like Maruti in our automotive world. When someone buys a smartphone, they are actually just buying a smartphone, and not necessarily buying into the Android ecosystem as Google want them to. And thus, an Android phone is bought as a phone that can run Android apps, for they are accessible and popular. In fact, for many, a smartphone will start becoming a liability only if we take out the instant messengers, especially WhatsApp, for many smartphones are actually bought primarily as a means to use these apps. Hence, most of the smartphones are OEM devices, which are strikingly different from Google's implementation of Android, may it be in terms of software, hardware, compatibility, support, or anything else. People won't care about the Android experience if the device itself works for them.

But Google care more towards the loyalists, the ones who actually are in their ecosystem and use their services. The reason is simple. More users using more of their services means more user data and more ad revenue. In turn, Google makes stuff a lot better and more intuitive for the user. Google now is the pinnacle of this loyalist-oriented service. If you use Google's own services (most of which are awesome anyway) they keep making the experience better and better for you. Google Now itself has improved leaps and bounds showing smart cards, third party cards, getting into voice search, advanced voice commands, and now the Now On Tap.
The way stock Android has been moving from a bland base software for OEM's to build upon, to a beautifully stitched together web of Google's servies is a proof of the same.

And by stock Android, I refer only to that in Nexus devices. Because that is the only version built and supported directly by Google. Even if Motorola's or Cyanogen's software feels very much the same, Motorola makes many under-the-hood modifications, and Cyanogen is essentially a custom ROM. Others like Touchwiz are not even in question.
And Google's Android is as simple and efficient as iOS and Windows Phone are. We have not heard Nexus devices performing badly, the whole interface is beautifully designed, the updates are just as quick as iOS, and way quicker than the Winodws 10 Mobile release, and a Nexus device gets prompt support for long enough for a user to stay happy.
But then a Nexus out of the box is also pretty locked down and very much into Google as well. We only have Google apps everywhere, there isn't even a file manager or a video player built in, one cannot edit or change a button or a menu, and there are no gimmicky 'features' either.
But after that, a solid app ecosystem kills Windows Phone, and customisation kills iOS. And custom ROM's kill both and the user's patience.

But that's not the Android that everyone gets, or everyone wants either. What we get are heavily forked versions. And yet we end up classifying the same as Android. For example, a Xiaomi phone is actually not even an Android phone in the real sense. It's just a Xiaomi phone that can run Android apps. And same for the others. But that's all we care about. The forked OSes suffer in terms of performance, longevity, support, etc. and the blame still goes to 'Android'. Which is not entirely fair actually. Even for a Motorola, where they do make many changes and optimizations under the hood. Their interface feels just the same, and is better than anything else out there, but yet, that isn't technically 100% stock Android.

And Google don't want this fragmentation either. It is only because of OEM's and carriers. Google have tried hard on their part but haven't succeeded. They sell the Nexus series unlocked via Google store to bypass carriers, and had introduced the Android One series to provide an affordable stock Android experience. They also had the Google Play editions of OEM flagships, but they failed as well. They also have the Fi network in the US that has cheap data, but none of these has really worked out well enough.

They haven't managed to pull off an Apple yet actually. And Apple as in terms of marketing and user loyalty. Not 'innovation'. The way their users and fans support them, and the way many people actually created the want or need to use and admire stuff like Apple Watch or Force Touch, when both weren't all that necessary for essential usage. And adjust to the many limitations of their ecosystem only to be able to admire the straightforward simplicity that it offers. And yet the Apple experience is treated as something like a privilege.
If the same way, more people maybe begin to incorporate Google's experience into their usage though they may perhaps do without them as well, the sheer benefit of the services would outweigh the negatives in terms of data or battery performance. The thing is, conditions aren't exactly such that they may prove valuable and useful enough.

Last edited by mukul32 : 15th January 2016 at 03:23.
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Old 15th January 2016, 09:04   #22699
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Android is famous for its openness and customisability, and geeks find both of it invaluable, but the average Joe wouldn't care lesser about both. And the same openness and customisability in turn leads to FRAGMENTATION.
I wanted to ask this question since long, why aren't you on GSMArena's payroll yet? They sure could use a neutral consultant and not the "Samsung S6/7/8/9 is the best phone of 2015/16/17/18" types :-P

In my view, sales do not define quality.. if that were true everything would be flipped over. Sure for the most part demand does justify a certain quality which the general public likes, but to base the best on demand purely wouldn't be a very wise thing. As with everything else I'm not a fan of too much technology in phones, as long as its practical and serves only my needs very well I'm happy. For eg, all phones have cameras now, not just cameras but 8mp, 12mp 16mp sensors.. I just chose to go for maximum resolution 23 mp Sony sensor. I don't have complete detail on how better this sensor is from the others but just going by images I think it is, with a host of sensor tweaks like ExmorRS+fastest autofocus I get pretty sharp and detailed pictures even in low light or in a sudden click. All phones have batteries, I just chose to go with the longest advertised battery life and the battery life has only exceeded my expectations. Water/dust resistance is just a bonus, which means I can use the phone in rains without worry (which I have) and also give it a good wash under the tap just because its fun.

That's about all I need the phone for. I have a long list of disabled apps in the drawer (about 50+) including some of Sony's built-in ones too. I don't have any other apps installed (other than Whatsapp). Suits my needs perfectly. I do feel that Android is getting more cartoonish by the update, Gingerbread or ICS felt far more formal or straight-edged should I say. Developer friendly, customization friendly is all fine.. but then I personally feel its all a big waste of time, in the end its a phone and it should come with perfect optimizations from the factory (tweaking the software according to processor capacity). An S6 user in office complained of lag 2 days after buying it.. obviously R&D is non-existent in Samsung.
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Old 15th January 2016, 11:12   #22700
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There was notification control even before that, but I don't believe one could stop notifications from the system updates section. I could be wrong but that's water under the bridge now. FWIW, I can't find where to turn system update notifications (the OS variety) off in 6.0 either.



I don't regret it, just that I don't see enough difference in my usage scenario, YMMV. Call me a simpleton, but I had no real use for Google Now (I turned it off on 5.x), and Now on Tap with 6.0 goes the same way.

I need my phone to do a few simple things (Email, notes, calendar, some basic apps) I ask of it well and not be a battery hog while doing it, but apparently it's too much to ask a budget/mid-range phone to do that without having to tweak stuff on it endlessly. Oh well!

If I need to constantly tweak and toggle stuff on a SMARTphone to keep it working efficiently, where's the smart in the phone exactly?
Spot on - That is exactly why I switched to the iPhone 6. The Lumia series are brilliant except for the unfortunate app scene there.

IMHO, the only solution currently is to buy android phones with big batteries (as Thad's post outlined). Or use a MotoG first gen with Kitkat. I know friends who get good battery life on that - but then there's other compromises in there!
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Old 15th January 2016, 12:39   #22701
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Yes, doze and other battery optimization tricks are supposedly marquee features of Android M but if the number of complaints online are any indication, it's not worked for everyone.
it-works-for-me comments on forums are so unhelpful to people with problem experience... but it is all I can say: It does work for me. New phone, bigger battery, probably all part of the answer, but, on standby and over-night battery usage, I'm getting double the time with previous phones (unless we go back to the ones that just make calls, of course).

Microsoft introduced the software-that-wears-out concept, ie, performance dies and more and more things go wrong, until a reinstall. Maybe my new phone may be not so great when it is not so new. Have to wait and see.

However, I absolutely agree, and have already ranted about, this...

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You're right in a way, chetan. But the fact remains that for Android, or Google, the idea of "Smart" seems to be different from ours. For them "Smart" apparently means that the phone always keeps you connected to all the online "Smart" (in their terms) features and systems in the process continuosly hogging on YOUR INTERNET CONNECTION, YOUR RAM and YOUR BATTERY at YOUR EXPENSE unnecessarily wasting YOUR MONEY. Especially the system utilities themselves.
...As in, Dear Google, give me back my mobile-data-off toggle.

At least I am no longer suffering from every-page-a-google-advert, with that unremovable Google search bar staring me in the face. Well, why else would there be a Google Now launcher, if it were not to shove google down our throats?

Google is useful. Google does some good stuff, but Android 6 is a big step closer to making like one of those dogs that will not stop sitting on your lap and licking your face.
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Old 15th January 2016, 13:14   #22702
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And Google's Android is as simple and efficient as iOS and Windows Phone are. We have not heard Nexus devices performing badly
It was a nice read until here. The above is not really true. WRT speed and fluidity iPhones and Lumias, most of them with just a gig of RAM, are far ahead of Android. I had a Nexus 7 which started crawling after Lollipop. Crawling up to the level of "unusable".

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For example, a Xiaomi phone is actually not even an Android phone in the real sense. It's just a Xiaomi phone that can run Android apps.
I don't think thats true. A fork is where you take source code and start your own development. Xiaomi still have to get their OS certified by Google if they have to bundle Play Services. Amazon's Fire OS and erstwhile Nokia's X were forks.
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Old 15th January 2016, 13:41   #22703
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Lest this turns into a Versus debate, I'm not anti-OS, Android or another. They all have plenty of pros and cons. The only reason I didn't switch over to WP8 was honestly the familiarity I had with Android (whatever warped version of it Samsung served me, of course), and WP didn't have a couple of my must-have apps. I don't see iDevices as value for my money, personal opinion only and YMMV.

I've started to detest market mono or duopolies, but that's what we've become. How I would love if one or more of these alternatives had survived/thrived:

1. Symbian was archaic but great at what it did, and Meego was a promising next-gen solution before Nokia gave up on both.

2. Blackberry raised hopes with their acquisition of QNX - BB10 is still pound-for-pound the most mature and intuitive OS out there, app scenario notwithstanding, an OS is more than apps - they're struggling too.

3. Palm's WebOS was one of the most polished things I'd ever seen even out of the box, but HP put a shroud on that one.

4. Windows OWNS the world's PC market, and one can only imagine what they could do integration-wise if WP really caught on.

It's all swell to say something is developer-centric and customizable, but it's ultimately the consumer whose opinion decides your fate. What good would a dev-friendly OS be if users are turned off the experience? Developers exist because of user-base, not the other way around.

All that being said, I believe it's time all OSes matured to a level where a user is given the choice (paid, if required) of just how intrusive they want the experience to be. Keep everything free as it is now and sell the users (and their data) on as much as you like for those who don't mind or care, but the ones that don't want to be the product, give them a choice to turn stuff off without crippling functionality elsewhere.

E.g. If I don't want my phone to know where I am every second of the day down to the last meter, I should be able to restrict it without crippling a bunch of other functions. Why shouldn't I have that choice just because a LOT of other people don't mind being tracked constantly?

I own my gadget and I don't want that equation to change, but it seems every tech giant out there has a vested interest in doing just that (Duh, you say!). Oh well, enough ranting for the present I guess

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 15th January 2016 at 13:47.
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Old 15th January 2016, 15:40   #22704
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It was a nice read until here. The above is not really true. WRT speed and fluidity iPhones and Lumias, most of them with just a gig of RAM, are far ahead of Android. I had a Nexus 7 which started crawling after Lollipop. Crawling up to the level of "unusable".
I don't think thats true. A fork is where you take source code and start your own development. Xiaomi still have to get their OS certified by Google if they have to bundle Play Services. Amazon's Fire OS and erstwhile Nokia's X were forks.
Sorry to hear that. However, was your Nexus 7 a 2012 (Tegra 3) model? And had you formatted the device after updating? Or maybe third-party apps proved too much for it. And in fact Lollipop itself proved really bad for many old and third party devices due to relative lack of optimisation and presence of several bugs. Even many Nexus 4 and 5 users reported battery drains, app crashes etc. which got far better on 5.1. There was a recent apps bug as well. And third party apps made things worse. But that doesn't mean Android updates in general have been bad. KitKat, for instance improved things on almost every device it ran on. The biggest resource hogs on Android are Facebook+Messenger, Play services, and Whatsapp. Chrome is a storage hog as well. For what's essentially a browser now weighs in at over 50 MB in size!
But some devices still performed quite well. Those Nexus users who didn't have issues had a really smooth journey. Even older flagships performed quite well on Lollipop. I had got a Samsung Note 8.0 right at launch in April 2013, (instead of the Nexus 7 2012, for SD slot and multi window, which I sometimes regret) which still runs quite fluidly on CM12.1. My Mom's Galaxy Grand still runs shockingly smoothly (for its age) on CM12.1 as well. It has an old Broadcom dual core chip and just one gig of RAM. Way less pixels to push though, just 800x480 on a 5" screen. And both have stagefright fixes and the latest security code straight from Google despite Samsung ending official support eons ago.

So your Nexus 7 must've had some specific issues and maybe not generalized ones. Or may be it was showing its age. Even iPad 2 and iPhone 4S units performed really sluggishly on iOS 8 and 9. My close friend had an iPod touch 5th gen running the A5, and it was as bad as entry level Samsung smartphones in terms of performance.
Similarly, Lumia 520's and 625's also fared pretty badly on the 10 preview builds. Some others suffered from app crashes and battery drains after updating to 8.1 Cyan. I came across a lot of issues reported in the WP communities, but thing is, these users are so less in number, that the issues don't come out as prominently as the ones in Android do. Almost all the WP market is budget phones used by very casual users. So they may not notice a few small bugs, or ignore them. So it's not exclusive to Android at all.

And MIUI is not a complete fork, but they don't use the AOSP source exactly as it is. Unlike say, Samsung and LG, who add their own code on top of AOSP's code, and thus make it heavier, Xiaomi actually replace large parts of the AOSP source code with their own. Hence, a full MIUI ROM comes in at around 600-700 MB, versus the 1GB+ of a typical Touchwiz firmware. Hence, MIUI coders don't even operate on XDA a lot. They have their own MIUI forums for development and discussion. And that's why Xiaomi don't bother to update Android versions on their devices even if they update the MIUI versions. I think they are looking to get independent of Android as much as possible. In fact everyone is, these days.
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Old 17th January 2016, 23:00   #22705
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But some devices still performed quite well. Those Nexus users who didn't have issues had a really smooth journey. Even older flagships performed quite well on Lollipop. I had got a Samsung Note 8.0 right at launch in April 2013, (instead of the Nexus 7 2012, for SD slot and multi window, which I sometimes regret) which still runs quite fluidly on CM12.1. My Mom's Galaxy Grand still runs shockingly smoothly (for its age) on CM12.1 as well. It has an old Broadcom dual core chip and just one gig of RAM. Way less pixels to push though, just 800x480 on a 5" screen. And both have stagefright fixes and the latest security code straight from Google despite Samsung ending official support eons ago.

So your Nexus 7 must've had some specific issues and maybe not generalized ones. Or may be it was showing its age. Even iPad 2 and iPhone 4S units performed really sluggishly on iOS 8 and 9. My close friend had an iPod touch 5th gen running the A5, and it was as bad as entry level Samsung smartphones in terms of performance.
Similarly, Lumia 520's and 625's also fared pretty badly on the 10 preview builds.
Uh another one of the "My Nexus 7-2012 sucks" brigade. We have both in the house. Except a file browser and skype, there is no other app on the N7. And it has been downgraded systematically from 4.4 to 4.2 for acceptable lag-less performance. While the iPad has almost 100 apps! Even my 4.5 year old says the iPad2 (iOS8) is faster.

That said, the Galaxy Nexus was a fantastic device. The wife still has that as a backup phone. Its battery is now crap but otherwise it is a clean quick phone on stock (4.3) with 50+ apps installed including many hyperactive news apps. The GNex conned us into buying the N7, which frankly has been quite crappy.
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Old 19th January 2016, 18:54   #22706
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However, was your Nexus 7 a 2012 (Tegra 3) model? And had you formatted the device after updating? Or maybe third-party apps proved too much for it.
Yeah, the N7 2012. Formatted several times, almost all google apps disabled. I hust run chrome, tTorrent and vlc. That thing crawls and often I end up looking at a white screen for several minutes before going for a reset.
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Uh another one of the "My Nexus 7-2012 sucks" brigade. We have both in the house. Except a file browser and skype, there is no other app on the N7. And it has been downgraded systematically from 4.4 to 4.2 for acceptable lag-less performance. While the iPad has almost 100 apps! Even my 4.5 year old says the iPad2 (iOS8) is faster.
I also have a iPad 3, and even with iOS 9 and several apps, it is still smooth. It could do with a tad more RAM, but else, it is superb.
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Old 19th January 2016, 19:18   #22707
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Yeah, the N7 2012. Formatted several times, almost all google apps disabled. I hust run chrome, tTorrent and vlc. That thing crawls and often I end up looking at a white screen for several minutes before going for a reset.
Among the Nexus devices, the only device that lags is the Nexus 7 tegra 3 model and unfortunately, that's the one you are having. :(

I've used the below devices and all of them are super fast.
  • Nexus 4 mobile
  • Nexus 5 mobile
  • Nexus 7 2013 model
  • Nexus 6 mobile
  • Nexus 9 tablet

And for getting quality android device, just stick to either Nexus or Motorola high end and you are safe. ( Exception - Tablets )

With regards to Motorola,
my wife is on Moto G 1st gen,
mom on Moto X 1st gen ( she switched from iPhone 4s ),
father on Moto G Turbo, and
myself on the puny Moto E 2nd gen 4g

Needless to say, all these mobiles released in different years are all on Android 5.1.1 now. So, with Nexus and Motorola, there is no such thing as fragmentation.
And with my Moto E 2nd gen, I'm able to do gps navigation, bluetooth pairing to car stereo, use google now voice recognition while driving ( handy commands like take me home, call wife etc ) and even read team-bhp when stuck in traffic all at a decent speed. So, with android, you choose the right device and you are safe.

Buy crap like Samsung and you are doomed.

Last edited by amalji : 19th January 2016 at 19:32.
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Old 19th January 2016, 19:21   #22708
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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post

All that being said, I believe it's time all OSes matured to a level where a user is given the choice (paid, if required) of just how intrusive they want the experience to be. Keep everything free as it is now and sell the users (and their data) on as much as you like for those who don't mind or care, but the ones that don't want to be the product, give them a choice to turn stuff off without crippling functionality elsewhere.

E.g. If I don't want my phone to know where I am every second of the day down to the last meter, I should be able to restrict it without crippling a bunch of other functions. Why shouldn't I have that choice just because a LOT of other people don't mind being tracked constantly?

I own my gadget and I don't want that equation to change, but it seems every tech giant out there has a vested interest in doing just that (Duh, you say!). Oh well, enough ranting for the present I guess
This is a very good point. In this day of big data and collecting every bit of information that corporates can about you, it would be nice to have an option to be able to use all the apps that you want to use without having to give too much of data about yourself or your usage away. I am talking about how Google (surely) is collecting data about everything you use on the phone - maps included. There should be an option to use maps (this is just an example) without having a google id. To be able to install apps without a google id either. I mean, it is technically possible to do this even now I guess by rooting an Android phone and wiping Gapps and side-load apps...

I have only recently started realising that I am getting bored of Android.
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Old 19th January 2016, 19:26   #22709
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Question Re: Android Thread: Phones / Apps / Mods

Why there is no Android 6.0/Marshmallow release for 'Nexus 4' ?
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Old 19th January 2016, 19:42   #22710
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Why there is no Android 6.0/Marshmallow release for 'Nexus 4' ?
It's been 3.5 years since Nexus 4 is released. Google has been providing update for this device till date. Every device will have an EOL regarding support.

I would rather run an iPhone 4 on old versions of iOS than on the latest iOS which makes it sluggish. Plain and simply, the OS was not designed keeping this old hardware in mind. It will only serve in realizing that the hardware is inadequate to handle the OS, and you end up upgrading the hardware.
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