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Old 20th December 2006, 13:59   #31
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LBM - PM speedonline, he should be able to help you out. He's blown enough stuff while overclocking to know his stuff!!!!
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Old 20th December 2006, 14:37   #32
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Contact Amey... he is kinda the Guru of overclocking for me.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/members/amey.html

Anyway, do post more info on rig configuration and what exctly you want to OC

Last edited by Nikhilb2008 : 20th December 2006 at 14:39.
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Old 20th December 2006, 14:56   #33
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Overclocking is no rocket science as it is made out to be.
It all depends on how much are you willing to spend.
First off, some basics of overclocking
1. Higher clock speed will mean faster process execution. A lot depends on your RAM speed etc., but a higher clock speed of your CPU will definitely give better numbers. But that does not mean that 20% increase in clock speed will mean 20% increase in performance. From application to application it will vary.
For a small sized application which can run entirely off the registers and on CPU L1 cache, you may get close to 20% increase in performance, but for RAM intensive applications, the gain may be much less

That gets us to the second question. If overclocking gives better performance, why dont the manufacturers do it themselves.
Same reason as why cars dont come pre-chipped, well almost.
CPU etc., are designed to work in worst case scenarios. That is given the harshest environment, CPU should not fail. So at 5 degree C or at 55 degree C the chip should perform equally well. So if you design a chip for lower temparatures, it will fail at high temperatures.
So what do overclockers do.
They create the ideal environment for the chip via extra fans, water cooling and in extreme cases Liquid Nitrogen cooling. The cooler the temparature, the higher the clock speed you can push, albeit within limits.

So you want to overclock, well most motherboards will allow you to do so. But do so at your own risk. Higher temperatures will lead to failure, and in some cases permanent damage, so make sure you have the required cooling mechanisms in place.

There is enough information available on forums like Toms Hardware. You can overclock all you want depending on your budget. Your last name is Gates? Well you can get yourself a cyro Liquid nitrogen system. There is no end to what you can do with it.

Now the last question, do you need to overclock. Well only if you want to. Dont expect your PC turn into a supercomputer. On many applications you wont even notice. If you want better gaming performance, overlclock your GPU rather than the CPU. But if somebody asks me, my answer is, overclock by around 10% at the most and get bigger more powerful fans. Dont go the extreme way. The expenditure and risk you will have is equal to the cost of a newer, faster processor. So if you want to satisfy your geekiness, go for it, but if you are doing it from a goal point of view, and not from the point of doing it because it can be done, don't.
Get more RAM and a faster CPU instead.

I want to overclock, thats it, no reason
So you decided to take the plunge, well good luck
Read these first
Overclocking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Forums dedicated to overclockers : Overclockers Forums - Powered by vBulletin
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Old 20th December 2006, 15:13   #34
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Your A64 3000 is quite sufficient for NFS MW (or even Carbon) - I was running a 3200 till recently without any issues - and don't bother OC'ing your CPU/RAM - you'll at most see a difference of a few frames per second unless you invest heavily in a a high quality cooling solution as well as some expensive RAM.

OC'ing for performance is quite a waste IMHO - I sometimes do it to see how much difference in benchmarks it makes. (Last time i seriously overcloced was a celeron 366 to 550 on a 440BX Supermicro board...)

You could try getting a PCI-E graphics card - WHich model depends upon your budget - don't go for the FX series (which are AGP only IIRC) - You can pick up a 6200 real cheap or go upto a 6600. If you want to shell out more there's always the 6800, 7800 and 7900 series - I've never used ATI( cards so I can't comment (been nvidia all the way since the Riva TNT to my 7900GT).

ANother 1 GB of RAM might help in certain games - CoD2 for one - I don't know about the NFS series.

Check out www.arstechnica.com (the forums are damn informative), AnandTech: your source for hardware analysis and news, Tom's Hardware - there's also an Indian site - TechEnclave - ask Switch - he's a buddy of mine (and a bit loopy in the head about overclocking his machines.)

cheers

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Old 20th December 2006, 15:39   #35
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My 2 cents on over-clocking a CPU.

To first understand overclocking a CPU in a computer, it is important to know how the speed of the processor is computed. All processor speeds are based upon two distinct factors, bus speed and multiplier.

The bus speed is the core clock cycle rate that the processor communicates with items such as the memory and the chipset. It is commonly rated in the MHz rating scale referring to the number of cycles per second that it runs at.

The multiplier is the multiple that the processor will run at compared to the bus speed. This is the actual number of processing cycles it will run at in a single clock cycle of the bus speed.



So, a Pentium 4 2.4GHz processor is based on the following:
Eg : 133 MHz x 18 multiplier = 2394MHz or 2.4 GHz
Whilst overclocking keep in mind the following factors

1 - Voltage
2 - Heat
3 -
Component Considerations

If its an AMD, folks they easily over heat and if not enough cooling they simply fry. On the brighter side they work much better than the Intel's.
On a note of caution , over clock and make sure that you have enough cooling.

Someone suggested PCI-Express, bravo mate the best that you can pick keeping in mind gaming.

My PC at home is an AMD and has been over-clocked exclusively only for ripping DVD's. I have added an extra fan and removed the side covers off and made sure that the box doesnt sit in an enclosure.
Touch wood no problems faced still today.

Last edited by rjstyles69 : 20th December 2006 at 15:43.
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Old 20th December 2006, 23:41   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [I
rjstyles69[/i]]If its an AMD, folks they easily over heat and if not enough cooling they simply fry. On the brighter side they work much better than the Intel's.


Which year you living in ?? The old AMD Athlon XP/MPs (Palomino Core and Thunderbird Cores) used to overheat....

When the AMD 64s came, they were superb. Hardly any heating issues. Then Intel released the Prescotts which were mini room heaters.....
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Old 21st December 2006, 00:01   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhilb2008 View Post

Which year you living in ?? The old AMD Athlon XP/MPs (Palomino Core and Thunderbird Cores) used to overheat....
When the AMD 64s came, they were superb. Hardly any heating issues. Then Intel released the Prescotts which were mini room heaters.....
I run my system on a AMD Athlon 64 .So you say AMD 64's dont over heat? Well mate I cant buy that , ever tried ripping a DVD and putting you processor usage to max? Give it a shot and let me know what the room is like???
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Old 21st December 2006, 00:38   #38
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pci-e is greater than agp right? the framerates are better in a pci-e.

i have played nfs: carbon on SLI graphics , one of my friends system ( Aleinware series). its awesome.....

onething is it better that i go in for a agp or pci-e . my budget is bout 6k for graphics alone.?
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Old 21st December 2006, 00:50   #39
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Originally Posted by rjstyles69 View Post
I run my system on a AMD Athlon 64 .So you say AMD 64's dont over heat? Well mate I cant buy that , ever tried ripping a DVD and putting you processor usage to max? Give it a shot and let me know what the room is like???
hmm..... no hope then.... I cant waste my time arguing with fools.... did a lot of that before and I learnt that some people just dont see facts and believe whatever they want...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosfreak View Post
pci-e is greater than agp right? the framerates are better in a pci-e.

i have played nfs: carbon on SLI graphics , one of my friends system ( Aleinware series). its awesome.....

onething is it better that i go in for a agp or pci-e . my budget is bout 6k for graphics alone.?
Not always.

AGP has a max transfer rate of 8x. PCIe has a max rate of 16x.

So, yeah theoretically PCIe is faster.

But if you use a system which is similar in all ways except that one uses PCIe 6600 GT and another uses an AGP 6600 GT, the results will be identical.

PCIe is the future. Most new graphics cards arent being released for AGP.
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Old 21st December 2006, 01:24   #40
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Originally Posted by nikhilb2008 View Post
hmm..... no hope then.... I cant waste my time arguing with fools.... did a lot of that before and I learnt that some people just dont see facts and believe whatever they want...
Grow up kid.
Please note no-one is here to argue, everyone is sharing what they have tried and experiened. And if you think you are wasting your time no-one's asking you to reply you can as well dwell in your world of f**l's .
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Old 21st December 2006, 01:42   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphod View Post
Your A64 3000 is quite sufficient for NFS MW (or even Carbon) - I was running a 3200 till recently without any issues - and don't bother OC'ing your CPU/RAM - you'll at most see a difference of a few frames per second unless you invest heavily in a a high quality cooling solution as well as some expensive RAM.
Actually, you can see quite a boost. I also have a 3200+ and running it at 2.45 ghz sees a noticeable boost in games. Especially NFS MW and NFS Carbon (which was a crappily coded game).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
OC'ing for performance is quite a waste IMHO - I sometimes do it to see how much difference in benchmarks it makes. (Last time i seriously overcloced was a celeron 366 to 550 on a 440BX Supermicro board...)
Again, I totally disagree. MY 3200+ at 2.45 ghz is faster than a 3800+. But would I have got a 3800 for 10K (2 yrs back) ?? No way.

Overclocking is a way of getting more out of your system. IF you are on a budget, you can overclock and get much better performance.

OF course, doing it wrong can screw up your system. Temps have to be controlled and that is pretty easy even with the stock coolers on AMD 64s. Of course, if you can spend a bit and get an aftermarket cooler from abroad, then even better.

And using the stock cooler, you can use Arctic Silver 5 to drop your temps by a lot. And making sure your cabby is well venitlated also helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod
You could try getting a PCI-E graphics card - WHich model depends upon your budget - don't go for the FX series (which are AGP only IIRC) - You can pick up a 6200 real cheap or go upto a 6600. If you want to shell out more there's always the 6800, 7800 and 7900 series - I've never used ATI( cards so I can't comment (been nvidia all the way since the Riva TNT to my 7900GT).
It depends on the mobo.,... if the mobo is an AGP mobo (slightly older mobos like 8xx series of Intel and nforce 3 and lower series for AMD), then you can think abt upgrading totally to a PCIe system depending on your budget.

Or just get the best AGP card you can squeeze into your budget.
Quote:
ANother 1 GB of RAM might help in certain games - CoD2 for one - I don't know about the NFS series.
Yeah.... nowadays, many games work best with 2 GB of RAM. BF2 started the trend. And now Fear, COd2 and others are huge memory hoggers. Not to forget Oblivion. One of the biggest system hoggers in recent times.
Quote:
there's also an Indian site - TechEnclave - ask Switch - he's a buddy of mine (and a bit loopy in the head about overclocking his machines.)
You know Switch ?? Nice !! I am also a member there... I remember "welcoming" you at TE ages ago

TE is an amazing site...everything is India specific and that is the best part. Especially when it comes to availability of computer components.

Will reply to TSK's post later
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Old 21st December 2006, 02:44   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
That gets us to the second question. If overclocking gives better performance, why dont the manufacturers do it themselves.
Same reason as why cars dont come pre-chipped, well almost.
CPU etc., are designed to work in worst case scenarios. That is given the harshest environment, CPU should not fail. So at 5 degree C or at 55 degree C the chip should perform equally well. So if you design a chip for lower temparatures, it will fail at high temperatures.
This is very true. The speed at which the CPU is rated, it is guaranteed not to fail. And not only due to the temps. There are other factors like voltages too.

Quote:
So what do overclockers do.
They create the ideal environment for the chip via extra fans, water cooling and in extreme cases Liquid Nitrogen cooling. The cooler the temparature, the higher the clock speed you can push, albeit within limits.
Again, just making sure your CPU is cool is no guarantee that you will overclock well... There are a lot of other limitations like chip, RAM, mobo and of course, the user

Quote:
So you want to overclock, well most motherboards will allow you to do so. But do so at your own risk. Higher temperatures will lead to failure, and in some cases permanent damage, so make sure you have the required cooling mechanisms in place.
Again, if you have an Intel original mobo, then you cant overclock. They are all locked.

Only in the latest 975 Badaxe series of mobos have Intel allowed overclocking on it's boards. Traditionally, to overclock an Intel CPU, you needed a mobo made by asus, Gigabyte, DFI, MSI based on the Intel chipset.

And you dont need to do so much for cooling. A tube of arctic Silver 5 costs 375/-. It will last for ages. I still have the AS5 tube I bought in May 2005. And I have the small tube. I have used it on everything on my comp. I must have removed the heatisnk of the CPU abt 5-6 times and the GPU abt 10 times and every time I use AS5 and the tube is still not empty.

You shouldnt use too much of AS5 when you apply. It is supposed to be an interface between the CPU IHS (integrated Heat Spreader) and the surface of the heatsink.

Anyway, that rambling was just to say that to invest once in a tube of AS5 is a smart thing to do.

to cool your comp, make sure you have applied AS5 and the heatsink is mounted properly on the CPU. One of the biggest problems I have noticed is that people dont open their comps and clean it regularly. If you have placed your computer in a relatively sealed off Air conditioned room, then it is ok (like computer labs). But generally, people are hesitant when it comes to opening the cabinets and cleaning it. Dust can clog up the vents and the fans and restrict smooth air flow.

Many times, just opening the cabinet, cleaning and re applying AS5 and reseating the heatsink can make a world of difference to the temps.

And a well ventilated cabby should have 2 fans at least. One at the bottom front to suck in cool air from outside and an exhaust fan at the top back to expel hot air. In most cabinets, it is best to install the fan below the hard disk as it helps in cooling the Hard disk too.

You can use a variety of tools to monitor temps. I personally like Everest Home Edition.


Quote:
There is enough information available on forums like Toms Hardware. You can overclock all you want depending on your budget. Your last name is Gates? Well you can get yourself a cyro Liquid nitrogen system. There is no end to what you can do with it.
No9t actually true. A lot depends on your system itself. IF your CPU is a dud, then you cant overclock much how much ever you cool it and overvolt it. I should know... I have a CBBID 0501 stepping :(

Quote:
Now the last question, do you need to overclock. Well only if you want to. Dont expect your PC turn into a supercomputer. On many applications you wont even notice. If you want better gaming performance, overlclock your GPU rather than the CPU. But if somebody asks me, my answer is, overclock by around 10% at the most and get bigger more powerful fans. Dont go the extreme way. The expenditure and risk you will have is equal to the cost of a newer, faster processor. So if you want to satisfy your geekiness, go for it, but if you are doing it from a goal point of view, and not from the point of doing it because it can be done, don't.
Get more RAM and a faster CPU instead.
You missed the point of overclocking. Most people, do it to get that little bit more out of their system. I do it for that reason. Initially, when my comp was new, it was top of the line and I didnt need any extra computing power and at that time, I did overclock just for kicks.

But today, with more intensive applications (gmes mostly), I can see the difference when I overclock my machine. As I mentioned in my previous post, I would have never been able to afford (my dad rather ..lol... ) a 3800+. But when oc'ed, my system is faster than a 3800+.

And if you have a good stepping of the AMD Venice, then you can easily touch 2.6-2.7 ghz without endangering your processor.

Of course, one of the most common statements is that by overclocking, you are damaging your hardware. This is true only partly. If you overclock decently without feeding in too much volts and making sure the temps are under control, your CPU can live forever.

It is a risk only if you dont know what you are doing. And even then, it is pretty hard to actually burn a CPU. And in most cases, if you do end up damaging your CPU within the warranty period, you can claim a replacement under warranty. It is near impossible to say that a CPU died due to extreme or foolish overclocking.

Last edited by Nikhilb2008 : 21st December 2006 at 02:46.
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Old 21st December 2006, 08:08   #43
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Whoever says that AMD's overheat on overclocking has either never used it or is Bullsh*ting.
I have a dual core 3800+ X2 and have overclocked it to 2.4 Ghz (from 2.0 GHZ) on stock voltage(1.25 V) and on stock cooling.
The temperature difference was about 5 degrees. My stock temperatures are about 32-35 degrees, so the max temps were about 40 degrees.
Intels on the other hand overclock better then AMD's but are hotter. My friend has had some experiences with his Pentium 4 HT 3.0 Ghz.
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Old 21st December 2006, 10:52   #44
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completely agree with nikhilb2008 very well explained
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Old 21st December 2006, 13:05   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
Whoever says that AMD's overheat on overclocking has either never used it or is Bullsh*ting.
I have a dual core 3800+ X2 and have overclocked it to 2.4 Ghz (from 2.0 GHZ) on stock voltage(1.25 V) and on stock cooling.
The temperature difference was about 5 degrees. My stock temperatures are about 32-35 degrees, so the max temps were about 40 degrees.
Intels on the other hand overclock better then AMD's but are hotter. My friend has had some experiences with his Pentium 4 HT 3.0 Ghz.
Intel's overclock better because the old ones were built for speed.

Intel got into this mhz race with themselves. While AMD concentrated on making the processors better, Intel started saying, they would make a 4 ghz proccy. They got jacked badly as they just couldnt manage the heat given out.

If you take an Intel P4 and use Liquid Nitrogen or Dry ICe or phase change cooling, you can take it to 5 ghz easily. But the thing is, an AMD ar 3.0 ghz will easily thrash an Intel at 5 ghz....

OF course, now with C2Ds, the situation has changed. The Intel proccies are waaay better even though they run slightly hotter than AMD X2s, the extra heat is worth it as they perform miles ahead

Last edited by Nikhilb2008 : 21st December 2006 at 13:06.
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