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Old 18th December 2015, 22:15   #1681
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I'm having two strange issues with my OM-D. May be I'm a novice user. Here are my questions:

1. When I have the SCP, the rear LCD goes automatically off after 2 seconds and it is a pain every time to half press the shutter to get the camera activated again. How could I change this?

2. As I was testing my camera in low light, the EVF shows everything bright but when I review the picture, they are pretty dark. When using the EVF, I could see the histogram peaks more towards the left which indicates that my picture is under exposed. Why does the EVF not show the under exposed image when I compose my shot? Is there any setting that I should enable? This is a serious concern to me!

Any clues?
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Old 18th December 2015, 22:34   #1682
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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hy do you keep buying and selling so much gear? Does it help you take better pictures, or do you just enjoy new kit all the time?
Primary reason is affordability and the need for owning a new gear. But there are actually sane reason to it. The technology advances sometime are really good and between 2012 and 2015 the sensor designs has grown big time.The current Sony 42MP sensor is setting some standard for few years where most of the manufacturers are forced to make those investments.

Mirrorless is also growing very fast and there are technological advances that can be ported into earlier models via Firmware. X-E1 and X-E2 of Fuji is an example. They made hardware improvements to improve AF etc and that never could be ported in X-E1. Now they completely lack a sensor that matches even the entry level options available from even DSLR's. By the way Fuji sensor are one of the best i have every used considering you dont have to shoot Raw EVER.

Olympus 5M I vs 5M II, you will clearly go the upgrade path if you had a 5M I because the 5MII is not just a minor update but a clear cut upgrade to 5m I.

For me more than body i try different lenses. And in US its easy to buy and sell and its actually cheaper than renting. For example in the last 1 year i have tried over 6 bodies and over 15-20 different lenses. All these with minimal amount of 50-100 dollars as a usage fee. To rent i would have spent over 1000 dollars on these different numbers.Indian Buy and Sell is at very starting stage. When it matures you will be happy to have that options.i would have never bought a lens that costs more than my car and yet i was able to do it for the fun of testing here and still sell it back. (Noctilux)

I constantly look for deals to try out different stuff. I now today have the Sony 135 with the adapter to test with Zeiss 135 APO F2 to choose between these two.In fact i have only A7s but want to sell it to fund for a A7RII to test these lenses and these lenses will be back on market after i finalize which one i like better. I guess its the flexibility to quickly update and the overall concept of looking at this buy and sell as renting paying a renting fee. None of these are investments except those L grade of pro lenses which go up in value. My Canon 0.95 is over 1000 dollars higher than what i paid for. That became an investment

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2. As I was testing my camera in low light, the EVF shows everything bright but when I review the picture, they are pretty dark. When using the EVF, I could see the histogram peaks more towards the left which indicates that my picture is under exposed. Why does the EVF not show the under exposed image when I compose my shot? Is there any setting that I should enable? This is a serious concern to me!
Check if you have enable simulation of exposure while using live view or EVF. If not you may have to enable that option. Other reason could be if you are using a lens that is not sending electronic signal for Aperture to the camera. The camera does not know what the settings are to simulate the exposure.

Histogram is the right way to expose and you are right there on the technique. Like the zeiss 135mm APO F2 Nikon version on the Sony with the adapter does not send this information. So i rely on Histogram as well as quick review of the pictures after you take them.

Last edited by VW2010 : 18th December 2015 at 22:38.
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Old 19th December 2015, 00:44   #1683
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I'm bemused! I took a couple of shots and here is a sample result. It almost looks like I took the picture with the lens cap on. The EVF and the LCD screen shows some amount of detail in the picture, but when I looked it up after importing it in my computer, this is how it looked!

Is there anything wierd happening with my camera? *** was that?
Attached Thumbnails
Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-pc180013.jpg  


Last edited by joe1980 : 19th December 2015 at 01:07.
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Old 19th December 2015, 01:31   #1684
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Sorry for chaining my post. If this was the true exposure, why would the EVF not tell me this true exposure while I was composing this shot? This is just not acceptable! I could end up trusting the EVF only to find later that most of my shots were under exposed! How to get around this.

With my NEX-6, the EVF showed me the actual true exposure while I was composing a shot. I thought this is the norm for all mirrorless cameras. This one just caught me out of the blue and I'm perplexed at what I see with the OM-D EM 5 Mark II!

The image above in my post was shot at 17mm focal length, 1/320 shutter speed, f3.2!

Last edited by joe1980 : 19th December 2015 at 01:37.
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Old 19th December 2015, 02:53   #1685
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

@joe

Can you check the S-OVF mode. This is simulated overlay of shadows and highlights. I wish i can play around with that camera Can you switch of Auto luminescence in the EVF settings and see if that helps. The intention of EVF is to give your brighter image to compose and shoot while you can use the live view to check exposure for the setting.

EVF is to enhance the view and its function is to actually show you that screen which ends by being dark in output.I feel its functioning as per the requirement.S-OVF simulates what your eyes see. So even then you are talking about what you visibly see with your eyes which cannot be matched when using HIGH ISO.

I would say check with your Live view on the exposure settings required, use the EVF to compose and shoot.
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Old 19th December 2015, 10:56   #1686
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Even the Live View shows exactly what I see in the EVF under low light. Both do not show me the true exposure which is a serious concern for me. I indeed switched off the EVF view boost but that did not help!
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Old 19th December 2015, 13:30   #1687
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Found the answer for you. I have a feeling you are in Manual exposure mode. In case the EV is lesser than -3 the camera caps at -3 and goes into image gain or boost to show you the screen. The camera assumes you are purposefully under exposing and you need help with boosted image to frame and shoot.

The blinkers and EV scale are your indicators in this case. The camera manufacture decided to keep it this way where +3 to -3 the exposure will be as available but above +3 and below -3 the camera will try to provide to exposure that will help you take a picture.

And it appears to happen in Manual mode but not in other Auto modes like A or Shutter priority.

The camera will not simulate exposure for those scenes below a metered -3 in the camera and hence you are ending up getting those dark images.

Your scale is between -3 and +3. This is intended camera feature.
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Old 19th December 2015, 15:15   #1688
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Found the answer for you. I have a feeling you are in Manual exposure mode. In case the EV is lesser than -3 the camera caps at -3 and goes into image gain or boost to show you the screen. The camera assumes you are purposefully under exposing and you need help with boosted image to frame and shoot..
That's like basic 101 before using a relatively advanced camera. Doesn't Olympus give a proper hard/soft copy manual, that new buyers can go through?
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Old 19th December 2015, 19:21   #1689
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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I have a feeling you are in Manual exposure mode.
No. I was trying this in shutter priority mode. You have your sony A7, what happens when you are in S or A mode and you increase or decrease the ISO. You see the exposure changes on your Live View and in EVF. It is sort of a WYSIWYG!

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
That's like basic 101 before using a relatively advanced camera. Doesn't Olympus give a proper hard/soft copy manual, that new buyers can go through?
There is the manual, but it is not so easy to find this setting. I had been to the shop today where I got this camera from. Even the guys at the shop could not figure this out. However, they told me that a representative from Olympus will be available on Monday and he should be in a position to help me out.

To all the guys that owns a OM-D EM 5 Mark II. Do you see the true exposure on your EVF and Live View screen when you change the ISO or the Aperture or the Shutter in either the A or S mode?

Last edited by joe1980 : 19th December 2015 at 19:36.
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Old 19th December 2015, 20:08   #1690
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Joe

In A or S mode since the shutter or Aperture is adjusted by the camera the exposure stays visible. For example a dark scene while increasing the aperture the shutter is going to go upto 30 sec and start blinking. Similarly for speed priority.

Only in Manual mode the true exposure shows where the image goes completely dark.

In S&A mode even if you change ISO the image is not going to be any brighter or darker. It may momentarily for a fraction of a second but the priority mode takes over and other parameters are adjusted or tried.

And in your Manual mode the behavior is restricted similar to A and P mode in Olympus. For Sony in Manual mode the expected behavior (your) is what happens.
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Old 19th December 2015, 20:36   #1691
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And in your Manual mode the behavior is restricted similar to A and P mode in Olympus. For Sony in Manual mode the expected behavior (your) is what happens.
I did not quite understand this statement. In Sony, with my NEX-6 in all the modes (P / A / S / M), the EVF and the Live View are truly WYSIWYG. This was awesome. If this is not available as a feature in the Olympus, I see this as a disadvantage!
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Old 19th December 2015, 22:44   #1692
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

MM understand. If its not happening withing the +3 to -3 Range in either of the mode, the camera could be defective.

The camera should be able to get to 90% of WYSIWYG as sometimes the actual exposure requirement in PASM could be over +3 or -3 and the camera can only handle the scene to normal exposure by Bulb or extended shutter opening in both modes.

For all other scenario you should see a preview. Can you shoot a video, take a picture of the view finder using a phone and the actual scene itself.

If its not showing this preview, the camera could be faulty.
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Old 19th December 2015, 23:57   #1693
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MM understand. If its not happening withing the +3 to -3 Range in either of the mode, the camera could be defective.

The camera should be able to get to 90% of WYSIWYG as sometimes the actual exposure requirement in PASM could be over +3 or -3 and the camera can only handle the scene to normal exposure by Bulb or extended shutter opening in both modes.

For all other scenario you should see a preview. Can you shoot a video, take a picture of the view finder using a phone and the actual scene itself.

If its not showing this preview, the camera could be faulty.
I understand that you are desperately trying to help me out, but I'm not sure if we are talking in the same lines. Pardon me if I did not convey my problem correctly!

So let me go over this step by step.

1. I set the camera in S mode

2. In this mode, I could control the ISO and the Shutter (I'm not using the Auto ISO)

3. The front dial on my OMD is used to control the exposure compensation, while the back dial controls the shutter (the dials are on the right hand side of the camera).

4. With a shutter speed of 1/320, f2.8 and an ISO of 100, the image is severely under exposed. In theory, the EVF and the Live View should reflect this under exposed image as-is, but it does not. The only indication that I get is the f2.8 indicator is blinking. The image as I view through the EVF and the Live View gives me a false impression that everything is bright and I would get a picture as I see through.

On my NEX-6, the WYSIWIG always showed me the truth, never mind which mode I'm in! But with the OMD, the WYSIWIG works only while I'm in the Manual mode. I did test another camera at the shop and even that behaves the same way. So I do not suspect any defect with the camera.

I would be interested to know what do the other OMD users have got to say about this?
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Old 20th December 2015, 01:19   #1694
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
On my NEX-6, the WYSIWIG always showed me the truth, never mind which mode I'm in! But with the OMD, the WYSIWIG works only while I'm in the Manual mode. I did test another camera at the shop and even that behaves the same way. So I do not suspect any defect with the camera.

I would be interested to know what do the other OMD users have got to say about this?
Well, I have to say your expectations are very different than what a typical dSLR photographer expects.

In a traditional dSLR with prism, when you look through the OVF, you will exactly see what you see with naked eyes. If you want to see the DOF of the chosen aperture, you have press the DOF preview button. But there is no way to see the exposure effect of aperture/shutter or ISO.

The OMD live view works similarly, because it is trying to give the same experience as optical view finder. Most OMD users are generally former dSLR users, so nobody really complains about it. It also reflects the effect of EV value, which is really neat.

Do I need WYSIWIG on the LVF? Not really. If the image is totally under exposed, I don't want to be staring at a blank screen. If the image is totally overexposed, I don't want to be staring at a whited out screen. I just want best possible view of the target, as in naked eye. That is what OMD gives, like any OVF. As long as one understands the exposure trinity and EV, it is clear what is happening.

The LVF should behave like OVF or naked eye when EV is zero. I don't understand how exposure WYSIWIG is important or useful.
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Old 20th December 2015, 01:37   #1695
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The LVF should behave like OVF or naked eye when EV is zero. I don't understand how exposure WYSIWIG is important or useful.
So what would then be the indication to me for my situation that I described above, which I repeat again:

1. Camera in S mode

2. ISO Low (100), f2.8 1/320 shutter speed.

How would I know that the resulting picture would be under exposed? Pardon me, I'm just learning to use my OM-D.
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