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Old 20th December 2015, 04:18   #1696
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Live view boost is an option. But i understand your request. Here is what Sony does.

1) First one S mode, with similar exposure condition but Simulation in Live view on EVF off

2) and 3) Now changing the setting to Simulation on

4) Same scene showing completely dark (As you wanted it)

5) Same scene with Aperture priority moves the shutter speed requirement to 1sec and now its bright again.

WYSIWYG

In Olympus you can try live view boost but i am not sure if this is the way its implemented.
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Old 20th December 2015, 09:49   #1697
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I guess in Olympus, the Live View boost is effective only in the Manual mode, though I'm yet to test this out. But at least I can see the changes happening to the EVF and Live View in manual mode when I change wither the Aperture, Shutter, ISO or the exposure compensation. I will test this again today be turning On the Live View boost which should then prevent the Live View and EVF changing to the actual exposure.
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Old 21st December 2015, 00:40   #1698
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Hmm... Another strange problem I faced today. I upgraded the firmware to 2.1 and the lens firmware to 1.2. Now for some strange reason, the Live View Boost is completely disabled! Any clues how I could have this enabled? I can't modify it anymore in the P / A / S / M mode. Not sure what is happening and yes, I'm tinkering a lot with this camera!

EDIT: I figured out what the problem was. The 2.1 firmware upgrade introduced the S-OVF feature and I had it turned On. I had to turn it Off to enable the Live View Boost!

Last edited by joe1980 : 21st December 2015 at 00:54.
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Old 21st December 2015, 09:02   #1699
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
1. Camera in S mode
2. ISO Low (100), f2.8 1/320 shutter speed.

How would I know that the resulting picture would be under exposed? Pardon me, I'm just learning to use my OM-D.
Very easy... In S or A mode, the camera tries to stick to the EV selected by you, which is generally 0. In S mode, you pick the speed, camera picks the aperture. If you had chosen auto-ISO, it will also pick the ISO. Now that you have kept ISO at 100, it can only play with aperture to maintain the EV selected by you. In the above case, it can't reduce the F-stop, so the aperture value keeping blinking to show it can't go any lower. In the A mode, speed value blinks if it can't change to maintain the selected EV.

In manual mode, the EV is not directly set by you. But you can select speed, aperture or ISO to get the EV to 0.

The A/S/M modes are for people who understand exposure and want to manipulate it. For the rest, Olympus provides auto mode as well as art and scene modes. My wife shot her entire Africa trip in scene mode, never having to worry about aperture or speed. She came out with better results than many other ladies who were carrying full frame dSLRs with huge telephoto lenses.

If you want to play with A/S/M, you really need to understand exposure without depending on WYSIWYG. None of the semi-pro or pro cameras provide WYSIWYG.
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Old 21st December 2015, 09:09   #1700
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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None of the semi-pro or pro cameras provide WYSIWYG.
Samurai, i think way its implemented in canon, nikon or sony is to provide a simulation of the exposure where you do get WYSIWYG.

Even the sony pictures i provided above shows when you select simulation the exposure gives an approximation if not exact way it looks.

On the other hand M Mode gives almost WYSIWYG exposure. I think olympus did what many end up using anyway between -3 and +3.

And if anyone is shooting in ASM mode, one can assume they understand the concept of EV scale as well overall exposure and they probably need the OVF/EVF for framing than exposure.
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Old 21st December 2015, 09:26   #1701
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Samurai, i think way its implemented in canon, nikon or sony is to provide a simulation of the exposure where you do get WYSIWYG.
Most pros or even semi-pros still use OVF, which has no WYSIWYG. So I would be very surprised if their LV does WYSIWYG in A/S/M mode. Thankfully OMD doesn't.

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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
On the other hand M Mode gives almost WYSIWYG exposure. I think olympus did what many end up using anyway between -3 and +3.
The M mode in OMD has no WYSIWYG at all. Not sure how you are saying this.
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Old 21st December 2015, 11:01   #1702
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
So what would then be the indication to me for my situation that I described above, which I repeat again:

1. Camera in S mode

2. ISO Low (100), f2.8 1/320 shutter speed.

How would I know that the resulting picture would be under exposed? Pardon me, I'm just learning to use my OM-D.
Pardon me, but you are asking very basic questions :-)

1. Understand how exposure is a function of aperture, shutter speed, ISO and learn how to manipulate settings intuitively to get the exposure you want. Read, go to a workshop, practice.

2. In S mode: check in the OVF or screen, and reduce shutter speed till it shows that exposure is near 0 or whatever your targeted exposure is. This can be done in a 2 seconds if you practice enough.

3. Crude way in S mode: keep reducing shutter speed and taking shots, till the shot comes out alright.

Your problems have less to do with OM-D and more to do with lack of knowledge about how E = F(aperture, shutter speed, ISO), and how to get a good feel of approximate exposure to start with in the first place. Why be so dependent on the screen or WYSIWYG?

I use Live View (using the screen to take a shot) for max 4-5 shots a year, I prefer OVF for 99.9% of the shots. I learnt to play around with the settings and figure out exposure in Manual, A (Av), S (Tv) mode using a basic Canon point and shoot before I moved to a Nikon DSLR. If you get my point #1, you would be able to nail your shots whether you use Olympus or Canon or Nikon or whatever.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 21st December 2015 at 11:19.
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Old 21st December 2015, 11:37   #1703
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
Pardon me, but you are asking very basic questions :-)

2. In S mode: check in the OVF or screen, and reduce shutter speed till it shows that exposure is near 0 or whatever your targeted exposure is. This can be done in a 2 seconds if you practice enough.

Your problems have less to do with OM-D and more to do with lack of knowledge about how E = F(aperture, shutter speed, ISO), and how to get a good feel of approximate exposure to start with in the first place. Why be so dependent on the screen or WYSIWYG?
I have been shooting with a Sony NEX-6 since 3 years and I was under the impression that WYSIWYG is a default feature of all mirrorless cameras. The OM-D seems not to behave that way. If the shot is severely under exposed, the only indication for me to know is through the blinkies (F stop or Shutter speed, depending on which mode I'am in). The exposure meter reading does not show this. It just stays at what exposure compensation that I set. My Sony NEX-6 would tell me if the shot is under or over exposed through the exposure reading, but not the OM-D. So all the doubts that I had were not basic questions, but very specific questions about the OM-D. Of course I do understand the exposure triangle, but I just didn't know how the OM-D communicates this to me!

Last edited by joe1980 : 21st December 2015 at 11:41.
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Old 21st December 2015, 12:12   #1704
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
I have been shooting with a Sony NEX-6 since 3 years and I was under the impression that WYSIWYG is a default feature of all mirrorless cameras. The OM-D seems not to behave that way. If the shot is severely under exposed, the only indication for me to know is through the blinkies (F stop or Shutter speed, depending on which mode I'am in). The exposure meter reading does not show this. It just stays at what exposure compensation that I set. My Sony NEX-6 would tell me if the shot is under or over exposed through the exposure reading, but not the OM-D. So all the doubts that I had were not basic questions, but very specific questions about the OM-D. Of course I do understand the exposure triangle, but I just didn't know how the OM-D communicates this to me!
Hmm. Doesn't your camera provide accurate exposure information within +3 and -3 EV range?

You are talking about extreme exposure situations. If you can (intuitively or through trial and error e.g. during a longish exposure) come close to the right exposure in an extreme situation, that is within your camera's EV info readout range, your problems get solved right?

Instead of saying 'understanding the exposure triangle', maybe I should have used the word 'mastering'.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 21st December 2015 at 12:18.
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Old 21st December 2015, 14:17   #1705
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by joe1980 View Post
I have been shooting with a Sony NEX-6 since 3 years and I was under the impression that WYSIWYG is a default feature of all mirrorless cameras. !
I have been using my OMD for over three years and I would say yes, that's how it is for probably more then 99% of my shots. Unless, I'm doing real long exposures in which Live view function will do the trick for you.

I have read you posts, but I cant help but think there is something wrong with your camera, or with some of the settings you are using. I have never experienced like what you are seeing and I do a fair bit of night live/street photography. See example, this is how it looked, by and large, on my EVF on my E5, when I took the shot.

Jeroen

Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras-chandni-chowk.jpg
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Old 21st December 2015, 14:47   #1706
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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I have been using my OMD for over three years and I would say yes, that's how it is for probably more then 99% of my shots.
In what mode? joe1980 is asking for exposure WYSIWYG in A/S/M mode.
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Old 21st December 2015, 15:10   #1707
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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In what mode? joe1980 is asking for exposure WYSIWYG in A/S/M mode.

Probably 80% of my photography is in Aperture mode, 15% manual and the rest in S mode

I'm a fan of exposing to the left, so I usually dial in some -0.5 to -1 stop for better post processing. All visible through the EVF or on the display.

Jeroen
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Old 21st December 2015, 15:41   #1708
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
Probably 80% of my photography is in Aperture mode, 15% manual and the rest in S mode

I'm a fan of exposing to the left, so I usually dial in some -0.5 to -1 stop for better post processing. All visible through the EVF or on the display.
You are referring to how the screen goes darker or brighter when EV goes negative or positive.

I suspect joe is asking something else. If you leave the EV at 0, and then move the aperture to say F/16 while indoors, does your screen completely darken to reflect the underexposed sensor? This is the WYSIWYG he wants. In OMD it remains at same exposure no matter how much you turn the dial.
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Old 21st December 2015, 17:44   #1709
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You are referring to how the screen goes darker or brighter when EV goes negative or positive.

I suspect joe is asking something else. If you leave the EV at 0, and then move the aperture to say F/16 while indoors, does your screen completely darken to reflect the underexposed sensor? This is the WYSIWYG he wants. In OMD it remains at same exposure no matter how much you turn the dial.
So, assuming you are not using auto-iso and keep iso and shutter speed constant in manual mode:

1. Screen brightness changes if you use EV compensation?
2. Screen brightness does not change if you play around with aperture, keeping s and ISO constant?
3. Screen brightness changes only within the +3 to -3 EV range to reflect wysiwyg?

Last edited by nilanjanray : 21st December 2015 at 17:48.
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Old 21st December 2015, 17:50   #1710
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You are referring to how the screen goes darker or brighter when EV goes negative or positive.

I suspect joe is asking something else. If you leave the EV at 0, and then move the aperture to say F/16 while indoors, does your screen completely darken to reflect the underexposed sensor? This is the WYSIWYG he wants. In OMD it remains at same exposure no matter how much you turn the dial.
Well, when in A mode, of course when I go to F16 the shutter speed comes down too and the result on the screen remain the same. I actually also keep ISO on auto in 80% of my shots. (such as the shot in my previous post). So whilst I dial down the aperture the shutter speed and ISO will compensate. (Within a certain bandwith of course). The only way to adjust is by means of EV.

Let me check tonight what happens when you're on manual, I would expect the screen to darken, would it not?

Jeroen
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