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Old 21st July 2017, 21:43   #1936
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Again most EVFs even the best ones can never avoid the lag completely especially in low light where it also turns grainy. But I expect this technology to only get better. It has its advantages like focus peaking for use with MF glass which I haven't seen in any DSLR yet. So if you plan to use a lot of adapted old MF glass, EVF with assisted focusing is the way to go.
I bought the Sony a6000 rather than something smaller (absolutely did not want anything bigger!) largely for the viewfinder. I agree that it is very grainy in low light. And I don't use it nearly as much as I expected to. Perhaps the EVF is not as good as I expected, but the LCD is better than I expected!

Focus-peaking is there on the LCD too. Although, just today, as I was trying (with only moderate success) to focus on one small spot) I found it clearer and easier in the view finder than on the screen. Had not noticed that before, but then, I am usually trying to focus on faces rather than bees!
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Old 21st July 2017, 21:58   #1937
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I just don't like small camera ergonomics. I prefer as many direct controls as possible, and the ability to configure as per my preferences.
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Old 21st July 2017, 22:59   #1938
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I just don't like small camera ergonomics. I prefer as many direct controls as possible, and the ability to configure as per my preferences.
Direct controls are not an issue. Most enthusiast mirroless models have direct controls for most functions. Only the smallest ones or the entry level models have functions hidden in menus for most common operations. Like i said not all of them have bad ergonomics but yes I agree someone used to a DSLR will be frustrated to begin with.
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Old 21st July 2017, 23:05   #1939
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It is not just a question of direct controls, but also of easy to access controls.

How about the ability to configure 3 different AF settings, and use them at the press of a button?

Anyway. I know what I exactly want
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Old 21st July 2017, 23:18   #1940
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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It is not just a question of direct controls, but also of easy to access controls.

How about the ability to configure 3 different AF settings, and use them at the press of a button?
Not a problem on the OMD or the Pen F. The functions of just about all the buttons and dials can be freely configured. I use different AF settings at the touch of a button on my Olympus.

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Old 21st July 2017, 23:27   #1941
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Not a problem on the OMD or the Pen F. The functions of just about all the buttons and dials can be freely configured. I use different AF settings at the touch of a button on my Olympus.

Jeroen
Well, since this is a mirrorless forum, I don't want to start getting into AF or responsiveness or subject isolation at longer focal lengths. Bit I am talking about wildlife.
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Old 21st July 2017, 23:58   #1942
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Well, since this is a mirrorless forum, I don't want to start getting into AF or responsiveness or subject isolation at longer focal lengths. Bit I am talking about wildlife.
Agree, no need to as the latest mirrorless kit is en par with any DSLR these days.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 01:03   #1943
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Agree, no need to as the latest mirrorless kit is en par with any DSLR these days.
Jeroen, unless you shoot moving creatures using long focal lengths, a lot, in different conditions, you are talking theoritically, looking at paper specs. You wouldn't even know the nuances and pros and cons re different choices.

Show me your wildlife and nature photos, and I will get where you are coming from. Till then, let's not extrapolate skill in/understanding of one genre to needs in another.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 01:16   #1944
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Jeroen, unless you shoot moving creatures using long focal lengths, a lot, in different conditions, you are talking theoritically, looking at paper specs. You wouldn't even know the nuances and pros and cons re different choices.

Show me your wildlife and nature photos, and I will get where you are coming from. Till then, let's not extrapolate skill in/understanding of one genre to needs in another.

Ah, so you agree then!
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Old 22nd July 2017, 06:35   #1945
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Ah, so you agree then!
Perhaps my previous comment appeared to be more aggressive than I had intended it to be.

Anyway, mirrorless is the future. Today mirrorless is preferable for almost all genres. But still not all. If I were going hiking or traveling I would prefer a mirrorless, mainly for size, IBIS etc. But not on safaris.

The tipping point should come soon, as Canikon get serious about mirrorless, and make the mirrorless offerings compatible with DSLR lenses, lighting etc.

India is a growth market for DSLRs. But there should be a big market opportunity to tap into the demographic dividend with simple mirrorless offerings that make photography less complicated. And make the 'smartphone to high quality camera' transition less steep than it is currently.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 12:21   #1946
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Perhaps my previous comment appeared to be more aggressive than I had intended it to be.
Thanks, appreciate that

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Anyway, mirrorless is the future. Today mirrorless is preferable for almost all genres. But still not all. If I were going hiking or traveling I would prefer a mirrorless, mainly for size, IBIS etc. But not on safaris.
Fair enough.

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India is a growth market for DSLRs. But there should be a big market opportunity to tap into the demographic dividend with simple mirrorless offerings that make photography less complicated. And make the 'smartphone to high quality camera' transition less steep than it is currently.
I don’t see mirrorless cameras as simple cameras perse. Of course, it depends a bit on the type and any camera can be put on full auto of course. In fact I’m pretty sure the vast majority of DSLR owners havent got a clue and they lug their expensive and heavy camera around permanently set to auto.

But if I take my OMD E5 mk2 for instance. The Olympus manual is several hundred pages. And is not actually particularly good at all. So for all my cameras I would typically invest in a proper 3rd party manual such as for instance written by Gary Friedman. Some 500 pages really helping to understand how your camera works. See http://www.friedmanarchives.com/eboo...ex.htm#Olympus

When it comes to manuals I’m a real nerd. I will actually read it all, with my camera next to my. Actually trying every setting, endless fiddling. Very enjoyable.

Some of this stuff is complicated and as I don’t use each and every function every day, I often refer back to the manual. If I know I might go on a certain shoot, I often look up the respective chapters the night before.

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Old 22nd July 2017, 13:58   #1947
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Well, since this is a mirrorless forum, I don't want to start getting into AF or responsiveness or subject isolation at longer focal lengths. Bit I am talking about wildlife.
I too shoot mostly wild life with my Nikons and some long lenses and yes Phase detect is still better than contrast detect AF for most situations where subjects move. But nikon has shown what a hybrid AF in the Nikon 1 can do and now Sony is a real competitor in the Nikon and Canon sports and wildlife domination with its new products. It's only a matter of time and even Nikon a developing a new mirrorless line so exciting times ahead.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 15:33   #1948
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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I too shoot mostly wild life with my Nikons and some long lenses and yes Phase detect is still better than contrast detect AF for most situations where subjects move. But nikon has shown what a hybrid AF in the Nikon 1 can do and now Sony is a real competitor in the Nikon and Canon sports and wildlife domination with its new products. It's only a matter of time and even Nikon a developing a new mirrorless line so exciting times ahead.
Yes, Nikon will be launching, perhaps next year. And Sony will come up with long lenses. Things will get interesting.

Re the India market: Canon and Nikon do close to 1200 crores each, per year, from photography. How much would Sony and Olympus be selling?

Edit: Sony should aggressively target the professionals, the influencers.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 22nd July 2017 at 15:36.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 17:36   #1949
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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But if I take my OMD E5 mk2 for instance. The Olympus manual is several hundred pages.
Ha Ha, that's nothing! The Sony [a6nnn] manual is... Oh wait, What manual?

There isn't one. There's a single sheet with hints about the focus modes, and that's it. Search for it, and one can find a sort-of by-item online reference (it is downloadable) but it is of the Microsoft-manual standard (By which I mean, eg: New Line: this inserts a new line) and useless to a beginner.

I am also a bit of a nerd, and tend to enjoy reading the f[ine] manual. In fact, I try to do it before making any major technical purchase, as manuals are a lot more honest about what a device/machine can do, and how easy or not it is, than any advertising literature.

Thankfully, there is the internet, and any number of discussions, articles, videos etc on using these cameras. And those third-party reference books, one of which I am getting around to buying.

(For completeness, or pedantry, or whatever, yes, there is an on-camera help system which might, for instance, give some sort of slight clue about what some obscure-looking menu item actually does. It is not entirely useless when first navigating those weird Sony menus. But the button soon gets re-assigned to something more useful)

.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 22nd July 2017 at 17:45.
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Old 23rd July 2017, 00:39   #1950
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Ha Ha, that's nothing! The Sony [a6nnn] manual is... Oh wait, What manual?

There isn't one. There's a single sheet with hints about the focus modes, and that's it. Search for it, and one can find a sort-of by-item online reference (it is downloadable) but it is of the Microsoft-manual standard (By which I mean, eg: New Line: this inserts a new line) and useless to a beginner.

I am also a bit of a nerd, and tend to enjoy reading the f[ine] manual. In fact, I try to do it before making any major technical purchase, as manuals are a lot more honest about what a device/machine can do, and how easy or not it is, than any advertising literature.

Thankfully, there is the internet, and any number of discussions, articles, videos etc on using these cameras. And those third-party reference books, one of which I am getting around to buying.

.

Still, it's a funny old world. We buy thousands of dollars of high tech kit. With no or little manual. Then we shell out even more money to buy the damn manual!
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