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Old 23rd July 2017, 01:50   #1951
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by Jeroen View Post
... ... ... Then we shell out even more money to buy the damn manual!
It is a trend that began with software, I think. First, manuals; then manuals on CD; then, look, go and buy your own book, we're not writing one!
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Old 24th July 2017, 20:19   #1952
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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It is a trend that began with software, I think. First, manuals; then manuals on CD; then, look, go and buy your own book, we're not writing one!
It is up to the photographer to understand the nuances of a camera, whether or not the manufacturer enables such understanding. That should be part of the decision criteria :-)

Having said that, it is inexcusable to not provide consumer and expert guidance. I would welcome a detailed, and relevant, 500 page manual than a typical consumer electronic manual catering to newbies.

I will again open a can of worms. I have felt the need for a smaller kit when hiking and traveling. But then again, I don't seen ANY reason to go for mirrorless - yet - apart from a smaller form factor and weight. Which are very very important factors, agreed. But then one is paying a premium for that. What about support, in India? Let's not extrapolate support infra in US or Europe or Japan without thinking about who will fix a lens or body - how reliably, how fast - when something goes wrong. What about resale value and time to sell? E.g. when one is upgrading?

Is Sony up to it? Who else is up to it in India?
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Old 24th July 2017, 22:24   #1953
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Originally Posted by nilanjanray View Post
It is up to the photographer to understand the nuances of a camera, whether or not the manufacturer enables such understanding. That should be part of the decision criteria :-)
Well... My OM2 has, what... film speed fixed by whatever film one loaded unless one is a real geek photographer, focus, aperture and shutter speed. Anyone who needs to know how to combine those into a photograph, should, I agree, buy a book on photography (updated: use the internet). Anyone who knows even beginner basics could just pick up the camera and use it. How different could equivalent models of Olympus, Pentax, Nikon, etc be in that day and age? Repeating myself
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My OM2 has, what... film speed, fixed by whatever film one loaded, unless one is a real geek photographer, focus, aperture and shutter speed ...
and the Sony a6000 has twenty-four pages of menus. So, whilst I would welcome a chapter or two of if you want to take pictures like this, this is what you do, which is what the single sheet on focus modes sort-of is, I would absolutely agree with
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... it is inexcusable to not provide consumer and expert guidance. I would welcome a detailed, and relevant, 500 page manual
Right. Don't buy the a6000 series, then. By the way, do the Sony DSLRs have a proper manual?
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I will again open a can of worms. I have felt the need for a smaller kit when hiking and traveling. But then again, I don't seen ANY reason to go for mirrorless - yet - apart from a smaller form factor and weight.
I think that, if you are used to the bulk and weight of a DSLR, which you obviously are, you have no reason at all to go mirrorless unless or until it offers you positive technology over and above your SLRs.

They say change is good, but I say good change is good, and change for no good reason is not good. /philosophy

As to size and weight, would have thought that, to a photographer travelling with anything more than one or two modest lenses, the weight of the camera is but a small consideration. Yes, for me: the DSLR-size superzoom has spent most of its life on the shelf, whereas the a6000 goes out with me. Not every-day-in-the-bag like a compact, but I don't hesitate to take it to concerts etc. I think I'll be much happier with its weight when it eventually meets nature too. Slung over my shoulder with a single lens, which is not how, if I may call you this, real photographers, especially in specialist genres, do it.

For me, the choice was mirrorless or compact, not DSLR or mirrorless.

(But it's fun to think that I could now spend just as much on lenses, etc, even though I almost certainly won't. Heck, the OM2 only ever had its single, standard lens over the years that I used it.)
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What about support, in India? Let's not extrapolate support infra in US or Europe or Japan without thinking about who will fix a lens or body - how reliably, how fast - when something goes wrong. What about resale value and time to sell? E.g. when one is upgrading?

Is Sony up to it? Who else is up to it in India?
Don't know, Would someone care to rank the camera big names for A-S-S?
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Old 24th July 2017, 22:58   #1954
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Well... My OM2 has, what... film speed fixed by whatever film one loaded unless one is a real geek photographer, focus, aperture and shutter speed. Anyone who needs to know how to combine those into a photograph, should, I agree, buy a book on photography (updated: use the internet). Anyone who knows even beginner basics could just pick up the camera and use it. How different could equivalent models of Olympus, Pentax, Nikon, etc be in that day and age? Repeating myself
and the Sony a6000 has twenty-four pages of menus.
I have only read Nikon manuals end to end. And a few Canon sections focusing on metering and AF. Haven't seen Sony or Oly. But even for Nikon, important stuff are hidden somewhere, with just perhaps a line - more like an afterthought - mentioning a critical thing. E.g. if one wants to focus somewhere, and meter using something else, and then recompose (Nikon bodies allow the choice of multiple focus points for metering, non-highend Canon bodies force you to use the central focus point for spot metering afaik) - basically focus + meter + recompose - then one can't use matrix metering mode. Now I must have skipped that in the manual, but I found that on the net a few years back. Then went back to the manual, read carefully, and found that one sentence.

Camera manufacturers have been quite complacent, compared to the speed at which other electronic products have been evolving.

Sony and Olympus have done a great job re pushing the envelope re paper specs and features. Nikon is (was) confused. Though something very interesting (which I want to buy) is coming in the next few days And Canon is still trying to milk its market leader position and offering inferior options. The sensor in the new 6D Mk2 is an old one, not so good in terms of dynamic range as the 5D Mk4 or 80D. They must have had an old stock of sensors they thought they could get rid of. Instead of using the newer sensors manufacturered in the new plant. These companies (DSLR cos) are being run by bean counters than visionaries or innovators.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 24th July 2017 at 23:10.
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