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Old 23rd July 2017, 01:50   #1951
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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... ... ... Then we shell out even more money to buy the damn manual!
It is a trend that began with software, I think. First, manuals; then manuals on CD; then, look, go and buy your own book, we're not writing one!
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Old 24th July 2017, 20:19   #1952
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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It is a trend that began with software, I think. First, manuals; then manuals on CD; then, look, go and buy your own book, we're not writing one!
It is up to the photographer to understand the nuances of a camera, whether or not the manufacturer enables such understanding. That should be part of the decision criteria :-)

Having said that, it is inexcusable to not provide consumer and expert guidance. I would welcome a detailed, and relevant, 500 page manual than a typical consumer electronic manual catering to newbies.

I will again open a can of worms. I have felt the need for a smaller kit when hiking and traveling. But then again, I don't seen ANY reason to go for mirrorless - yet - apart from a smaller form factor and weight. Which are very very important factors, agreed. But then one is paying a premium for that. What about support, in India? Let's not extrapolate support infra in US or Europe or Japan without thinking about who will fix a lens or body - how reliably, how fast - when something goes wrong. What about resale value and time to sell? E.g. when one is upgrading?

Is Sony up to it? Who else is up to it in India?
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Old 24th July 2017, 22:24   #1953
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It is up to the photographer to understand the nuances of a camera, whether or not the manufacturer enables such understanding. That should be part of the decision criteria :-)
Well... My OM2 has, what... film speed fixed by whatever film one loaded unless one is a real geek photographer, focus, aperture and shutter speed. Anyone who needs to know how to combine those into a photograph, should, I agree, buy a book on photography (updated: use the internet). Anyone who knows even beginner basics could just pick up the camera and use it. How different could equivalent models of Olympus, Pentax, Nikon, etc be in that day and age? Repeating myself
Quote:
My OM2 has, what... film speed, fixed by whatever film one loaded, unless one is a real geek photographer, focus, aperture and shutter speed ...
and the Sony a6000 has twenty-four pages of menus. So, whilst I would welcome a chapter or two of if you want to take pictures like this, this is what you do, which is what the single sheet on focus modes sort-of is, I would absolutely agree with
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... it is inexcusable to not provide consumer and expert guidance. I would welcome a detailed, and relevant, 500 page manual
Right. Don't buy the a6000 series, then. By the way, do the Sony DSLRs have a proper manual?
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I will again open a can of worms. I have felt the need for a smaller kit when hiking and traveling. But then again, I don't seen ANY reason to go for mirrorless - yet - apart from a smaller form factor and weight.
I think that, if you are used to the bulk and weight of a DSLR, which you obviously are, you have no reason at all to go mirrorless unless or until it offers you positive technology over and above your SLRs.

They say change is good, but I say good change is good, and change for no good reason is not good. /philosophy

As to size and weight, would have thought that, to a photographer travelling with anything more than one or two modest lenses, the weight of the camera is but a small consideration. Yes, for me: the DSLR-size superzoom has spent most of its life on the shelf, whereas the a6000 goes out with me. Not every-day-in-the-bag like a compact, but I don't hesitate to take it to concerts etc. I think I'll be much happier with its weight when it eventually meets nature too. Slung over my shoulder with a single lens, which is not how, if I may call you this, real photographers, especially in specialist genres, do it.

For me, the choice was mirrorless or compact, not DSLR or mirrorless.

(But it's fun to think that I could now spend just as much on lenses, etc, even though I almost certainly won't. Heck, the OM2 only ever had its single, standard lens over the years that I used it.)
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What about support, in India? Let's not extrapolate support infra in US or Europe or Japan without thinking about who will fix a lens or body - how reliably, how fast - when something goes wrong. What about resale value and time to sell? E.g. when one is upgrading?

Is Sony up to it? Who else is up to it in India?
Don't know, Would someone care to rank the camera big names for A-S-S?
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Old 24th July 2017, 22:58   #1954
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Well... My OM2 has, what... film speed fixed by whatever film one loaded unless one is a real geek photographer, focus, aperture and shutter speed. Anyone who needs to know how to combine those into a photograph, should, I agree, buy a book on photography (updated: use the internet). Anyone who knows even beginner basics could just pick up the camera and use it. How different could equivalent models of Olympus, Pentax, Nikon, etc be in that day and age? Repeating myself
and the Sony a6000 has twenty-four pages of menus.
I have only read Nikon manuals end to end. And a few Canon sections focusing on metering and AF. Haven't seen Sony or Oly. But even for Nikon, important stuff are hidden somewhere, with just perhaps a line - more like an afterthought - mentioning a critical thing. E.g. if one wants to focus somewhere, and meter using something else, and then recompose (Nikon bodies allow the choice of multiple focus points for metering, non-highend Canon bodies force you to use the central focus point for spot metering afaik) - basically focus + meter + recompose - then one can't use matrix metering mode. Now I must have skipped that in the manual, but I found that on the net a few years back. Then went back to the manual, read carefully, and found that one sentence.

Camera manufacturers have been quite complacent, compared to the speed at which other electronic products have been evolving.

Sony and Olympus have done a great job re pushing the envelope re paper specs and features. Nikon is (was) confused. Though something very interesting (which I want to buy) is coming in the next few days And Canon is still trying to milk its market leader position and offering inferior options. The sensor in the new 6D Mk2 is an old one, not so good in terms of dynamic range as the 5D Mk4 or 80D. They must have had an old stock of sensors they thought they could get rid of. Instead of using the newer sensors manufacturered in the new plant. These companies (DSLR cos) are being run by bean counters than visionaries or innovators.

Last edited by nilanjanray : 24th July 2017 at 23:10.
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Old 12th December 2017, 19:58   #1955
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Any Sony A6300 users around? I am looking at it for the small form factor and video capabilities. Planning to get it from the US, as it seems to be retailing for ~55k, compared to ~70k here. I understand, might not get the warranty coverage.

Any personal experiences to share?
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Old 12th December 2017, 20:49   #1956
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

Dry Ice

What you looking at?

Why not a6500. 5 axis stabilization on that form factor is gift and a must.

A6300 is a great camera but moving to a6500 is worth it.
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Old 12th December 2017, 21:03   #1957
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Any Sony A6300 users around?
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Originally Posted by VW2010 View Post
Why not a6500. 5 axis stabilization on that form factor is gift and a must.
A6300 is a great camera but moving to a6500 is worth it.
I wanted to suggest that. But thats huge price delta. 6500 is currently beyond 100K.
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Old 12th December 2017, 21:12   #1958
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Dry Ice

What you looking at?

Why not a6500. 5 axis stabilization on that form factor is gift and a must.

A6300 is a great camera but moving to a6500 is worth it.
Like I said, looking at the video capabilities and the small size. Interchangeable lens is good to have! I may add a prime later on.

6500 is out of budget for me at the moment.


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I wanted to suggest that. But thats huge price delta. 6500 is currently beyond 100K.
Exactly. The difference even if I get them from US is not less than $200.

From the video reviews that I have seen, it doesn't make a huge difference anyway.
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Old 12th December 2017, 21:18   #1959
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Exactly. The difference even if I get them from US is not less than $200.
Please check on Olympus systems too. (I dont know about the video part though). Check with @ Samurai.

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From the video reviews that I have seen, it doesn't make a huge difference anyway.
It definitely is a huge advantage. And hence the price difference.
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Old 12th December 2017, 22:12   #1960
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Please check on Olympus systems too. (I dont know about the video part though). Check with @ Samurai.

It definitely is a huge advantage. And hence the price difference.
It does, but for my use case where it will mostly be on a tripod, I am thinking, it shouldn't be such a deal breaker. Plus the Premier Pro's warp stabiliser smooths out minor imperfections really well.
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Old 12th December 2017, 23:40   #1961
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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Like I said, looking at the video capabilities and the small size. Interchangeable lens is good to have! I may add a prime later on.

6500 is out of budget for me at the moment.
I was in a similar dilemma, and ultimately it came down to Olymps OMD-EM10-MarkII and Panasonic G85. Chucked out A6300 because it has no inbuilt stabilisation and relies on the lens to do it.

Olympus has classic retro looks and that swayed me heavily in its direction. Its also more compact of the 2, and cheaper too.

On the other hand, G85 while having a slightly more bulky body, has 4K video recording.

Between looks vs 4K, I chose 4K as that is the future. Since then have been very happy with the choice.

However, recently Olympus announced OMD-EM10-MarkIII which retains similar design and adds 4K. I believe that should be the most rounded choice for you. Priced at $700, it fits well in your budget too!

Also, if ordering in USA, order from BHPhotoVideo online. They have pretty good prices and save you further 7-8% from taxes depending on where you are ordering.

Last edited by autorahul : 12th December 2017 at 23:54. Reason: Added pricing information
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Old 12th December 2017, 23:44   #1962
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

I have been using the Olympus OMD EM 5 Mark II and I'm completely satisfied with the quality of pictures I get with this one. You should certainly consider the OMD as an option! Not sure about the price difference between the a6300 and the OMD EM-5!
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Old 12th December 2017, 23:59   #1963
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

When I bought my a6000 earlier this year, it cleared out my spendable savings. the a6300 was not in reach, let alone the a6500.

Six months later, though, and having discovered the interesting experiences of using a lens from a camera I bought decades (more than three) ago, and a cheap all-manual lens from China, I wish I had waited a few months. If your hands are young and your hold is rock steady, or if you can afford to buy all Sony OSS lenses, fine. My hands are not, and that in-body stabilisation is really a dream.

There are two lenses on my shopping list. Together, I think they cost more than an a6500. They are Sony OSS lenses.
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Old 13th December 2017, 00:09   #1964
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Default Re: Mirrorless or EVIL Cameras

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I have been using the Olympus OMD EM 5 Mark II and I'm completely satisfied with the quality of pictures I get with this one. You should certainly consider the OMD as an option! Not sure about the price difference between the a6300 and the OMD EM-5!
Likewise, I have had my EM5 Mk II for a couple of years. Very happy with it. Before that an EM-5. And I have the Pen F too.

I consider the EM %, Mk II a real workhorse. It can handle most kinds of photography very satisfactorily. And as Autorahul, I do like that retro look. This is a camera that still looks like a camera. Of course, photographically speaking it doesnít matter, but it matters to me and that is all what counts. I really donít like the shape of the current Cannon line up,

Also, the pro lenses are very very good. Not cheap, but you get what you pay for!
With my two zoom lenses, 12-40mm and 40-150 at 2.8 I can cover nearly everything. Thatís 24-300mm in DSLR speak. Also the OMD and the pro lenses are fully dust and water proof.

Jeroen
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Old 13th December 2017, 00:31   #1965
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Likewise, I have had my EM5 Mk II for a couple of years. Very happy with it. Before that an EM-5. And I have the Pen F too.

I consider the EM %, Mk II a real workhorse. It can handle most kinds of photography very satisfactorily. And as Autorahul, I do like that retro look. This is a camera that still looks like a camera. Of course, photographically speaking it doesnít matter, but it matters to me and that is all what counts. I really donít like the shape of the current Cannon line up,

Also, the pro lenses are very very good. Not cheap, but you get what you pay for!
With my two zoom lenses, 12-40mm and 40-150 at 2.8 I can cover nearly everything. Thatís 24-300mm in DSLR speak. Also the OMD and the pro lenses are fully dust and water proof.

Jeroen
I just have the 12-40mm lens. But sometimes I felt that I needed a tele lens but I use my legs to cover that up! I keep saying this - The OMD EM 5 MK II is a gem of a camera!
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